What's your war face? Do you have a desire to win? That's primarily what makes a tournament player. I've met a lot of Magic players in my day, and 90% of them don't have the mentality to play in tournaments. They look at Magic differently. To become a high-caliber tournament player, you need to give up a hell of a lot of what you enjoy of the game, and for some people, that's too much. I know there are people who enjoy playing in tournaments for the fun of playing, but that's a lie because the only true fun in a tournament comes from winning. You must have the will of the warrior. In this thread, I want to set out things that must be done to become a tournament player, and signs that you might not be one.

-Get rid of "favorite color" junk. You're not a "black mage" or a "green mage" anymore. Tournament players like colors that win, and that color in Vintage is primarily blue. That's by default, your favorite color.

-Similarly, get rid of favorite creatures or strategies. For the same reasons, the ones that you like are ones that win you the game, not the ones with good art or cool flavor.

-You need to commit a significant amount of time to Magic in ways that you have not done before. This involves reading articles and forums and participating in them on a daily basis. Your non-tournament playing will likely be entirely testing for tournaments; I can't remember the last game of "casual" magic that I have played but I know it's been several years. T4 is about the only thing that comes close to the "kitchen table" experience.

-As a corollary of the first two, never ever disclude a card for reasons that cannot be logically supported. "I don't like it" isn't good enough and you'll pass up good things.

-Netdecking is not evil, it's expected. People who tell you otherwise play a different game than you. I'm part of the biggest and most productive team in Vintage and we still struggle at times for new decks. Sometimes you just play the best deck and the one you are best with.

-win, win, win. This is all that matters. Having a team makes winning a lot better, and I'd advise it to everyone. If you 0-2 drop, you have other people to cheer for that will make you proud. Teams are something I could devote an entire article to, but let me just say that everyone on your team must share the same winning mindset that you do or they will be dead weight.

-Don't get attached to a "pet deck".

There's probably a lot more. Feel free to add if you want. My point is that tournament Magic requires a complete shift in what the game is and means to you. If you're still in the "I don't play white cards" phase, that's fine. You will not be winning events, but if you have fun around the kitchen table, that's great. Winning is a much different dynamic than "having fun with friends" and people need to realize if they have it or not. Both lead to the same thing, enjoyment of the game, but they are not inclusive completely.

If you have more, please add to this.

I agree for the most part. There are two points that I would dispute though.

I don't think you have to give up a favorite strategy insofar as that strategy corresponds to one of the two basic ways to win (decking, dropping opponent to 0). As long as your deck does that effectively, then you don't have to give up a strategy. If you like attacking, then play the best aggro deck in the format. If you like decking, play dragon (maybe Sensei). I don't have a problem with sticking to a strategy, as long as you go about that strategy the most efficient way.

Also,

I don't see a problem with a pet deck. JD-Belcher. Rich Shay-Slaver. Kevin Cron-Stax. Robert Vroman-Uba. I think it comes down to that "specialist" vs "generalist" discussion on TMD. If you know your deck well enough, it can be a force wherever you take it. However, you must make sure that your pet deck is completely up to date, no one will be top 8ing with Erhnam-Geddon, but Dragon can still compete.

I guess those really weren't disputes, more like clarifications. Meh.

Wow, this thread opened up my eyes. This is a great nugget of insight for any who haven't many tournaments under their belts.

Sarcasm isn't necessary. Doug is just telling the truth to people who would fight with him about it at any given time.

I agree.

'nuff said.

No, favoring strategies like decking is not good if you want to win. That's an irrelevant way to win the game; leading up to it is what matters. Dragon can kill with infinite Time Walks or a bazillion Slivers or dealing a large amount of damage at once. Picking a playstyle is fine to an extent; Kevin enjoys Stax because he is good with it; JD plays combo; I play Mana Drain control. We're comfy with those things and we wouldn't play them if they weren't good. I really like SOTF, but you sure as hell won't see me playing it in Vintage.

If you like a way of winning, that's fine as long as that is a good way of winning. If you like burn decks, you shouldn't play Vintage because your preferred way of winning doesn't lead to winning. Only when you let go of a strategy that isn't held because you are good with it (see examples above) or those rare times when the strategy that you like turns out to be good (Joshie Green, anyone?) will you have a winning record at tournaments.

this thread made me sad as it reminded me that i havn't played a casual game of magic since 7th grade. :(


I AM A WARRIOR! :cool:

...I wasn't being sarcastic...

@Doug

I said:

You said

and

I also said:

and you said:

So, perhaps I'm just bad at articulating, but we are saying the same thing. :D

This thread makes me sad. I can pinpoint the day where I stopped playing Magic for fun. I mean I still have fun playing, but it just isnt the same. I remember the days with your 1 good rare, and the glee you had when you drew it. :cry:
Alas, no more. *Sniff* I havent play casual Magic in...... idk how long

It really does make me sad to think about it.

I love tournaments and such but I also fondly remember the days of hardcasting WGD and beating someone down with it.

We probably are saying the same thing : )

These are all traits that I've seen in myself and other hardcore tourney players, such as teammates. Kevin likes Stax, but he played Meandeck Tendrils at Waterbury and Oath at Richmond. You just can't be tied to one deck or strategy when you know something else is potentially much better.

The real big shame with being in the winning mindset is that it's very hard to go back to casual magic. 5-Color was fun for a while but I just kept trying to make more and more broken decks that ceased to be actually fun to play. Peasant Magic, Highlander, etc all get broken and not built for fun after a while of playing them. The only real casual magic now is T4, where I get to play the Timmy spells and I have no control over deck construction to an extent.

could you explain T4?
i have heard of it but don't know what it is.

I only have limited experience with the format (aka, I've played it once). Rules differ, but generally:

The meat of the format is that there is infinite mana, and you can only play one spell per turn.

All other rules apply. Draw7 at the begining of the game. Draw1 per turn.

Deck construction differs depending on who you're playing with. Sometimes people draft cards for T4, sometimes everyone brings a stack of rares to throw into a larger stack, sometimes there is a premade stack for players. In the variants where there is only one deck, all players share one deck (aka the stack).

Obviously there are some restrictions. X-Spells are ussually banned, or at the very least there are very few of them in any given stack. Deck Manipulation cards like Index become very interesting. Cards with activated abilities that only require mana like Plaguebearer and Treasure Trove are also quite good.

oh, like pack wars....
or stack, which is kinda the same sept you play cards face down for mana instead of infinate mana....
never heard that called T4 though.

I have had the same experience. Every time my friend "quits" magic, I always have some way of getting him back in. One time was to play Highlander. Unfortunately, after a while, I went all spike on him and he "quit" again. Don't worry, I got him back into it though.

I always play red. :\

And I win plenty of events playing monored or Red/X. It's just my favorite color and the one I'm most familiar with.

What a surprise considering your name... :eek:

I have a few of those. Since I do play just to have fun (so im happy even if I lose). But thats just comes from the fact that I just love the game. Just when im winning its just even more sweet.

But im just odd I think.

Yeah, before I read this thread, I also thought I "loved the game". I just dont love it as much anymore. I have to worry about rating and my savage metagame and other shit. It detracts from the beauty.

This thread makes me sad.

When I first started playing agian, seriously, I had all these high dreams and aspirations of breaking formats and becoming the next World champ.

I'm over that. I know I'll never get to a Pro Tour, probably will never go to, let alone win a Grand Prix, and have about a snowball's chance in hell of becoming World Champ.

I'll stick with FNM's and casual.

i know i have quite a good chance of making it to a PT event if i stay in this game another 2-3 years because the only thing stoping me right now is my age and lack of travel.
we'll see i guess.

I think that is the best part about playing Type 1. Its really competitive, but you don't have the drawbacks of hating playing.

I can lose games and still feel good about playing magic after the initial crappitude of defeat washes away. I can also justify increasing tournament costs and traveling to events (like the next SCG) just to play a card game that I have really a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

Even in my tiny pool of players in Houston, type 1 is competitive and winning is everything, and it comes out in the decks people use. Sure there are mountain.deck people that will show up at a tournament. But its never really fun unless I play through chronstax, oath, TPS, dragon, 5c stax, gifts and tog every night and win. Keeping the eye on the prize is paramount, and that extra weight on the game makes it just that much more addictive.

I guess I could start playing standard or extended and hit up the GP's and PTQ's that come through town, but man, those games just aren't as fun as dealing with tinker->dsc as your competition.

Here, Here!!!
I feel the same way.
We cant forget money, with an unlimited budget Magic would be a lot easier.

i like how you misquoted my name. :rolleyes:
yes it would be easier but i would rather keep my current budget and have my parents let me travel than the other way around.

I spend a lot of cash on Magic and I can tell you this, all the power in the world won't make you play it any better.

The problem with this argument about staying away from "pet decks" is that ALL of the above decks are what those players find to be the objectivly best deck for them to play at a given tourney...

Doug already stated that Kevin played combo at several events, JD usually plays long type decks, Rich Shay's fav deck is Slaver and he hasnt had to make a switch because for him that is the best deck easy...same with Vroman, and for him its even another thing because he is pretty new overall to the T1 scene and he hasnt really had too big of a meta swing to adapt to..

Heh, its like saying I only play Cerebral Assasin because thats what a few people know me for...well if you look at my tourney history I also play a TON of stax and combo and even shop aggro like 7/10 and the riddler (all to top 8 finishes or wins)

I KNOW that CA would do terrible in Chicago where there is a lot of Stax and the like so I wouldnt take it there...however I probably would take it to Rochester (and pwn face) where there is a lot of control which CA is made to smash on...

That out of the way....heh

I am a tourney player through and through, especially since I consider my casual games to be T1 testing at a slower more laid back pace, heh (meaning you can take things back to figure out the best path to victory and stuff, lol) BUT from time to time I will sit down and play some 5color (when I have the cards to make a deck) or some casual T2 (with tier 1 decks though of course, heh).

But generally casual for me means sitting around playing Munchkin which is clearly the best card game behind Magic availible... :P (I am such a good cheater at Munchkin man...heh, fear me :smirk: )

I think we can all agree that metagaming is important. And if your "pet deck" is sligh, then you shouldn't be playing the format. But having a "pet deck" that is viable is perfectly ok.

I'm not trying to argue that if the best player in world's pet deck is sligh he should play it in a tournament. I'm arguing that you can consistently play one deck (like the people I've mentioned) and do well with it.

I said this in my earlier post, but it comes down to that specialist VS generalist conversation on TMD. Some people are better players because they are specialists, some are better because they are generalist.

You don't always have to change the archtype you are playing, because if you know your deck well enough you CAN win through hate. If the "you can't have a pet deck" rule was true, then JD would never play Belcher because its considered a "sub par" combo deck. Fish would never be played because its considered "dead." Having pet decks can actually lead to innovation.

Ah, I remember playing casual, but alas, no more. Most of my first friends don't play anymore or play YGO now.

JD has this ability to calculate probabilities and make split-second decisions when piloting Belcher that I would never be able to do. The deck is highly powerful but highly finicky. He can get it to work because his skills match closely with it; if CS rewarded probabilistic calculations in the way that Belcher does, I'm sure he'd give it a swing. Playing the deck that suits your skills is a good thing; that's why Rich plays CS, Kevmo plays Stax, JD plays combo and I play Gifts.

how about your parents hate of magic?

Kids, if your parents won't let you play magic just tell them about me. No college, horrible grades in school, no girlfriend, no future or really any direction in life at all. I wouldnt have it any other way either.

That will convince them to let you play.

i DID tell them about you and now they say "is that waht you want!?!?!?!? to have a low paying job and no family!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?"
it goes on for quite soem time... :wtf:

@IMOPEN:
Nah, I just need money to travel, my parents would be ok w/ it. Or i wouldnt care what they thought. Which ever.

= Musician

I think that I will end up buying an RV and living in that as I tour the US. (Not for playing music of course, just kinda going ot random places in the states.)

traits that define a hick anyone?

I hope you didn't actually tell them. :(

When I talk to them about Magic, I just talk about the 30k first prize for a Pro Tour.

:lol: I was a little short on cash for the last PTQ so I said "first place gets a trip to honolulu"(spelling?)

that IS what they get...
30k is for pro tour events not pro tour qualifier.
also, they say "you know how hard it would be for you to win that???"
they arn't very supportive.
and yes i told them about lyle but not in a negative way, just random shit he told me...like that he is/was a trucker.

I like this thread. I started kind of noticing that the game wasn't as fun as when I was a complete newb, but then I also noticed that I started to dominate at it. Being on a (very poor) budget I kind of have to have a pet deck, but I try to not focus all I've got into so that I have a deck for backup. The tourneys around here aren't much though, and it seems like none of the players has any sense of how to metagame- so I could get away with the same deck over and over. A pet deck in a field that actually learns from past tourneys can just get you screwed over.

Ok, now there are numerous benefits that are presented when you live in an RV.
1. No house payment....
That should really be enough, but you also get to travel all over the US.
I just would like the nomadic lifestyle.

Problem with being a hick is that,

1. You smell janky.
2. Your a stupid Republician.
3. You talk like a dumbass.
4. You fucked up your whole life listening to "Sweet Home Alabama."
5. Nobody likes you because your favorite show is Green Acre, and you think everyone should be like that.
6. You smell janky.
7. yeah, you smell janky.
8. You suck for being a Republician.
9. Read 2 and 8.
10. hick.


Although, the nomadic lifestyle would be pretty damn nice. Let's take a picture of every goddamn license plate everytime we visit a state...


I'm sorry... I'm asian, I don't know what it's like being a hick. Although, I did meet a redneck asian who drives a truck with a Confederate flag on it.