Title: Vent Structure Door
Pentagon reality check - January 7, 2008 07:40 AM (GMT)
Happy New Year all. Now, anyone care to exlain this?
Many people have talked about the damage to the vent/exhaust structure on the alleged left engine trajectory - where it was said to be basically scraping the ground. Indeed, the damage lines up. ASCE:
For those who don't know this is it:
Locate that same spot in this photo, note also the angled 'doors' (I'm not sure what exactly) and you have a basic idea of the scale of the vent structurre - mostly recessed below ground level.
A later Ingersoll shot shows something like a camera or a light inside this thing - also note wall damage, and sloping lid-like edge, discussed below.
Here's an above shot during cleanup - things are moved around:
source: Desmoulins
Some cite the back wall being gone as evidence the engine took it out entirely. I'm leaning towards there never was one. People had to get in their sometimes.
What's between the walls is less studied. We'll look at the 'doors' last. First the two intact structures on the left (as seen above): these are intact and in all photos. Cool. Boring.
Next: the one on the right, at the entry corner. In the overhead shot, it's gone - just a base. In early shots it's barely visible. I've looked everywhere and cannot see the top of it, just the edge. but it seems to be a panel/door, perhaps pushed down, definitely tilted at an angle relative to the walls, and bent at the corner nearest the engine entry point. Note also a large gap between these spots - something is missing.
Then the easternmost structure, top center in the overhead shot: again in later shots this is just a footprint, its top stuff removed. I propose this is where the angled 'doors' originally were, before being spun off to the left by something. Note in the overhead shot, where it's been moved and re-oriented, the right-hand door has a distinctive line of black stuff, and a missing corner.
Compare that to this, a cropped J. augustino photo.
Same grime, proportions, lip - and a corver curved on a scale of several feet. I'd guess this was right on a path between that retaining wall chip and the foundation damage.
Also note at left what I think Desmoulins labeled 'scorched metal' - its properties indicate ventialtion ducts.
See also my blog: Vent Structure Damage
Many people have talked about the damage to the vent/exhaust structure on the alleged left engine trajectory - where it was said to be basically scraping the ground. Indeed, the damage lines up. ASCE:
For those who don't know this is it:
Locate that same spot in this photo, note also the angled 'doors' (I'm not sure what exactly) and you have a basic idea of the scale of the vent structurre - mostly recessed below ground level.
A later Ingersoll shot shows something like a camera or a light inside this thing - also note wall damage, and sloping lid-like edge, discussed below.
Here's an above shot during cleanup - things are moved around:
source: Desmoulins
Some cite the back wall being gone as evidence the engine took it out entirely. I'm leaning towards there never was one. People had to get in their sometimes.
What's between the walls is less studied. We'll look at the 'doors' last. First the two intact structures on the left (as seen above): these are intact and in all photos. Cool. Boring.
Next: the one on the right, at the entry corner. In the overhead shot, it's gone - just a base. In early shots it's barely visible. I've looked everywhere and cannot see the top of it, just the edge. but it seems to be a panel/door, perhaps pushed down, definitely tilted at an angle relative to the walls, and bent at the corner nearest the engine entry point. Note also a large gap between these spots - something is missing.
Then the easternmost structure, top center in the overhead shot: again in later shots this is just a footprint, its top stuff removed. I propose this is where the angled 'doors' originally were, before being spun off to the left by something. Note in the overhead shot, where it's been moved and re-oriented, the right-hand door has a distinctive line of black stuff, and a missing corner.
Compare that to this, a cropped J. augustino photo.
Same grime, proportions, lip - and a corver curved on a scale of several feet. I'd guess this was right on a path between that retaining wall chip and the foundation damage.
Also note at left what I think Desmoulins labeled 'scorched metal' - its properties indicate ventialtion ducts.
See also my blog: Vent Structure Damage
fedzcametogetme - January 7, 2008 09:13 AM (GMT)
dude, and i dont mean this to be confrontational: i have NO idea what ur trying to say. could u please state in simple terms what the above is attempting to prove? i have read it twice, very slowly the second time, and still dont quite grasp what ur asserting. from what i do get, are u saying these two objects are the same?
or did i misunderstand u?
or did i misunderstand u?
Pentagon reality check - January 7, 2008 11:22 PM (GMT)
Sorry to be confusing. It's mostly a visual thing I didn't have energy to over-explain. The nicked retaining wall is labeled 'damaged wall' in the above shot (covered up in yours). I'ts the south-facing wall. The 'low-wall- of concrete dividers is the east wall, so a different thing entirely. I'm not sure if that was there at all at impact time, or if so if it ever spanned across to be removed in the attack or that side was just left open I don't know.
My main point was the curved door, because as far as I've seen no one else has made this connection. Look again at the big photo, then this:
Maybe I did the layout wrong, but that's the gist. Two direct indications of engine damage, plus missing stuff, a pile of vent metal, another skewed and bent lid, drawing a line through the vent structure on the official trajectory. If a very low plane didn't do this, then how? Was it too staged in advance?
My main point was the curved door, because as far as I've seen no one else has made this connection. Look again at the big photo, then this:
Maybe I did the layout wrong, but that's the gist. Two direct indications of engine damage, plus missing stuff, a pile of vent metal, another skewed and bent lid, drawing a line through the vent structure on the official trajectory. If a very low plane didn't do this, then how? Was it too staged in advance?
Pentagon reality check - January 11, 2008 11:00 PM (GMT)
So is everybody stumped by this evidence, finding it too boring/too easy to fake, or simply confused as to what I'm showing here?
Anyway. last night I did a close-up examination of the propped doors.
It's clear they are propped open by a regtangualr object off-cenetered beyween them (green-gray).
Note diff. lip styles on each door, app. designed for inter-locking. Black moulding hanging off the left door at a smal bit of missing far corner (?). hinge arm thing and possible power cables hanging under the right door. Hinge arm, Half-tube shape and more cables hanging under the left. Top shot note in background a tipped Bobcat dozeer/forklift, a possible clue to what was going on there at impact time. Bottom shot note pile of dark stuff on rightt door, the 'grime line' previously discussed.
The right door is the one we've seen warped on engine-scale. One more time:
Anyway. last night I did a close-up examination of the propped doors.
It's clear they are propped open by a regtangualr object off-cenetered beyween them (green-gray).
Note diff. lip styles on each door, app. designed for inter-locking. Black moulding hanging off the left door at a smal bit of missing far corner (?). hinge arm thing and possible power cables hanging under the right door. Hinge arm, Half-tube shape and more cables hanging under the left. Top shot note in background a tipped Bobcat dozeer/forklift, a possible clue to what was going on there at impact time. Bottom shot note pile of dark stuff on rightt door, the 'grime line' previously discussed.
The right door is the one we've seen warped on engine-scale. One more time: