1 Farseer (HQ)
Singing Spear;
Spirit Stones
Guide
Doom

10 Guardian Defender Squad
Scatter Laser

10 Guardian Defender Squad
Scatter Laser

9 Dire Avengers
+1 Exarch
2 Avenger Cat
Bladestorm
Wave Serpent
TLStarcannons
Spirit Stones
Vectored Engines

5 Warp Spiders+ 1 Exarch
Powerblades; 2 Deathspinners

1 Fire Prism
Spirit Stones
Holo-fields

1 Wraithlord
Flamer (x2); Bright Lance&Missile Launcher

1 Wraithlord
Flamer (x2); Scatter Laser& Starcannon

2 Vyper
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Shuriken Cannon

2 Shining Spears (Fast Attack)
+ 1 Exarch
Withdraw

Models in Army: 48


Total Army Cost: 1496


Are 2 WraithLord too much?
I'm considering drop the Wave for the DA to use a Avatar, or expand the Spiders an Sh.Spears Squad.
What do you think?

no 2 wraithlords arent too much but you may have too many scatter lasers depending on what you normally fight
vs orcs, guard, nids these are excellent vs marines and necrons they suck
they will also be handy vs people who use skimmers and light vehicles
i have 3 wraithlords 2 of which are armed as you have armed yours

A good list i feel

It is a good list, but could do with a few changes.

If you want an Avatar I advise you drop the second Wraith Lord. Keep the Lance and missile Launcher one for tank hunting. But I'd lose it simply to free up some points.

Place a Warlock or Spirit Seer with one if not both the Guardian squads. You'll need to free up some points to do this, so I advise either dropping a Wraith Lord, or regretfully dropping either the Warp Spiders or shining spear.

Tactics advice:

Throw the Farseer into the Wave Serpent with the Avengers. Zoom them up to an oponent, have them jump out. Cast Guide and Doom and watch a large squad wither away under your fire power.

Some gamers are very strict on casting psychic powers at thevery beginning of your turn. Your regular oponent should not mind if you cast Guide and Doom after you disembark in the movement phase. Its a perfectly liable tactic and I think its a bit unfair that it gets spoiled by some stupid technicality.

Keep the Guardians back with the Wraith Lord with two warlocks casting conceal upon them. This will make for a solid deffence line, with the Wraith Lord firing his tank busting weaponry from behind them.

The Fire Prism also doesn't have to go into the thick of the fighting. It's got a long ranged gun, so you really only have to keep it moving along the rear of your table edge so it won't get shot down.

Shining Spears and Warp Spiders are cool, but the two squads you have up there are rather small. The shining spears could probably still do some damage at only S3, providing they all survive to get into combat. Warp Spiders however will do diddly against marines unless you have at least six or more. But if you play guard or Orks or Tau, then 5 will be fine.

i would possibly drop the vypers as u have plenty of longer range str 6 weapons in the scatters and add a few warlocks and up the shinning spears, the warlocks will prevent wraithsight and can off a 5+ invu save to a unit which is very handy
what armies do u normally fight?

Tks for the tips!

I only have 2 Scatter! :huh: ...but i have 4 Shuriken Cannons!! IMHO is the cheapest way to use a Vyper...and because i don't have WW :unsure:

Warp Spiders are my favourite unit, and they are my 1st choice to Fast Attack. But the problem is the CC unit...Has you have notice, i don't have CC units so, if my enemy charge me...i :( :( :( So that is why i have the Spears...an try to break the enemy unit...i hope.

I will use this list in a (friendly) tournament...so i have to stick with the rules!

I was thinking to drop the Wave Serpent and remove my Farseer for a cheaper one with Fortune and Singing Spear...to Fortune the Avatar while he advance against the enemy lines escorted by 2 wraithlords in their mighty path to destruction!! :blink: uurhhh...or maybe not!?

...everything! Most are (very) experienced players and have (at least) 3 armies!...Daemonhunters is the only army that does not exist in local store!...for now! Last tournament there were 2 Tyranids (Gaunt and Zillas), 4SMurfs (Blood A, Ravenwing, Dark A and UltraM) , 1 Sisters, 2 Eldar and Orks. Next we will have also Tau, Necrons, IG and Dark Eldar...

PS: Any advice against Tau with 2 Rail Hammerheads and 2 Broadsides? :o :blink:

yeah, lance the cr*p outa it before it does you. Rail Guns will blow Wraith Lord to pieces!

If you like Spiders so much and don't want them to get caught in combat, give them withdraw.

If i had the points i would give them Withdraw and would use a full squad...
What woul you sugest to substitute the S. Spears?

Here's a suggestion.

A lot of players will advise against it, but I've played many a game like this before.

Scratch the Guardians (or maybe just one squad) for extra points. Guardians are like Farseers, good, but certainly not necessery.

Why not scratch both squads and take a large squad of Rangers for your second troops choice. That way everything in your army is either really fast, or really long ranged. Everything would be able to open fire by turn two at least.

Guardians are a nice solid unit, but certainly not nessery. I've been playing and winning games without them for years!

i agree with Cal and vs tau your vypers are dead basic tau rifles will cut them down at longer range than the shuri cannons
pathfinders/ rangers ahve great range good vs big nids and have a chance of ignoring marine/ term armour
i find mind war very handy for targeting power fist users, necron lords with orbs etc
the avatar and twin WLs would be nasty

For this size game, only 20 gaurdians is likely to pose an issue if most of yoru opponents have lots of ranged guns. One option is to loose both units, and add another full unit of Avengers. If you don't use the transport for the existing squad, then the two squads would provide a nasty tag-team. With their 4+ save and their longer range weaponry (not to mention Bladestorm), they will probably survive longer.

Calaith Posted on Jan 7 2007, 08:58 AM

:huh: Cal if you plan to do that in any of our games you've got another thing coming.

I would like you to point out where in the rule book or the ELdar codex it states that all psychic powers must be cast at the start of the turn before anything else is done whatsoever. It simply says that some psychic powers are done in the shooting phase, some in other phases. There is no specific psychic phase at the start of the turn phase.

Guide, Fortune and Doom simply state that the Farseer must target a model or unit to cast the power on, not that it must be cast at the beginning of the turn. If anything Doom should be cast just before the shooting phase.

Cal

I usually (i only play once...)only use 2 troops slots 10 DA in a Wave and 10Guardians&ScatterLaser...If i drop the 2nd Guardian Squad, i could spent the points in the Spiders and Shininh Spears...maybe i'll do that!

I made some changes. I drop the 2nd Guardian Squad, removed the Starcannon form the Wave and i'll use a Shuriken Cannon (cheaper that way). I now have a full squad of Spiders with withdraw a 4 S.Spears squad.

1 Farseer (HQ)
Singing Spear
#Ghosthelm
Spirit Stones
Doom
Guide

10 Dire Avengers (Troops)
Avenger Shuriken Catapult
1 Exarch
2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults
Bladestorm
1 Wave Serpent
Linked Shuriken Catapults; Linked Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones

10 Guardian Defender Squad (Troops)
Shuriken Catapult
1 Grav Platform
Scatter Laser (x1)

4 Shining Spears (Fast Attack) @ 177 Pts
Laser Lance; Linked Shuriken Catapults; Jetbike
1 Exarch @
Laser Lance
Withdraw

2 Vyper (Fast Attack)
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Shuriken Cannon

10 Warp Spiders (Fast Attack)
1 Exarch
Powerblades; 2 Deathspinners
Withdraw

1 Wraithlord (Heavy Support)
Flamer (x2); Bright Lance (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)

1 Wraithlord (Heavy Support)
Flamer (x2); Scatter Laser (x1); Starcannon (x1)

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support)
Linked Shuriken Catapults; Prism Cannon
Spirit Stones
Holo-fields

What do you think?

nice a good list imho :D

Eldar Codex, page 28, paragraph one:
"Unless otherwise noted.... .....are used at the start of the Eldar turn and do not require the psyker to have line of sight to target"

If a squad disembarks from a vehicle, or moves, then it is no longer the start of the turn.

Also, I found that last part interesting.... from just reading over the farseer powers, the only one that notes it needs a line of site is Mind War, so sit your farseer behind a rock within 18 inches and Doom then Eldritched Storm the heck out of the enemy.....

yes i agree you cant start casting while in a transport nice fact for storm makes it very handy indirect fire

I don't disagree with the Farseer not being able to cast powers from inside the vehicle. I just think if he plans to disembark he should be allowed to still cast it.

After disembarking, as long as the tank has not moved, the squad hasn't gone anywhere, and nothing else on the table top has moved. Essentially nothing has happened but the squad disembarking, so why is this still not the start of the Eldar turn?

What if a squad came down via deep striking like Warp Spiders or Hawks. Could I cast Guide on them? Yet Deep striking happens at the start of the turn. Assume the Farseer was not in the tank with the squad? And assume that the Farseer was not in the tank with the squad, wanted to cast a power that had no rellevance to the squad, but the player still placed it on the battle field before doing anything else?

Its the exact same thing. Unless I move the tank before hand (in which case I agree wth Farseer is inside the tank at the start of the turn) then no movement has actually occured, I have simply placed a squad on the battle field, they do not count as moving.

On the list, it looks good. But now I'm going to tell you to go in the other direction...

Drop the Spiders down to 8. This is still a respectable number, and frees some points to put better weapons no a tank or two. Shuriken Cannons are nice vs. pretty much anything but SM. But against power armour they are a waist of points. You should have at least one Star cannon or something in your force somewhere in case you face these fellas.

i must disagree cal the issue of psyhic powers while in a transport has been raised on many daemonhunter forums as to casting a power on a unit which is not on the battlefield? i'd say no but then you could roll for the hawks arriving and fail for them to turn up

back to the list , 8 is a good number for spiders vs guard 8 spdiers will often kill most of a unit they shoot at

So you are arguing that Hawks could not get the benefits of Guide or Fortune on the turn they showed up? Even though resserves is supposed to be the first thing that is done in a game turn? (sorry, I'm a little uncertain about what you are saying above)

Just to clear things up: I totally agree with not casting powers on units that are still in a transport. I am not arguing that a Farseer should be able to cast guide on a unit inside a transport, or that a farseer inside a transport should be able to cast doom on a unit on the outside. (nor could he even cast guide on a unit inside the transport with him)

What I'm saying is once the unit is placed on the battle field, they do not count as moving (as long as the tank or any other unit has not yet moved), thus the 'movement phase' has not been initiated. Thus it is still the start of the Eldar turn.

Sorry if I'm being a bit of a post highjack. If this debate continues I'll start a new thread.

@Atherakhia,

Here are my thoughts;

Nice, I generally prefer Spear Farseers to be on a bike but it isn't necessary. It might be an idea to have him leave the DA once they have disembarked and keep him within 6". Makes him impervious to shooting and allows him to hitch up his skirt if the DAs get in trouble.

Plenty horde control here, you could really do with a Spirit Seer here though. The Farseer will be quickly seperated from the slower moving 'lords a 12" sphere of influence in the centre of the battlefield would really help with Wraithsight. So you would need 36 pts from somewhere (Warlock + Embolden + Spirit Seer).

This might seem obvious but remember to have somewhere to withdraw to They get mashed by virtually anything in the 2nd round of combat but don't let them Withdraw into a firirng line. Skilled Rider might be nice so they can take advantage of cover.

I was using these the other day (proxying with Ravenguard Landspeeders :P ). The problem they have is they must be within small arms range to be useful. To work they really need a CTM. For 10 points you could upgrade both to EML. Longe range and pinning to boot. Many people claim they are pointless out of a Mechanised List. I don't agree with that but, you need too be canny with them.

Drop two spiders and 'blades to enact the Warlock and Vyper changes.

Nice, choose the right targets and they will serve you well.

Use it's awesome range to your advantage and keep it moving.

Nice list, unusual to see a list without any new shiny bits but it is pretty solid.

GL.

What a brilliant idea! I never even contemplated using a spirit seer in my guardian units, but if I intend to keep them near my wraithlord, them magnificant!