I've been puzzled by how to use two of the Eldar units, even after reading a lot of good tacticas and Q&As.

1. Dire Avengers:

People have been talking about how great it is that they can move and shoot 18" with their assault weapons, and how they can keep away from the assault units for 1-2 turns more by doing that. My question is, how is 18" enough to do that? Any good assault unit will have one of three things:

- Fleet - Well, this one is not as bad, but it gives the mover the potential to charge you from 18" away. So the Avengers would want to stay at least 16-18" away from them to avoid being charged, right? Then you would really hope that you kill the closest chargers so they can't make the 18" if they get lucky the next turn.

- Jump Packs - These can definitely charge you from 18" away, so the turn before they plan to charge, they'll move within 18" of you, normally around 16" or so. If you want to shoot at them, you can't move farther than 18" away, so you'll get charged the next turn for sure. If you move away, then you can't shoot at them, and while you can play "hide and seek" for a few turns, and let your other units take care of the chargers, your avengers aren't doing any shooting. Of course, the chargers can move within 12" of you to guarantee a charge (even if you move 6" away), then you can shoot them before you get charged. Or if the chargers corner you. But the point is, the move away and then shoot thing will only work at most once, in special cases spelled out above.

- Cavalry - Oh boy... now these usually have fleet, so 19-24" charge range... there's no way the Avengers can shoot the chargers before they charge them.

So with that, I don't see how the Dire Avengers can be effective unless they fight against regular movement assault troops like Khorne or non D-Speed/Jump Packed marines. Any ideas?

2. Warlock Units:

With the new codex, you can have 3-10 Warlocks as a unit. I know this is trying to simulate the old Seer Council, but what I'm trying to figure out is, what are these Warlock units good for? A couple things I can think of is if they're all put on jetbikes (very expensive!) and get singing spears, they can go tank or MC/character hunting. But is that an effective use of points? Just wanted to see what other people's ideas were.

Thanks!

There certainly are other reasons why Dire Avengers are a good unit. I've never had trouble with them getting charged, simply because my oponent doesn't field many assault specialised units. I can however see your point.

Eldar units are designed to help one another, the strengths of one unit compensating for the weaknesses of the other. For example, say I had a group of Banshees moving along side the Avengers. They can't shoot long range, but the Avengers can do that, so they can lay down covering fire. However Avengers aren't brilliant in assault, but if they get assaulted the Banshees are there to bulster them.

Alternatively assume that Reapers or Rangers or a Fire Prism was on hand near the Avengers. Sure the Avengers may not be able to fire and avoid getting assaulted the same turn, but the Reapers or Fire Prism sure can lay down some punishment on that assault unit from range.

Finaly, try a tactic called 'The Lure'. Fleet of Foot can help you keep the upper hand on your oponent, and it even works against Assault infantry. If you think they're going to be in assault range, move back, then fleet further back. If your oponent doesn't see your plan, and you don't have any other unit with the Avengers, your oponent will persue you thinking that he will smash you apart in assault and he has nothing to fear. Then run the Avengers forward, blade storm his face off, and then charge him yourself.

Remember that the Avenger Exarch can be given with CC weapons which make his adequate at causing wounds. Also remember that if you are going to get assaulted, blade storm your oponent, because you'll get more kills and you won't need to shoot next turn.

On Warlocks:

The new unit is wierd, I agree. But I think it is very advantageous to use, as you can make a Seer Council quite a formidable assault unit.

Say you took one Farseer and 4 Warlocks. Give them various weapons, then arm one with Embolden, one with enhance if they get charged, and two with Destructor as they charge. Then cast Fortune on the unit to make it hard as nails and charge it into the middle of an Imperial Guard, Tau or Ork unit and it would cause havoc! 3+ saves make this unit difficult to use against SM and Crons, but it could be used to bolster an Avenger unit.

Alternatively you could take 6 warlocks and two Farseers. armed in various ways you could give one enhance, one embolden and 4 Destructor to lay down some serious flamer template nastiness. Then give the Farseers Doom, Fortune and Mind War to take out squad leaders and you'd have a formidable CC unit.

Mounting them on Jet bikes is also a cool idea, though super expensive. You'd be better off taking Shining Spears.

Thanks for the insight Cal! I like the "The Lure" tactic, and I'm slowly pounding the idea of "working together" into my thick skull (too much Alpha Legion "independent operating cells" lately! :P )

Anyway, one more question about Destructor, or flamers in general.

I haven't found any use for flamers and I don't know why everyone says flamers are so good (like on Wraithlords, warlocks, etc.). I understand you don't need to hit, and the amount of wounds is crazy (especially with Doom), but the template is very short, and again, against assault units that will try to charge you before you charge them, you'll never get a shot off.

For example, if I see a Wraithlord with 2 flamers, or a Warlock/Farseer unit with Destructor coming at me, if I had any assault units near by, I would have them charge the Wraithlord/Warlocks, or charge them with the unit being threatened. Of course, I do see the point about how sturdy both the Wraithlord and Warlock units are, so the enemy probably doesn't want to get their good assault units tied up with them till turn 6, or lose the shooting abilities of their non CC army.

But in the end, I feel that flamers are only good if you have jump packs, since you can close in from out of rapid fire range, use the flamers, and then charge.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks!

I don't use flamers against Space Marines or Necrons. the 3+ save negates their effectiveness, but against Guard or 'Nids they rock, simply because you can cause a lot of casualties before charging in. They are admittedly not a weapon to give a unit you aren't planning on charging with though, simply because you have to get so close to use them and you will be charged if you don't charge.

Think about a whole bunch of Warlocks on bikes, screaming at your enemy, frying them with multiple destructors before smashing them aside with their witch blades. Low save armies beware!!

they can also be worth while on units that are packed in a confined space, like a unit that has just deep struck but can't assault yet. I lose 6 Flayed Ones to only two flamers when that happened to me.

Cal

Yeah, I've lost many many warriors to 3 flamer templates (Flamers of Tzeench) in one game...

But those move 12". I can never get the flamer to work on foot-slogging troops because I always get charged before I get to the enemy. Then again, I usually play more CC armies than shooty.

If you can't get them to work, the simple solution is to not use them. There aren't many units in the Eldar army that have them anyway.

I am a great believer in the "more saves more fails" theory and as such will always take a flamer if possible. I use two with my storm guardians and destructor on my jetbiking warlock. I have a great kill ratio, especially with the BS 3 ness of the stormies sucking somewhat, I can really tidy up a squad before hitting it with a charge. Even Meq's can "feel the burn", also I'm a hopeless optimist with my light combat troops, sometimes they will surprise, othertimes....well they weren't too expensive in the first place lol! B)

Flamers are generally useful if you are in a transport. You get that awesome 12" move followed by a few templates of death. Whatever is left usually will die if they charge you so the enemy is sorta in a stump. So if you can spare a falcon or a waveserpent for those warlocks, you can really hurt somthing.

Admittidly walking with flamers is generally a bad idea. (Unless you are playing as sisters of battle.)