Ok, so its bad enough that we have to resort to fish of fury with our transported aspect due to our inability to assault out of the serps and falcs, but if the rumours are true then skimmers will become a lot more vulnerable in the new rule set to be released next year. You will now only count as obscured if you moved over 6" (some forums say 12"!!!!)AND roll a 4+!! This is gonna make the mech eldar cry and its really annoying for my paper thin Vypers as they are quite vulnerable enough thankyou! this is, if true a real pain for both the bright and the Dark branches of our race. I hope this is not as totally balance wiping as it seems it will be. Any updates and opinions that can ease my pain will be greatfully accepted, as I am at the moment quite glad I use two wraithlords as a default, but I loves me my Falcon and Vypers,sniff, whimper! :(

Ive heard the same rumours myself and if you think elder are getting nerfed look at my poor DE.
With everything AV10 or 11 im going to be hurting very badly.
At least elder get an AV of 12 on some things and some decent upgrades so you don't crash and die horribly when immobilised.

My speeding raiders will just turn into fast food.
and its not like my troops have any sort of decent save at all, the DE concept is it realize on speed, and if that protection is taken away it will just kill them

If they do this then they had better have some special rule in the new DE codex that makes up for it.

Its almost to the stage where if you don't play SM then don't bother playing.

Amen brother testify!
Do we all want to be MonKeigh? What is the point of humanity versus the xenos easy beats? where is the fun? Nids, Imperials,Chaos, Orks will be the masters of the Galaxy. Poor Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar, we got nerfed boys n' girls.

the only good thing about i suppose is that the new 40k rule book is rumoured to be coming out before the DE codex so hopefully that will help. but i doubt it knowing GW

I'll probably drop out of the hobby very soon. I will continue to play, but under the 4th edition only, and under the current codex editions only (unless the next Necron codex is actually an advancement and not a piece of arse whipe.)

If this new rumour is true, it will be impossible for Eldar players to survive on the battlefield. It is hard enough as it is these days using transports effectively.

Well at least it's still only a "rumour" at the moment. so hope fully it's just someone's idea of a joke.

But im with you Cal, if elder/darkelder lose the special vehicle rules for moving fast then whats the point of taking them. GW may as well just turn every army into space marines.

the othe rumour ive heard is that evey one will be able to "fleet of foot"

well they have already given evey bike unit the "turbo boost" special rule which used to be a "darkelder only" abiltiy. so taking that into account why wouldn't give everyone fleet of foot.

Not exactly Fleet of foot more like forced movement. Except for those units who had a Fleet variant. Seems a + point.

They might change the Skimmer thing but than they might also change something about opentopped.

I'll be wondering what they plan on doing with the Dark Eldar (T8 Talos/ usefull Mandrakes)

Still sounds like the new rule book will be a piece of toilet paper...

Only one Vehicle damage chart is another rumour I've heard, with the difference between penetrating and glancing hits are modifiers. I think this will make the rules clumsy, while the current rules for vehicles works fine.

Yeah, they may change the skimmer moving fast rule, and they may change open topped to balance it out too. But where does that leave the Craftworld Eldar, who are mostly closed topped vehicles?

I think the reason GW change rules to cr*p is a way of directing sales. The company is in the poo due to the failure of the Lord of the Rings franchise, and now they are desperately trying to make more money to keep themselves above water. This means jacking up prices, and directing sales by changing rules so that people will only buy the models GW want them to. They don't actually care about the gamers anymore at all, they care only about profit.

That said, let us try keep this to a rules rumours discussion for the most part.

If all armies are allowed to fleet, or are 'forced to move' whatever, towards the nearest enemy models, that still means that they can get to enemy lines as fast as we can! This kills our individuality completely, but we can't get any faster because our vehicles are hunks of junk. Additionally, other armies don't even need fleet of foot to make them better and neither will it make the overall game more enjoyable.

Cal

yes it used to be about the gamers and what would be best for them now its just about the almighty $.
And i can't see why they are still pushing the LOTR stuff anyway. they had 3 movies in 3 years to keep people interested and buying stuff, the movies finished a long time ago so of course interest is begining to wane, they should have done what they do to all the other games systems they brought out, just forget about it.

The game use to be for players of a certain age now it seems GW are trying to entice younger & younger players whilst ignoring it's mature players.. And while its good getting young people interested in the game, i believe they shouldn't be "dumbing" the game down just for them. With rules getting so simple that it's hardley challenging anymore.

And if a lot of individual armies special rules start becoming generic rules there will be absolutely no point in playing.

As Cal has said the LOTR isn't making them as much money any more and im guessing that maybe apocolypse didn't quite boost the sales as much as they hoped.

I choose to play DE for a reason and if they lose a lot of the special rules associated with them, or those rules become generic, ill have to seriously start looking for another gaming system.


And i believe that a lot of these rumours come from Warseer, and people then spread them to other online site's and unfortunately they have a tendacy to be fairly reliable.

bit remember people its still only a "RUMOUR" so fingers crossed.

I don't know why they are wanting younger players...older players are the ones with the more to spend. Although I guess it is because young kids are easier to hook on the pictures and hype...<_<

Of course Apocalypse didn't go as well as they had hoped. It was a dumb gaming system (in my own opinion), with models that were (though for the most part fairly impressive) way too expensive for gamers to even think about buying. The young kids couldn't afford it, and the older gamers saw straight through the ploy.

I think they're contracted for a certain number of years to continue making LotR, so they're forced to continue its manufacture. Plus the younger generations are probably drawn to it just as much as they might be to 40K or Fantasy.

Aahh i didn't realise they had been contracted to keep doing the LOTR stuff oh well.

Any ill be keeping my eyes and ears open around the traps for any more rumours that come up

But still Cal if the new rule book comes out next year before the Necron & DE codex, we might actually get a half decent codex for both. ;)

just think... pariahs with the necron specail rule
flayed ones with rending.
another troop choice.

To be honest I don't hate the current Necron codex. Although rending on Flayed Ones and Wraiths would be really cool, their points cost would either need to go up or another stat would have to come down as compromise. And though they kind of suck, I don't mind the Pariahs not being Necrons as it is fluffy...though if they were able to shoot through the Monolith portal that would make them a hell of a lot more popular.

Cal

yes ive never had any problems with the current Necron codex either. A few small changes rather than a lot would be benifical. Id still like a bit more variety with the troop choices though, thats my only real beef with it ATM.

Just been to Warseer for a look and pasted their rumour article here for eveyone to peruse at their leisure.



Since there isn't currently an open thread about it, I thought I'd start a compilation thread for discussion of the rumours of a 5th ed. 40k coming next year (with new starter box). I don't have any info or confirmation myself, I just wanted a thread people can go to to talk about (or possibly debunk) these rumours.

There have been a few rumblings about a rules revision in past months. There's also the fact that the studio don't appear to design codices for the 4th edition rules (at least where things like retinues are concerned). However, it's still possible that all this rumourage will never amount to anything. If you know more, spill the beans!

Story so far:

Shebnar said:
************************************************** *******
OK, I'm going to post these other rumours appeared on GW Tilea: the source is trustworthy.


- First of all, WH40K V Edition will see the light before summer 2008 (yes you read it right), just after the Codexaemons.
There's not much in the new edition that is going to be radically changed, the things which will be modified for sure are:

1) rules about vehicles
2) damage chart for vehicles (MAYBE we'll have one only chart for glancing and penetrating hits, with modifiers according to the weapon which scored the hit - note that this is an uncertain rumour)
3) rules about psychic powers
4) small variations on HtH combat

the source denied any further explaination.

It has been speculated that the new Starter Box will include SM and Orks (both in plastic).


Dosad said:
************************************************** *******

Things I've heard about 5th edition:

It will be released in 2008. I’ve been hinting at this in these forums for months now…I was told September/October, but maybe they are pushing it up for some reason. Maybe they are launching the new edition before they release the next supplement. Could have something to with the rules changes that they need the new system out before the next supplement.

The new starter box will be Orks vs. Marines. Like BfSP it will have two small but complete armies. The new technology lets them put so much more stuff on a sprue and I've heard you get TONS of stuff in this box. I expect a vehicle or two (those rumors of a plastic killa kan have been floating around for some time) but I have no info to say what the contents will be beyond Orks vs. Marines (What do you think they are making those plastic grots for?). As an Ork player I am so very excited about this box…

Rules wise I’ve heard that the vehicle damage chart will look like the Apocalypse one but for standard vehicles.

I’ve heard nothing of a nerf for skimmers or any other major changes to the vehicle system. But that just means my source hasn’t told me anything or may not know himself.

Two big changes I’ve heard about are changes to movement and (everyone wait for it…) changes to Rending! I posted these in a “rules idea” thread a few weeks back to see if anyone would notice…nobody did. I'm not going to go into detail now as I've been tourtured by the =I=nqusition before and do not wish to revist those dark places. But if you search for them, they are out there...posted as my own idea. (see how I do that? Like a f'n ninja!)

I’ve heard that Combat Patrol and Kill Team are gone from the rule book. They will make a reappearance as their own supplement in 2009 with expanded rules for "space hulk" and "Necromunda" style games.
They have been replaced with a much expanded mission system and campaign rules that are based off the Mighty Empires system for FB. I've heard that there are a few 40K specific tiles in the works. One being a hive-city tile.

Dark Eldar are next after Deamons, beyond that I have no clue.

That’s all I’ve got…well almost.

Dosadi

Sakura said:
************************************************** ********
Just a couple of things to add:

~Marching rule:
if your unit is like 12" away from an enemy or something you can run them like a fleet roll to get them in cover.

~Skimmers dont get glances if they move 12" but the vehicle damage rules change so I don't know how this means anything right now.

************************************************** ********

I said: all this stuff sounds like a bigger deal than 3rd/4th. Particularly changes to movement. Is it possible for troops to get generally faster without breaking the game balance of the 4th ed codices (1st turn charges and whatnot). Maybe changes to reserves and deployment (as in Apocalypse) will counteract this? Or maybe some of these changes won't turn out (like the S7 ignores armour saves rule that never was, for apoc)?


NEW!
Summary up to page 5:
Smokedog said (paraphrase)
************************************************** ********
Ivé heard that splitting fire on vehicles will be an option again... looks like they have been reading the 2nd ed rule book a lot recently....

BS 6,7 may now have some meaning gamewise

Mars said (essentially summary)
************************************************** ********

info that hasn't been mentioned yet (from what I've read):

- rending ignores armour/glances automaticly on a 6 to-wound/penetrate, instead of to-hit

- the forced march is basicly Fleet of Foot, but you can't use it within 12" of an enemy, and you can't move in the assault phase. units who actually have Fleet of Foot suffer none of these limits

But Brimstone said
************************************************** ********
Originally Posted by WarpWhisperer
Has anyone noticed that the suggested forced march rule appears to give the green light to pre-measuring? i.e. just 'checking' to see if I can march - oh dear, I can't, but now I know I can assault....

That's assuming the rumour as stated is correct which it isn't.

I think that running would be more like fleet but with added restrictions to still give 'fleet' models an advantage.

I don't see any changes for fleet to be honest more like restrictions on the run ability.


Atrum Angelus said
************************************************** ********

Before summer 2008? There will be no 5th Edition before July 2008. I promise you.


NEW: summary up to page 10
Brimstone on the box set:
************************************************** ********
Well I don't know that much about it except it should feature Marines vs Orks and will contain larger models than just pure infantry on both sides.

Also, Thylacine sent me this by PM:
************************************************** *********
No new rulebook next year, Shebnar made a wrong translation from Italian, mistook the interviewers question for the interviewees answer!



NEW: nothing new to p14 (lots of discussion about forced marching though)
Redshirts say 5th ed. isn't happening next year.

I think until any of this actually solidifys I'll keep my pennies in my piggybank. ;) I think a lot of the rumours over at warseer are wishful thinking and chinise whispers rather than actual changes that are needed to improve the game. The problem with this is that an improvement for some maybe a detriment for others. I really hope that 5ed does arrive soon because it will put newer players on a level playing field, er literally, with older players! The problem GW now faces is that anyone thinking of getting into 40k will, like me, hold on until the new ed comes out before spending any money. The result of potential players holding onto their money will force an acceleration of release, which may or may not be a good thing.

hmmmmm...frankly I would be very pleased if there was not a 5th edition released. None of the rules changes I've heard impress me terribly at all, the forced march and split tank fire particularly agrivating.

One interesting thing I read was that skimmers don't get nerfed as such, but have their own vehicle damage chart if they move over six inches. This could actually be a good thing, as it could make us more resiliant. But if we only get it on a 4+ it would make us a lot less resiliant...

Like I said, I personally hope that there will not be a 5th edition any time soon, but I think there will be simply due to the fact that the rumour has even been begun. And people have been pretty acurate so far on what books are about to be released.

Cal

Fascinating (Does best Spock eyebrow raise!) I am really interested in the variety of rumours, however I'm still nervous about our skimmers, and as I am building mech Tau, theirs as well. I do agree with the "pre measuring" scam that was mentioned, I hope that the GW bods work the kinks on that one! It looks very worrying as I can see imperials abusing the cr*p out of it (ie non fleeting peeps)
Bell of Lost Souls has a rumour mill that is also worth a look.
I also, slightly off topic (actually heaps!!) think that what I've seen of the new Ork models seem to be a retrograde step, compared to the last lot of releases. Just personal taste I guess. Oh and I really, really hope that the Librarians psychic hood gets a damn good nerfing, or there aint a lot of fun in being a psyker on the other side (read: point sink!)

Alot of this might also happening because of the leak of the Orc codex on line. Ive already seen 3 copies of the whole codex Orc printed out already. and im sure that will have impressed GW enormously. seeing as how it's not due for "official" release till January.

What i (and most other people) would like to see is an army building program come standard with each codex.
The more GW try to deny people the ease of using a PC to write up an army list, the more people try to circumvent it. as shown by the number of AB site around the place.
You would still need to take the book to tournaments or to your local club for playing games

This might be something good for us.

http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12763

PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT

For immediate release 3 December 2007
APPOINTMENT OF CHIEF EXECUTIVE

The Board of Games Workshop Group PLC (‘Games Workshop’ or the ‘Company’) is pleased to announce the appointment of Mark Wells to the Board as Chief Executive of the Company with immediate effect.

Mark joined Games Workshop in 2000 from Boots plc and has been Head of Sales at the Company since 2006.

Tom Kirby, who has been Chairman and Chief Executive of Games Workshop since 2000, will continue as Chairman of the Company.

Tom Kirby said: ‘Mark has the vision, ability and passion to lead Games Workshop in its next phase of growth. He not only understands Games Workshop’s business model and its special culture and spirit, but he is a strong advocate of the values that are so important to the Company.

‘Mark and I share the same vision for Games Workshop, and we have ambitious plans for growth and value creation. I trust Mark absolutely to do the right thing for the Company, our shareholders and our staff.’

No additional information should be disclosed under paragraph 9.6.13 of the Listing Rules of the UK Listing Authority.


BTW: i also think they should drop LOTR Hardly anyplayers of them over here and most of it can also be done with Fantasy.

Interesting. Perhaps we'll see prices come down for once instead of continueing to rise, or at very least get a man in charge who can actually listen to the consumers and what they want!

Cal

i'm not convinced a guy thats been in a company can be considered an outsider, so its more of a shuffle if you ask me. People are always hoping for the downfall of GW, but the reality is that if they were to go under there wouldn't be a company big enough to replace them. Computer games and such would take over no doubt, they already are. GW need to really start giving value with their products, I mean they have to stop pricing according to codex and army books costs. RnF should be cheap, and if metal character models cost a bit more so be it. As longpoint as army lists aren't then designed to max out heroes then its fair.
My teenager brother-in-law flirted with getting into the hobby, but the cost and time commitment simply scared him off. I reckon this is the case everywhere with the 'have it now' generation. He rightly told me that he could buy a warhammer type computer game and be playing it today for a fraction of the price. AND if it isn't that good no probs because theres plenty of others on the shelves to buy. :unsure:
GW was right to milk the Lotr band wagon, but should never have committed so much to it. I don't see another bandwagon like it coming along anytime soon so the company will have to look inwards.
With regards to the 'leaked' ork codex, the more I think about it the more I think it was deliberate. Why? Because the greenies will still buy it regardless and it allows others who may be tempted to get hooked perhaps on a new army. Whats the loss of a codex to the gain of a whole new army buyer? They'll still have to buy the codex later anyways if they take their shiney new army to an official tourneyment. We'll see if this trend continues...

When the Gw site still had its forum running their were people (including me0 who already foretold the outcome of LOTR. Off course none listened. Now they are stuck with it lets see how long they can keep that one up.

LOTR players around here are already looking with those eyes "i wanna play that" when they see us play 40k.

Thats the point(!): lotr is a feeder product. Its a familiar product that will attract people in, then they'll start looking at other stuff in the stop. Hey pesto new 40kers, wfbers etc ;)

lotr should have only been a throw away game like bloodbowl, spacehulk etc, but GW sunk too much money into it <_< I won't waste my time with it though.

exactly, i had no intention of ever playing LOTR. because i get sick of spending money on throw away games like bloodbowl & warmaster. like i said earlier they should have only kept it going while the movies where around. If they would just stick to the two main money earner's (fantasy & 40K) and devoted more time into their rules and modelsi would be happier

Yeah I have to agree with all of you. I used to play LOTR because my friends said it was good, and I liked the movie.
Nowadays, I can't be bothered to play it, because 40k and fantasy are so much better. You have a choice a guy with a gun(40k) or a guy who sucks and gets killed (LOTR). A lot of people will choose a guy with a gun, because it looks 'cool'.
One thing that is okay for LOTR is playing scenarios that are based on movie moments. Also having an army of heroes is preaty funny.
GW should seriously think about the future of LOTR. They should continue to manufacture it, but put a lot less money into it, and more into 40k and fantasy. The only reason I say to keep LOTR is because it gets a lot of gamers into GW. They then see things like 40K or fantasy and move on to that, which is what sells for the most money.

I'm not surprised. A lot of people think warhammer is a waste of money. The prices really need to be lowered. If the prices stay high, the only gamers there will be are the rich, fat people (weirdly a lot of rich, fat people do collect warhammer).
Could GW not even have a sale!!?? I have seen a pound shop have a 50% sale!! And GW don't even take 1p of their prices.
Okay that's my rant for today (and the rest of the week)
Laney

I have a feeling that the cost thing might change eg 10 Dark Elf warriors not 30 euro but 17,50 euro that is a huge price difference. (source WD 344)