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Title: For The 9-11 Truthers
Description: something to think about


Forester - November 18, 2006 09:53 PM (GMT)
i live in nyc. i grew up 2 miles from the wtc. i would see the towers every day walking to the F train on East Broadway.

i became interested in the 9-11 truth movemant after watching "in plain sight" last year. it scared the crap out of me. but then i realized that there was a "pod" on plane on the cover of the damn video. that was it for "in plane sight" in my eyes.

then, i watched "loose change"...and i was thoroughly convinced. i told my parents, i told my friends, i told my co-workers, that 9-11 was an inside job and i have the evidence to prove it.

but then, i decided to just do a little research and i found the "guide to loose change".

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

it debunked much of loose change in my eyes, and i wondered "how could i have been so easily convinced??". but since then ive mostly believed that it was indeed an inside job or "mihop"...but then i watched "screw loose change"...and it all came crashing down.

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

the thing we hear most from the 9-11 conspiracy movemant was that 9-11 was inflicted upon us, inorder to scare the american people into supporting various unamerican legislation and foreign policies.

but look at the theories of these people. there are conspiracies by the freemasons, the zionists, the federal reserve, the council on foreign relations, the project for a new american century,
the world bank, etc etc. we constantly see rumors about imminent false-flag terror attacks...yet nothing happens. and instead of saying "we were wrong" we hear "our exposing the enemy made them cancel the attack". does anyone see a problem here??

and when it comes to 9-11 itself...the conspiracy movemant uses all sorts of dishonest strategies to defend their views. they rely upon "experts" who have no proffessional experience in what they are talking about. if i had a nickle for every time they claim "that could have been planted", "she could be lyieng", "he could be an agent"..i would be a rich man. they show pictures from hundreds of feet away, covered in smoke and fire and ask "do you see the hole?". these are not the statemants of people honestly looking for the truth. instead, these are the statemants of people who have already made up their minds, are looking to cherry pick for info that may support their claims, and will find no limit in the ways they will disregard info that doesnt fit their picture. just like what the neo-cons did with iraq's wmds.

the facts is..that those who claim to be exposing the fear tactics and dishonesty of bush and the neo-cons...are themselves practising those same qualities. i urge you to look at prisonplanet.com, scholars for 9-11 truth, and all the other sites, and take a good look at how much space and time they devote to fear.

franklin delano roosevelt was right when he said our greatest enemy is fear itself. i urge you to really question those who use fear...to expose fear. i urge you to question the tactics and message of those who see agents, conspiracies, sinister plots, under every rock and behind every tree.


IVXX - November 18, 2006 10:10 PM (GMT)
You talk dishonest tactics and then post a link by MarkyX and a link by the king of dishonest Mark Roberts himself??? :rolleyes:

http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Lies.pdf

Notice the url name. "WTC7_Lies" probably the only honest thing about it. Mr. Roberts is beyond dishonest in this paper.

Forester - November 18, 2006 10:21 PM (GMT)
i provided links to the loose change guide. it was not my intention for anyone to look at anything other then this document. perhaps there should be a rolling exchange of ideas between pro and con sites. this has been done between holocaust revisionist sites and groups like nizkor.org. maybe such a process can end debate on many of the claims.

but i stick to my main theme: fear is being used to combat fear...and its not right.

pdoherty76 - November 18, 2006 10:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Forester @ Nov 18 2006, 10:21 PM)
i provided links to the loose change guide. it was not my intention for anyone to look at anything other then this document. perhaps there should be a rolling exchange of ideas between pro and con sites. this has been done between holocaust revisionist sites and groups like nizkor.org. maybe such a process can end debate on many of the claims.

but i stick to my main theme: fear is being used to combat fear...and its not right.

Why are you playing the holocaust denial cause?

Who here is mentioning holocaust denial?

mainstreammedia - November 22, 2006 10:18 PM (GMT)
Well, we already know that you're an antisemite, and it seems like you're bringing it up yourself pdoherty...

Forester - November 24, 2006 07:13 PM (GMT)
i was not comparing "9-11 truthers" to holocaust deniers. dont play that b.s. game with me. it wont work.

all i was saying was that a holocaust denial site, and a site devoted to debunking their accusations and theories, regularly take on each others points, to have a sort of ongoing conversation. that sounded like a good idea to me.

but one day...all the ideas and theories of the 9-11 conspiracy movemant will be taken on by governmant and proffessional experts. they havent yet...probably because they dont think this movemant is really significant or worth dealing with.




pdoherty76 - November 25, 2006 07:33 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (JAStewart @ Nov 25 2006, 02:22 AM)
I keep hearing how the 'WTC7 lies' paper is completely rubbish and full of lies, can anyone please point these out?

Russell is producing a counter paper to it. Its just full of cherry picking and conjecture and ad hominem attacks. Its a pile of crap.

It pre empts the NIST report that hasnt been released yet, and its written by a tour guide, hardly an expert on builing collapse.

Russell is an former firefighter, so he will give us the true facts

JAStewart - November 25, 2006 09:21 AM (GMT)
Alright, but is Russell ACTUALLY writing a counter to it?

I remember people said that a Gravy debunk was in progress but that never happened...

pdoherty76 - November 25, 2006 09:29 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (JAStewart @ Nov 25 2006, 09:21 AM)
Alright, but is Russell ACTUALLY writing a counter to it?

I remember people said that a Gravy debunk was in progress but that never happened...

Yes russell will follow through.

Mike Chambers - November 25, 2006 10:38 AM (GMT)
Forester,

Based on your initial post in this thread, you appear very impressionable. Might I suggest you conduct your own research and reach your own conclusions. Don't take anybody's word for it, thoroughly check it out for yourself. At least in your mind you'll be satisfied with the answers that you find.

thehighwaymanq - December 3, 2006 09:36 PM (GMT)
the whole loose change guide thing on how loose change is now debunked and we all been lied to is annoying



there are hardly 0 cites or links to any of there information


why should i believe them

seek_the_truth - December 3, 2006 10:18 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (thehighwaymanq @ Dec 3 2006, 09:36 PM)
the whole loose change guide thing on how loose change is now debunked and we all been lied to is annoying



there are hardly 0 cites or links to any of there information


why should i believe them

Yeah that.


NK-44 - December 3, 2006 11:59 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
i provided links to the loose change guide


thanks for that, never heared of it before :lol:




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