Has anyone else been following the Terry Schiavo case?

For those of you who havent.......short version.........

She collapsed years ago, they believe from an eating disorder. Drs operated on her after the collapse and caused brain damage. She is now very disabled. Her husband...who has a fiance and two kids with his fiance....decided to take her feeding tube. She is starving to death.

She cannot talk, walk, eat. She does smile, coo, laugh, follow people with her eyes.

I am very much against starving someone to death. If she were on death row, the state of Florida would be sued for cruel and unusual punishment.

The husband testified in court...when he was sueing the drs for money to care for Terry....that he would care for her for the rest of his life. Now, he says Terry asked not to be kept alive like that if something should happen to her. Convienant, since he has gotten his money. He wont divorce her...although he's obviously moved on in his life with another woman. He wont allow the parents to care for her. He wont allow ANY rehab.

I have faced death with my bouts of leukemia. I have had to decide what I would want in the event that things didnt go well. I have had to make a lot of hard decisions...ventilator or no ventilator ect ect. I KNOW that I would have never choosen to be starved to death. And there's no way my hubby would have asked that I be starved to death.

Anyway....that's my rant.

What do you think about this case?

Lanna

Lanna I totally agree with you. My daughter was born with a heart defect 'Transposition of the Great Arteries', and through that she suffered a stroke, which the doctors at Sick Childrens Hospital in Toronto told me she was going to be a vegetable, to just take her home where she will die. They were not going to do the surgery to correct her heart, but I did everything in my power to prove them wrong. Alissa did have feeling and moved her little toes when I tickled them. I had to pull a nurse to the room and show her as proof, and in the end they did do the surgery. Today Alissa is classified 'Special Needs', she has some learning disabilities and does not have use of her right hand, only to assist, and wears a leg brace on right leg. You would never know by looking at this girl, she is the most special to me in my heart and has proven the doctors wrong!

Lanna I am so sorry you had to go through all the pain and suffering. And stories like yours and my daughters is proof alone that be it a person sick or in a vegetable state does not mean they are dead. I feel so bad for Terry and her family, and pray a merical happens.

I respect everyones views, this is just mine. :)

Oh I think it is awful! We were watching on the news about it last night and it's just disgusting what they are doing to that poor woman!
Having worked in a learning disabilties hospital and one of my friends is a respite carer, I just find it horrifying that people are treating Terry in this way. I know people who have relatively the same disabilties as she has and are being cared for by relatives, etc. We even took Richard, one of my friend's extremely disabled clients, out for the day to Callendar (little touristy bit of Scotland) and even though he may not have been able to speak to us, eat, walk, go to the toilet by himself, etc, he smiled when we talked to him and looked to be enjoying himself. He was clearly able to register what was going on around him.
So what I don't understand is why on Earth are they starving Terry to death?!

And may I say Lanna, this is exactly the kind of thing I had in mind for this category! Thank you very much for starting us off!

Thanks Ang and Debbie.

This case has weighed heavily on me since first hearing of it. I've been following it for a very long time. I dont understand the legalities of it...I do understand the morality of it though. To me, it's morally wrong to do this to her.

I know Congress met and passed a new bill into law...with the president's help...to try and stop this insanity...but so far this hasnt helped. My heart goes out to Terry and her family.

Debbie...I am so sorry that you and your daughter went through that. I am sooooo glad she made it though. It just shows that miracles still happen. I sincerely hope she continues to do well.

Ang...I applaud you and your husband for realizing that although people sometimes cant voice themselves...they still have thoughts and feelings. It's great that Richard got a day out. I'm sure he enjoyed himself immensly!


I am praying for a miracle for Terry.

Lanna

Lanna, Thank you for your warm words and yes miracles do happen! If only there were more people like yourself and Ang that believe in life and what goes along with the quality of life as it should be.
Debbie

Well, some of you know I am Catholic which is normally a life promoting faith. I chose Catholocism as an adult, not raised in the church.....

This does bare a bit of weight on how I feel in this situation, but my mind has been changed due to some information I got as things unfolded.

Currently, I believe 1. This is murder of a person who is not clinically brain-dead, and 2. Her hubby shouldn't be the one making the call.

At first I felt the parents were butting in where they shouldn't. If these were truly Terri's wishes and her husband was trying to fulfill them in a sincere manner, then I would agree to it.

Terri's hubby abused her. When she was in the hospital during the first months there were CAT scans done and "numerous old injuries including fractures of both arms and other bones were detected" These injuries were not known of by her parents which means they happened AFTER she was married to him.

His new family situation and the fact that once he got in this new relationship is when he decided to have the feeding tube removed.

I don't believe Terri wished to die from starvation. I think if anything she didn't want "extrodinary measures"....

Terri is not completely "gone" and I have seen a nurse discussing the fact that she actually could say the word "PAIN" and communicate other things at the 3 to 5 year point and it was then that the Husband had her therapy discontinued and she lost some of those things.... her body was trying to heal.

This nurse also said that they documented all of what Terri could do, how she was improving and that he would come in and demand to see the file and then the documents would be missing when they got it back.

Those people were all afraid of this man for some reason as well.

I feel so sorry for her and her family :(

We first saw the news about Terri a few weeks ago on British T.V and the first thing my husband and I said was that people would not allow an animal to starve to death in such a way, so why do this to any human, who will obviously be in a lot of pain from this slow death.

EXACTLY!

My mom said "we don't treat our death row inmates in such an inhumane way!" and I totally agree.

News....Federal courts are "considering" hearing the Schiavo case. I hope they can do something in time.


Lanna

One doctor said she was past the point of saving... it's just horrible what that man is doing... and as for those doctors who are supporting him, well I hope they can sleep at night! :angry:
I can't believe they're letting a man who, from what you've said Bo, committed domestic violence decide whether she lives or dies!
I agree that it should be the parents responsibility, not the husband's.

If a human were to starve their animals they would be fined and charged for animal crulity. Yet, doctors can starve a human and not be charged and fined?

Now, for the young generation, what kind of example does this set?

Yeah, I don't know if she would make it now.

Also, I've seen the pope is now on a feeding tube. I know not everyone is Catholic but he's a good Pope. He's brought many faiths together in peace. I hate to see him so frail. I bet they wouldn't starve the pope! :angry:

BBB...I saw that on the news. The Pope has a ventilator and a feeding tube?

Youre right. They would never starve The Pope to death.

Lanna

Personally, I think that if she had not wanted to live that way, she has every right to end her own life. Now, I know that she didn't have that in a living will, and it's just going on her husbands word.. but I cannot honestly imagine being happy in a vegtable like state.

My family knows that if anything were to happen to me, and I was going to either come out brain damaged, or have to rely on machines for the rest of my life, that I would rather be dead. If I cannot enjoy the things in life, there is not point in living.

However, starving her to death is not the way to go. I think hospitals should be allowed to "uthanize" people who have that wish. It's their life, there bodies.. if they want to die then let them.. and let them go the best way possible.

But... that is just my opinion. *shrugs*

Actually that's how I feel also, but I still think his reasons aren't in her interest.

I also agree that starving people is wrong.

Nichole,

I am in agreement on the issue of no machines. I feel the same way. I would never want to be kept alive in that state.

Like you, I wouldnt want to be starved to death. IMO that's a cruel way to die. If death row can get lethal injection.........

I guess that would be too close to killing/murdering but I KNOW if it were me I would much rather lethal injection to starvation.

I went 16 days without eating or drinking during my transplant. I had IV fluids and parenteral nutrition. Even with that....I hope I never feel that way again. I cant even begin to imagine what Terry feels like. :(

I agree too, but the motives behind the husband, from what I've read, are questionable... I don't think there is enough evidence to support his claims, this is only on what little I've read though.
You're right... who says "If I lose my abilities to walk/eat/swallow, etc, please starve me to death."?! Personally, I've always said, more flippantly than seriously, that if I get to that stage, that I would want to die... but through much kinder means than starvation.

The poor Pope, when you saw him on Easter saying his speech, it was horrible! The poor man should be allowed some respite and maybe he should step down from some of his more important duties, which admittedly are already somewhat limited. :(
A little question Bo, is the Pope allowed to abdicate? I know that he wouldn't want to, (as if you'd want to give up the job of being the most holy person on the planet just before you pass over to the other side!) but we were discussing this the other day and Dan, born into a Catholic family, alter boy, privately educated in a CATHOLIC school, couldn't answer me that question! :rolleyes: You can see he's very *ahem* faithful! :rolleyes:

He can step down, but he cannot appoint the new pope. That is always done with the Cardinals in seclusive prayer and then the smoke comes from the vatican signalling the decision.

I am a convert..... I had to take classes.... believe me when I say most cradle catholics do not know it all.

I never heard about this... this is aweful! i cant beileve they let him do that!

:( They denied The request for an appeal.

13 days with no food or water...Her hubby wont even let her have ice chips to sooth her parched lips and mouth.

Ok and I'm also really ticked.

Terry's hubby is already planning an autopsy. Does he have no compassion for the parents? Terry is NOT dead yet.

oh my gosh! :o and shouldnt the parnets be dealing with this not him?!

Well, here goes my 2 cents, please don't ban me for having a different opinion! :(

1. She isn't feeling any pain, she can't feel anything at all, not happiness, not sadness, not hunger, nor thirst. She is brain-dead.

2. When you're dying you stop eating and drinking anyway. It is a part of death, it is how the body shuts itself down. My dad didn't eat or drink anything the last 2 weeks of his life. He too was pretty much braindead, not because of brain damage, but because of cancer that started in his pancreas and moved to his liver then to his brain. The difference is, he could talk. He did not remember who we were, or where he was, he did not know he was dying, but at the same time did not feel any pain. He died very peacefully.


3. She's been like this for 15 years, she's not going to get better. Is she really living? Who wants to spend another 15 years laying in a bed not knowing anything.

I know I personally wouldn't want to spend my life not being able to move, or know where I am, or know who my family is. The only part of her brain that still works is the stem, which allows her reflexes to come in. Thats the only reason she is moving, its just her brain trying to do at least something.

OK, that's my 2 cents. Please don't be mad at me :)

I do feel sorry for the girl, and the family, but I also think they should let her go.

Death is a part of life, and they're trying to keep her alive forever.

No-one is going to be mad at you because you have a different opinion... everyone has their own thoughts... unless you are a cyborg! :P
I agree on the point that she may not have wanted to live like this, but surely starvation is wrong. Euthanisation through other means would be much kinder and much more dignified. I would euthanise an animal humanely, so why not a person?
Euthanasia is such a taboo subject and an unsolvable problem that I find it difficult to get my head around the whole thing from all angles. There are so many pros and cons that I can understand the government's position to keep it illegal, at least in the UK it is... I'm not sure about where else.
I'm sorry to hear about your dad. :( It must've been terrible for you and your family. My granddad has cancer too and I'm just dreading it getting to the latter stages. It'll literally kill my gran to see him going through it. :(

I have just been watching the news and sadly Terry has passed away today. I wonder what is going to happen regarding other cases now.
Are all the husbands/wives/carers going to come out of the woodwork saying "my patient wanted to die too, so I'm going to take the feeding tube out."? This kind of situation opens up so much scope for abuse. :(

Exactly what I was thinking, Ang.

I think my hubby and I are going to work on some legal stuff soon. It's crazy.

MBLM, don't ever think you can't have your own opinions or belief system.

If there is something I would stress to everyone is that regardless of what one thinks, we can all still get a long really.

I think you are really right about a lot but the thing that has me very concerned with the Terry thing is that her "brain dead" state is not completely right. They claim she is, but brain death cannot allow you to breath on your own, etc. Those are functions in the brain.

She might very well have had dead spots, but there were a lot of people saying she was more there than people were being told.

It's hard to completely agree or disagree when we can't see for ourselves.

MBLM....No worries...we're human and never going to see eye to eye with everyone.

I agree with you in that I would NOT want to live that way. However, I would NOT want to die that way either.

As BBB said...all we know is what we're told so we can only assume things here. With the exception being...I have seen video tape of some of the things listed that she couldnt do.

MBLM wrote:

1. She isn't feeling any pain, she can't feel anything at all, not happiness, not sadness, not hunger, nor thirst. She is brain-dead.

On tape I saw her smile, heard her laugh. When asked by her father if she was in pain Terry answered yes. Maybe not as clearly as you or I but "yes" all the same. That's not brain dead.

I Agree with yoy 100% that she may not have wanted to live like that. I doubt anyone wants that life. I would definitely want death over that. My issue with this case was more along the lines of the cruel way that she died. Starvation is NOT dignified, nor is it painless. If we can offer a quick painless death to murderers....then why do we punish the innocent with a death like this?

This has broken my heart.

Lanna

If nothing else. I think they should have put her in a drug induced coma. I still think it's hard for families to see.

They get so dehydrated their mouth bleeds.

It's very sad :(

I wouldn't want to live like that either.... horrible situation.

What really urks me is that the husband didn't allow the family to be on her side when she died. They were in the room before she died but not as she died.

I know if I had a kid that was dying, I'd want to be right there with them and not get 'kicked' outta the room as my child was dying.

Yeah. That hubby doesn't seem to... I don't know... have feelings or something for them.... it's very sad.

BBB I guess there's so much animosity between the hubby and the family by now that he's out to hurt them...and possibly they are out to hurt him...any way they can. I know if that had been my daughter.....

I wont say what I'd do.

I truly feel for Terry and her family. I hope that they are at least allowed to grieve in peace.

Lanna

Terry's story is on A&E right now if anyone wants to check it out.

Its also on CNN

I just got home from work, I guess she passed away while I was there. It is sad, but I'm also glad it's over at the same time.

I send prayers to her family and to those who loved her.

Now this is an example of why I don't think the husband had her best interest in mind:

he is not allowing the parents to attend the funeral. This is the mother who went EVERY SINGLE DAY to see her for all of these years!!!!!

Oh my I hadn't heard that!!!

Is this posted on the internet somewhere?

I dont know if it's on the internet...but I've seen it on the news.

I watched the show on A&E. Even after being presented with some of hubby's evidence I still dont think he was concerned with what Terri would have wanted.

1. I dont think Terri wanted to starve to death.

2. I doubt Terri would have wanted him to have a fiance but refuse to divorce her.

3. I dont think Terri, a devout Catholic, would have wanted or understood how he could have 2 children with another women while still married to her.

4. I seriously doubt that Terri would have wanted her siblings ejected from the room as she was dying.

5. I'm sure Terri would not have wanted her parents banned from her funeral.

If he was really concerned with what Terri wanted then wouldnt her abide by some of the things he knows she would want?

FROM AP NEWS ONLINE:

Schiavo's body was taken in an unmarked white van with police motorcycle escort to the Pinellas County medical examiner's office, where an autopsy was planned that both sides hoped would shed light on the extent of her brain damage and whether she was abused by her husband, as the Schindlers have argued.

In what was the source of yet another dispute between the husband and his in-laws, Michael Schiavo will get custody of his wife's body and plans to have her cremated.

Michael Schiavo's brother, Scott Schiavo, said the ashes will be buried in an undisclosed location near Philadelphia so that her immediate family does not attend and turn the moment into a media spectacle. A funeral Mass, sought by the Schindlers, was tentatively scheduled for Tuesday or Wednesday.

Asked about perhaps never knowing where his sister might be buried, Bobby Schindler said, ``We've already said goodbye.

He's been doing this kind of stuff for 15 years. What would make him stop now?''