This whole conspiracy nonsense falls apart on one simple question that is NEVER fully addressed nor answered.

What happened to the HUNDREDS of passengers on the planes?

We all know how hard it is to keep a secret between a few people let alone a grand conspiracy that would need to involve THOUSANDS of peple.

What kind of human being would volunteer to make his wife or husband and children believe he or she was dead?

What kind of human being would fake his or her own death and make their parents suffer?

What about all the school children? Did their parents willingly just let their children die for some pay-off?

How many government people would it take to pull such a massive murder of it's own citizens?



And if the government did kidnap, capture, and kill the passengers then why the need for all this phony plane crashes to begin with? Why not just crash the planes by remote control with said passengers on the planes thus no need for the Pentagon conspiracy issues?

I am 46 years old. Well educated, 2 degrees one in Pre-Med and one in Finance.

I guess most of you are fairly young early teens to mid 20's with a handful of older folks thrown in.

The bottom line is I want a PLAUSIBLE explanation of what happened to all of these people.

No bogus Israeli agent nonsense either.

Just answer the one simple question.

If you can't answer that question and provide EVIDENCE to support it then your whole conspiracy premise falls apart.

I even saw one Loose Change supporter admit his beliefs didn't make sense, but he still was holding on to them. Almost like a religious faith.

People died. Men, women, and children. There is no magic place these people were sent to.

Asia Cottom and Bernard Brown NEVER returned to school. Sarah Clark never returned to teach her classes. Barbara Olson vanished.

Come on people. Your questions and "theories" only create more questions.

You fail to answer these very simple question. Where are the people who were on those planes?

IF Flight 77 was a missle then where did the people vanish to?

I dont' want any red herrings about wreckage, Israelie agents, or alien invaders.

Just answers with documentation and proof.

The sad thing is many of you are spending your lives perpetuating a lie and I do think most of you are well meaning, but come on. Think for yourselves on just this one question.

Where are the passengers?

1) That is what you think but this is entirely untrue. I guess you would only know that if you were a dedicated 9/11 researcher or a genuine truth seeker.

2) Don't know yet, that's why I investigate. Holes in the official story, the feds lose their credibility so how can you believe them?

3) You are referring to small secrets. There is a tangible difference between a big lie and a small lie. See Project Manhattan. Watch 'Capricorn One' for an example of intelligence compartmentalization.

4) I don't believe anyone 'volunteered'.

5) Ken Lay? http://KenLayIsAlive.org

6) I feel for all the children of this planet.

7) I doubt anyone would willingly give up their kids.

8) 42 Most Likely 9/11 Conspirators

9) Problem-Reaction-Solution (thesis, antithesis, synthesis) requires a 'psy-op' ("new pearl harbor like catalyzing event") for the transition from a Constitutional Republic into an Empire.

10) The Pentagon was a big part of the psy-op. There were getting ready for something. Investigate the drills at the Pentagon on Oct. 24-26 2000 and maybe you can uncover more details.

11) I'm almost 30.

12) Good guess. I don't assume to know. The people I meet from http://9-11.Meetup.com are ALL walks of life so that is why I would be hesitant to categorize by age groups based on hyperbole.

13) I can discuss other aspects of 9/11 more clearly. This is inherently the most secretive and mysterious aspect of 9/11 but does not discount all the other holes in the official theory.

14) Pretentious

15) There is evidence of unclear dealings and anomolies regarding the passengers. Do more research. Look into Cleveland and ask around for more info. The lack of clarity swirling around the passengers on 9/11 does not mean we should not question other clues.

16) Right on. Knowledge=power. Just because he couldn't communicate certain aspects well doesn't mean his concerns were unwarranted. There is so much material and red flags that it is easy to spread yourself thin. Try watching http://WKJO.com and remembering all the details the 1st time or even the 3rd.

17) I agree. Read "Dear 9/11 Family Members".

18) So does the official 9/11 theory. Prove Bin Laden orchestrated 9/11 because the FBI or DoJ can't.

19) Not sure. I hope we find out someday and I will never quit searching for the truth.

20) Not sure.

21) Pretentious statement. I could say the same about you but I would rather you learn that for yourself. I am willing to show you the door but you have to walk through it with your own 2 feet.

22) Not sure but I'm happy to cover things I do know more about.

Catch up quick:

Read any books by Prof. Dr. David Ray Griffin. There are so many clues beyond Loose Change, it's like drinking from a firehouse. Pre-order DRG's latest book 'Debunking 9/11 Debunking'. Until then here is a crash course mini-documentary/shorts thread that will give you a better perspective of what kind of evidence of culpability we are talking about here:



Link to mini-docs/shorts thread on 911movement.org forums:
http://TinyURL.com/yrjp5v
or
http://forum.911movement.org/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=872&hilit=

Link to mini-docs/shorts thread on LooseChange Forums:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...t=ST&f=9&t=6683

Peace.

So in other words you have no answers for the question about the pasengers and all those people? I thought so!

Anybody else want to try and answer the question and not tap dance around it?

well i'm tap dancing now! Nobody here has a definite answer. In the video they said that they went into a NASA facility. Maybe they did go in and they became human test subjects? We don't know the answers...100% at least, but we are trying to figure it out. Chuck made some good points about it, but he can't answer it because he wasn't a passenger.

Still looking for their remains. So were assume they're dead.

supposedly many of the pentagon plane victims worked for defense contractors as well

If those that perpetrated this disaster were willing to kill the inhabitants of the WTC, and at the Pentagon, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem to dis-appear the passengers on the planes.

A good question should be; how were a majority of the passengers identified from DNA in crashes that completely disintegrated the planes?
There was nothing left of Flight 93, or the one that supposedly hit the Pentagon.
Where did the DNA come from?
Was it scraped out of the dirt?

Gee, you think a government that is willing to sacrifice 3000 lives in the WTC attack would hesitate to wack a few 1/2 filled airliners?

Strawman argument.

Here is something I wrote on another forum.

You guys are absurd.

The passengers are NOT living on some secret island as millionaires, nor were they spirited off the planes and taken to some underground lab to be exterminated.

Those really are the only two options..

WELL you do have two more options. The planes were hijacked by Terrorist and they did crash (The truh) or the planes were hijacked by our Government and were crashed via remote control, but then no one here believes a plane hit the Pentagon nor Crashed in Pa. (Flight 93) so how can some of you argue some drone/remote control theory while saying no planes crashed??

Plus the evidence shows the men were in the country before Bush took office and the planning took 2 or 3 years. Bush will be out of office in 2008 and for alll we know Democrats may hold the White House for the next 4, 8, 12, 16 whatever years so WHAT would Bush have to gain or our government have to gain by doing this as we never know which political party would be in power.

The TRUTH is they were on the planes, which means they did crash, which blows this stupid Loose Change Conspiracy nonsense right out of the water.

This site is a disgrace to all those who perished and you are just victimizing the surviving family members with a callous disregard for the pain and suffering.

A conspirace to make hundreds of people vanish , 4 planes crash or disappear, and the intentional destruction of numerous buildings at a cost of BILLIONS and BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars to the private and public sector would have taken THOUSANDS of participants and NEVER could be pulled off without someone leaking the information.

Do you think the New York Times or the Washington Post would not find out about this??? There are TRULY no secrets in Washington.

And what would the press, especially the New York Times, have to gain by keeping silent or becoming complicet in such an act??

No this Loose Change stuff is nothing but paranoia and sensationalism and profiteering from a national tragedy.

Rupe do yourself a favour & do some research, instead of dumbing down this forum.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...p?showtopic=750

Dude you can divide my IQ by 2 and it'll still be more than yours.

I guess when you can't debate the issues you want the opposition to be silenced.

first. o_O ....how are you getting this information?

Second. Shut the hell up. You think you're the only one that knew people who died? My uncle was in WTC1, i want to know, why did he die!? Why did my uncle have to loose his life to a goddamn war?? I give no disrespect to the friggin dead, but i want to know the truth.

Third. If they were on the planes, are you saying that the calls that they made were all 100% true? I've said in a post on this site that I've tried that, yes a cellphone on a SMALL (not huge airliner) but a flight from IAD to Knoxville TN. The call, to my father, did NOT work, if i could i would get a sound bite of what i heard. It sounded like "when you call somebody who has a internet and phone cable in the same line". So i say that no they couldn't have used cellphones, YES air phones, but NOT cellphones.

4. We aren't saying that no planes crashed. Look at the WTC crashes, those are obviously planes and others who say different are the ones who are just...blind. But the pentagon and PA sites are skeptical in our views. You look at the sites, lets look at this. 1. The hole in the pentagon for some reason or another, does NOT fit the angle of the plane...nor does it show wings and tail. Just the center cabin. The PA crash site...basically nothing but a hole. The pilot of the PA plane (who if i'm not mistaken was hani hanjour...correct me if i'm wrong) could have NOT flown a plane with that precision...then hitting in to the ground. That what i just said is my own opinion.

5. BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars were made because of all the put options placed on stock. maybe not billions, you get the idea.

6. Of course DC has secrets. The frigging name says it. "The Secret Service" ooo...i wonder if they are secretive? And the media, they can't do jack. The government in a way...god i forget the name of the organization, controls the media. They allow what goes on the air (remember the incident with JT and JJ? Government was all over that)
There are also numerous occasions on the fact that the government IS secretive. Lets look at Watergate? Wasn't that a big coverup? Shh, it's a secret.

So please, don't EVER say that we don't care for those who died on the planes. Take that up your ass and NEVER say that again. You say we are? You blashphemise (word i made up) my uncles name by saying that people who want to know are just not caring. Also, your IQ is lower if you divide it by two. 2 / 2 = 1

A simple question. A good question. You'd think there'd be a simple answer. Let's narrow your question a bit, and consider a small subset of the passengers: the hijackers. Amazingly, there's quite a bit ofconfusion in that apparently some of those folks are alive.

Should be easy - just check the Passenger List right?

Maybe there's a reasonable explanation to this. It's a different story from small kerosene fires causing buildings to symmetrically collapse in on themselves. Maybe someone got confused on the spelling of the names. But unfortunately, they've already published their pictures, "magically" found Atta's passport (and even his will!) in the dust and rubble, hard to extricate yourself once committed in this manner.

It is often attributed to Shakespeare, but it was another poet who said "what a tangled web we weave, when at first we attempt to deceive."

Do you in the same manner criticize Pat Tillman's family for trying to get to the bottom of what happened in Afghanistan, with a friendly-fire incident covered up with a manufactured story?

It is people like you who are a disgrace, who wrap themselves in the misfortunes of others in order to attack this site. It is you who are disrespectful - *DO* not speak for others.

Did you take 3 minutes to scroll through that site?

The reason Ken Lay would fake his death is because he was about to go to prison for the rest of his life. If he fakes his death, people obviously won't want to put him in prison since he's no longer among the living. There's a reason for it.

These passengers didn't need to fake their deaths for any reason.

Again, here is a glaring problem. The DoD, the 9/11 Commission, and the MSM can't seem to get their "facts" straight. Counting the number of people were "supposed" to be on those flights is a relatively simple task, yet it is one that hasn't been done yet.

I looked up the passenger list for the pentagon flight.

Only 64 people onboard a boeing 757? Whats more, the list is kinda weird, the only normal passengers seem to be a group of teachers and students, for some National Geographic thing, and theres not that many people there for that. Check this out, this is whats kinda interesting to me, there seems to have been alot of high ranking people on board. See, even the CNN site I got the passenger list from, gave descriptions of the people, and thats what made me notice the higher up people on board, then some people had no description, when you google them, you find that alot of them werent normal civillians either, I put stuff that stood out to me in bold, check it out:

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues.

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot .

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Bryan Jack , 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby , 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Chandler Keller , 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer .

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm.

Those are just some of the names that had descriptions with them from CNN. So theres 13 people out the small ammount of 64. So already, 1/5th of the passengers have high ranking connections in government, and are senior executives and CEOs of bussinesses that work with the government. Plus 2 Boeing engineers, and an electrical engineer, which, is just a little odd, but who knows, maybe not, but then, look at the passengers that didnt have descriptions, I had to search alot for any info on these people:

John D. Yamnicky, Sr., Captain, United States Navy.

Mary Jane "MJ" Booth, this one is kinda weird cause there wasnt alot of info even though almost every person on the flights seems to actually have alot of info about them, DOB, unknown as far as I could tell, AND, an American Airlines employee for 45 years, worked for 30 years as the secretary for American Airlines general manager at Dulles International Airport.

William Caswell, Physicist, U.S. Navy , this one is really really weird, but I might jsut be paranoid. See, one of the first hits that came up on google for this name, was for a site for families to look up family members that had ever served in the army, for this guy, it said: Status: Killed In Action from an incident on 05/27/1966 while performing the duty of Aircraft Commander. OK, could be someone else right? Well, according to that site, he was 26 and a half when he "died" in '66. meaning he would have been 54 on 9/11. The William Caswell that is listed as dying on 9/11, was 54. Still could be 2 different people, either way, this guy was still a high ranking Physicist for the US Navy when he died (again?) on 9/11.

Eddie Dillard, retired Marketing Manager with Philip-Morris, which, of course is involved with the brainwashing of Americans through all the horrible shit in cigs, and with making sure Americans dont live long enough for the companies they work for to have to pay out retirement funds.

Charles Albert Droz III, Lieutenant Commander, United States Navy, and Vice President of EM Solutions, that does information technologies and systems engineering.

Richard P. Gabriel, 1st Lieutenant, Navy Marine Corps (retired).

Yvonnem Kennedy , senior Administrator with the Red Cross.

Dong Lee, another hard one to find info about, but, he was appearenly a scientist/engineer at Boeing Co. Space and Communications which "produces space vehicles, and launches satellites".

Norma Langsteuerle , could find no info about her.

Norma Lang Steuerle, same person as above, but appearently spelled differently depending on which passenger list you read. She was a family therapist, and was getting ready to fly to Okinawa, Japan to visit her 28-year-old Navy doctor daughter.

Stanley Hall, worked at Lockheed Martin.

George Simmons, retired Manager of Sales at Xerox. Xerox by the way was recently was being talked about puting devices in copy machines, fax machines, and scanners that store information of what goes through them, and can be sent to government agencies to look over or be stored and accessed later by a Xerox employee.

Diane Simmons, wife of the above. And the name of the News Anchor Woman on Family Guy....

John Sammartino , Technical Manager of XonTech Inc.

Todd Reuben, Washington DC attorney.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice.

So this list covers about 30 of the people on board the plane that hit the pentagon, over half the passengers. Notice how many were Navy men, members of government organizations, and high ranking members of business that work closely with government agencies.

I did this list to see who the government chose to knock off that day, since I assume they would kill people that would benefit them, to get a double wammy out of it.

The remaining passengers were mostly the teachers and students doing the National Geographic thing. Its interesting also that high ranking people from National Geographic were going with them, but why? Why would the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program need to go with kids on a trip? Why would the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society go with them when all she did was set up the trip?

Odd stuff man, doing this, might in some ways show that the people on board were chosen to die that day, even if I'm not sure why....

Enjoy some of my trivial research.

I think they were killed when the planes landed.

They must be dead.... they were killed in that NASA building

I can think of many scenarios on what happened to the passengers but it takes some pretty impressive mental gymnastics to think that because we aren't in a position to know every little detail of what happened that day, that somehow negates all the other smoking guns. I guess WTC7 DIDN'T implode because dipsh^t here isn't smart enough to see the big picture. Pretty funny though, people with very little knowledge about any of this stuff claiming to be some sort of authority on it. :lol:

Only a simpleton would try to take something so utterly complex and make an "either/or" scenario out of it. Quite simply...with threads like this its seems somewhat obvious that you simply aren't smart enough to get it.

Roxdog, why do you go the personal attack route every time you get the opportunity? If I were a moderator, I would have banned you a long time ago. All you do is anger people.

Personal attacks like comparing good people to douchebags like Sean Hannity, or insinuating that anyone suggesting evil Arab cavemen weren't behind 9/11 is a gullible, paranoid nutcase? Those kinds of personal attacks?

Anger is a gift.

Sean Hannity and the people to whom I was referring both ignore a lot of pretty obvious science and think that anyone parroting the global warming theory is a propagandist trying to destroy the country. It's a valid comparison.

I have never insinuated that anyone is a gullible, paranoid nutcase, and I challenge you to provide evidence of me insinuating such a thing.

Now stop being so damned angry all the time.

It isn't a valid comparison, it's an insult. The very same thing you cry about others doing. And once again, calling something ""obvious" doesn't make it so...only a retard would call something obvious without pointing out why so maybe my comparison is valid too, huh?

I was refering to the person who started this thread, the person i was responding to before you popped in to prove to everyone that you're a hypocrite...

Kiss my @ss.

I am new to all this so please forgive me if I don't have all the answers.

I think what Rupe is doing is exactly what this site encourages, asking questions and demanding answers.

What I would ask that he do is to think over this; being a learned individual and seeminly intelligent person, perhaps even one that knows something about the laws of physics, laws and results that would be very difficult to fake, how can you dismiss the evidence such as a building constructed in a fashion that would make it very dificult to knock down with a plane, let alone a fire, this very same building fell at the same rate of speed as an unobstructed object. Given this fact we must conclude that this building was assisted in it's fall. The other thing I would point out is the fall of Tower 7. It suposedly sucombed (sp?) to the "fire" ignited by material from the North and South towers, and as a result, it fell at the same rate. Lastly, and what I feel may be the more absurd and disturbing, was the discovery of a passport that survived in conditions that reportedly did enough damage to cause two of the most well constructed buildings to topple in a manner inconsist with even the farthest stretch of the laws of phsics, and it did so untouched.

Now, to wrap this up, if any of the ablove mentioned facotrs, no matter how outlandish it may seem, is true, then that puts into question everything we have been told about what happened. And if the persons, God love and protect them, that died in the fall of the towers, did so with the full knowledge and conscent of our "leaders", then would it be that hard to believe that a body of persons that are willing to kill so many, would have no qualms about killing a few more.

I encourage Rupe to continue his questioning not only in this forum, but to those most qualified to answer the questions...those persons residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Keep asking questions, keep seeking truth, but never ever ask a question if you are not truly ready to hear the answer.

Good Luck.

greetings all.. new to the site. glad to be here. my take on it after viewing many vids and reading alot of documents was that the body count was provided to a point. the dopes claimed everyone at the Pentacon was VAPORIZED as well as the plane, but the buildings true victimspentagon workers) bodies were transported to Dover. supposedly at the same time "recovered remains" from Pennsylvania was also transported there. didnt happen like that but close enuff for GOV. work. YUCK YUCK. they marched those people into a hanger and maybe,maybe gave them a choice;those who chose wrong got whisked to langley then hopped to Dover. wild theory.com

A high precentage of the passengers were either connected to the government or private military contractors and/or were fundie xians.

Most of the Let's Roll Team were fundie xians.

Is it possible that BushCo used a few 'true believers' who were willing to die for their cause to help carry out the attacks?

Whoa, that's a stretch.

If theories are true, then the Govt. killed them, and 'disposed' of the bodies.

This whole conspiracy nonsense falls apart on one simple question that is NEVER fully addressed nor answered.

conspiracy:.. person A gets togather and talks to person B, about person C... saying "prove what happened to the passangers or your theory is shot"...is kinda insane...right?

What happened to the HUNDREDS of passengers on the planes?

get the actual numbers first.....then prove it, and see how many of the families collected the 9/11 fund money......

We all know how hard it is to keep a secret between a few people let alone a grand conspiracy that would need to involve THOUSANDS of peple.

go into detail about the inner working of the 33rd degree freemasons....then lets discuss what happenes in the tomb at yale.... mannhatten project? prove it would take thousands.

What kind of human being would volunteer to make his wife or husband and children believe he or she was dead?

the kind who didnt know, id assume.

What kind of human being would fake his or her own death and make their parents suffer?

the government document OPERATION NORTHWOODS suggested mock victoms, and mock funerals.

What about all the school children? Did their parents willingly just let their children die for some pay-off?

what chilldren?..and prove the recieved large sums of money.

How many government people would it take to pull such a massive murder of it's own citizens?

thousands...... but how many actually knew what was going on?..under 100..



And if the government did kidnap, capture, and kill the passengers then why the need for all this phony plane crashes to begin with? Why not just crash the planes by remote control with said passengers on the planes thus no need for the Pentagon conspiracy issues?

I am 46 years old. Well educated, 2 degrees one in Pre-Med and one in Finance.

I guess most of you are fairly young early teens to mid 20's with a handful of older folks thrown in.

The bottom line is I want a PLAUSIBLE explanation of what happened to all of these people.

No bogus Israeli agent nonsense either.

Just answer the one simple question.

If you can't answer that question and provide EVIDENCE to support it then your whole conspiracy premise falls apart.

I even saw one Loose Change supporter admit his beliefs didn't make sense, but he still was holding on to them. Almost like a religious faith.

People died. Men, women, and children. There is no magic place these people were sent to.

Asia Cottom and Bernard Brown NEVER returned to school. Sarah Clark never returned to teach her classes. Barbara Olson vanished.

Come on people. Your questions and "theories" only create more questions.

You fail to answer these very simple question. Where are the people who were on those planes?

IF Flight 77 was a missle then where did the people vanish to?

I dont' want any red herrings about wreckage, Israelie agents, or alien invaders.

Just answers with documentation and proof.

The sad thing is many of you are spending your lives perpetuating a lie and I do think most of you are well meaning, but come on. Think for yourselves on just this one question.

Where are the passengers?


are you seriously using that old ploy?....were are the planes?. as proof to no government involvement?....lol... your joking right?.....

do you have evidence to support your theories?

1) name the FBI officer who found the passport on ground zero
2) name the FBI officer, who broke into ATTAS rental car and found the "list of 19 hijackers"
3) name the source for the bin laden "confession tapes"
4) why did the planes fly around for 2 hours with no military intervention?
5) who had NORAD stand down?
6) was AA77 positively ID'd after re-apearing on radar?
7) were the parts found at the pentagon positivly ID'd as coming from AA77?
8.) what made the tailsection inprint in the shanksville crater?
9) assuming you sayd "tailsection" where is it?
10) how did bush see the first impact before entering the classroom?

please prove your theory..

Hello everyone, I too am a newby to the site. So just to qualify myself before anyone takes shots at me, I am an ex-military man with two degrees. 1 an AA in natural science and the other a BA in Computers and video imaging. I think I am an intelligent person. I am a sceptic about all things to a sensible degree and I am not really prone to being a conspiacy theorist as a whole.

I was quite impressed with what I saw in the film. I believe that there are just too many coincidences and contrary facts to fully accept the government version of events. The producers brought up a lot of evidence in the film and there is plenty of contrary evidence in other places that reflect a cover-up of some kind or another related to the events of 911.

There has always been an abundance of propoganda coming from the Bush administration regarding 911 (and everything else they do). They attempted to do the same thing when they promised us WOMD in Iraq. And lest we forget the bent chads in Florida. Of course nothing ever came of those questions either. The ultimate fact is that we already know that the people involved in this administration are liars and thieves.

But to get to the point. I would have to believe that the lives of the passengers and the thousands that died in the towers were considered to be collateral damage. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. When you stop to consider the amounts of money involved here and the free reign that these events have provided for our government to further erode the constitution then you can understand how insignificant those numbers truly are in the big picture.

Bush and many others in our government all come from the same skull and bones, self entitled, silver spoon families that see regular people as chattle in their little game of world dominance. If you do not think that they are capable of sacrificing anyone or anything to get what they ultimately want then you are absolutely deluded.

I don't know whether the story offered in the film is accurate or not, but the facts they offer as proof are compelling and sure as hell better than any proof offered by our government to date to prove otherwise.

The ultimate fact is that the passengers are dead...The question that should nag us now is how did they die? Do we believe the press version of events? Do we believe the government version of events or is there maybe another set of facts that more thoroughly explain everything?

It is obvious that we cannot trust bush or any other person in his administration for straight answers. So I would just have to say, question everything except the known facts. The real truth will be in there somewhere and when all else fails, follow the money. Ask yourself who is getting rich from all of this and you'll find the ultimate truth.

9/11 was nothing more then a psy-op....

the mass public needs NO evidence for the claims of whos guilty, they just want revenge, and safty.... facts,proof,evidence, do not come into play...

Sorry, I just HAD to create a account, but from reading the forums since pretty much day one if you notice the arguments vs actual questions about what happen seem to always tie back to a "newb".

Rupe for example, his/her comments come right after bush says "f" ya'll i don't care about your vote, i'm blowing up iraq because they got us.. "not exact words" but you get the point. Prior to this you have Hilary saying, you know what, I kinda know whats going on, vote for me so I can end the pointless war. I can go on and on..

Not going to bore you with my "wink wink" DEGREES "wink wink" to try to con you into thinking why I should be the main voice of reason, just stating a few FACTS.

Same goes for most all the other threads, look back, read up, watch the posts and then look at what was being said about 9/11 attacks in the news prior to the posts.. seems as if the government knows this site is here, can't shut it down, so let's just throw more doubt in .. but they oonly do it when they do something dumb in the media.. I mean, if I just happen to get a copy of the dvd, thought it was full of s**t, why would i even my time out of my life to get online to start arguing a point I think is dumb in the first place? If I have doubts, then i'll check it out, ask a question or two, but for the first post you ever make to just be a blast on the entire theory, you either are one of them, or just really really a bored no-life person... reminds me of that irritating voice you hear in the background yelling "hit him, hit him" when your just at verbal confrontation over something petty..

I am not saying I aggree with the whole loose change theory, and again I am saying that yes, something is REALLY wrong about the whole thing.

From having a close relative who made it out of the wtc, and hearing from his/her mouth about a particular bomb that went off on the 4th floor where he/she works, which is why he/she is still alive, because when you hear a boom, it's time to go.. can't see a plane making an imaginary bomb go off on the 4th floor when the plane hit over 70 stories higher... wtf .. my son is smarter than what some of the stuff they are trying to make us beleive and he's 2...

This whole debate on the whole subject reminds me of religon. When your born, you don't god,devil,christian,jew,buddist,etc,.. your TRAINED by whoever your parents/gaurdians were to believe it because you know no better, and when you doubt it or at least decide to figure it out on your own, you are now the outcast of the society from which you were bought up in becase you question something that was instilled in them the same way they did you .. Gov/Media .. is doing just that on this subject, WE DON'T know .. and those that try to figure it out are being ousted .. Bush clearly made this point valid when he decided the troops stay when WE THE PEOPLE, who are supposed to vote on crap like this, had no say so ..

More people are questioning, so now it's going from "for the concern and safety of our people" to "there're having doubts, f%$# em', i'll do it anyway without them then"

Now, I may be off on a few things, but these are just MY opinions, but as far as the wtc is concerned, and what I "KNOW" ... the wtc was planned, by who? can't say, but did the gov. know ... YUP.....

Back to the FIRST paragraph I wrote, wouln't be suprised if these people were in on it in some way and all they do is go around trying to convince the world "My god is -the- god, unless you can prove me different" But the problem is you can't prove your side either... so at least ask a question before you decide to just start knocking on everyones opinion.. When you do that, that just lets me know that you are NOT that educated otherwise, you would know this already ...

WTC ... Planned, Gov. Involved
People on plane ... I have no clue ..
Pentagon ... stagged and fake as hell (even the media cameras can atest to LC)

If "I" had to pick and choose right this second, I would say, that the u.s. decided that they want to control all the oil, even in the countries we have no power over, so to kill off a couple thousand ppl, is worth it for the overall .. If we own the oil, we own the world. So basically 2nd & 3rd world countries say, just give us money.. and it's yours. So they devise this scheme to get this retarded amount of money without having to be questioned on why they are doing it (because the american people would have said, hell no, we not paying that, can't get 10k for school books, but you want us to support this? HAH), and now we have the money (gold) to buy it, but now that the gov. went ahead and did what we did to get the money, the little countries thought, WOW, it's that important that they did it that way to get the lute, we gotta hold out for more or just keep it..... so they backed out, pissed off bush, so thats why he trying to fight like a madman now otherwise the the plan he had (as dumb as it was in the first place) would have been for nothing so now in his conscience, he's just a plain ol' murderer, so this whole war thing is whats keeping to keep beleiving he MUST do the dumb things he keeps doing to make him beleive he's not a murderer ( yea, I said it! ).. thats -MY THEORY- on the whole thing ...

agreed. its called indoctrination.i am 48 years old and vividly remember watching television sitting with my grandfather when JFK was killed. in school we were still (thank GOD)doing our pledge of allegiance and duck and cover exercises. as i progressed thru school the curriculum would change depending on current events.when we would start the school year our books were handed down. they were dog-eared and well worn. when we started getting NEW books,the histories and content were changed so drastically it did nothing but confuse. we were told that Black Panthers,Hells Angels and hippies were evil and violent. anyone protesting our involvement in Vietnam was anti-american.also reflected in textbooks. too many things didnt make sense then,my grandfather was a veteran and would talk to me about things not exactly accurate. it ended up sending me on a private quest to investigate Vietnam. Long story short... by the time i figured it out,it was too late. in todays infowars its alot easier to dig into the TRUTH. do not allow these PNAC ers to convince you its a religious waror that they know how to fix it.its about control and domination. hard to control a people with martial law,unless they think its to keep them safe. FALSE FLAG OP anyone?..

I may have come into this a little late, but I found this quote funny. Nobody has the power to definitively declare what is the truth and what is not.

ACCORDING TO AIRPORT LOG, THEY WENT INTO A BUILDING, WERE NOT SEEN LEAVING WHEN PLANE TOOK OFF

Which airport, was it Cleveland ?

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I'm a big fan of the Loose Change video and find much of it compelling. One thing that wasn't clear to me from the video, though, is WHY the government would go to the trouble of landing the planes at Cleveland airport, unloading everyone, and eventually killing them, if they all would have just died on the airplanes anyways. Was it so that they couuld make the voice recordings for the alleged phone calls that were made from the plane? It just doesn't make sense to me that the gov would go through all that trouble just to get those voice recordings, since I'm pretty sure everyone would believe that terrorists were involved in the plane crash even without the recordings. Maybe we needed some kind of heroes to emerge from the day? I don't know, but I'd appreciate some enlightenment on this, it's the part I have the most trouble understanding. Looking forward to the Final Cut -

agree with theox, some clarification would be useful on this - rudie i'm 33.