I don't know how many of the truthers read topics down here, but I want to explain why it's a really bad idea to bring up V for Vendetta when talking about 9/11.

First and foremost, it's fiction. It characterizes a world where the government has somehow managed to take complete control of the citizens without the citizens doing a blooming thing about it. Nobody ever asks how such a transition could take place; they just see the end result and say "see? this is what our government is doing to us!"

The fact of the matter is that the people are so empowered that the government could never possibly form such a tight grasp on the citizens. We live in a society where people freak out if a policeman shoots an ethnic minority on purpose, and we're supposed to believe that we'll eventually let ourselves be policed with no regard for morality, decency, or lawfulness?

Second of all, THIS MOVIE IS FICTION. Oops, that was the same as the first point. But it bears repeating.

The fact of the matter is that if you start citing hollywood movies rather than hard evidence, people who know nothing about the 9/11 conspiracy will think you're nuts. That's really the biggest reason right there.

Why you are wrong....

"First and foremost, it's fiction."

Did you actually watch the movie? Do you remember the parts about truth and fiction? Politicians use truth to tell lies...and....artists use lies to.......

"It characterizes a world where the government has somehow managed to take complete control of the citizens without the citizens doing a blooming thing about it. Nobody ever asks how such a transition could take place; they just see the end result and say "see? this is what our government is doing to us!"

Are you familiar with the Reichstag Fire Decree? You see, there was this factual country called Germany. And Germany was ruled by a nutcase. He wanted to take control of the country without the people doing a blooming thing about it. So what he did was, he destroyed a building. The building was called the Reichstag. Hitler had his cronies burn it down, and they blamed the "communists." As a result of the violence, the frightened parliament put into place the Reichstag Fire Decree which limited Habeas Corpus (that's personal freedom) and said that the government had the right to look at the mail, invade the houses of, and arrest without recourse to legal rights, (and if it were modern day, look into the computers and email of) anyone suspected of being a communist. It allowed Hitler to silence his enemies. The next act he passed was the Enabling Act--giving der Fuhrer dictatorial powers.

Can you see how blowing up a building...say a government building...or the tallest, most impressive sky-scraper in one of the wealthiest cities in the world that deals in TRADE could be used as a symbol--by evil dictators...or Faustian Comic Book characters or...say...Paul Wolfowitz...to bring about a change? Do you remember form the movie the act of government terrorism that allowed their Hitler-like dicatator to take control? It had to do with Weapons of Mass Destruction. But yeah, total fiction--no basis in reality whatsoever.

"The fact of the matter is that the people are so empowered that the government could never possibly form such a tight grasp on the citizens. We live in a society where people freak out if a policeman shoots an ethnic minority on purpose, and we're supposed to believe that we'll eventually let ourselves be policed with no regard for morality, decency, or lawfulness?"

You mean like in...Nazi Germany? Where a great and powerful nation was tricked into thinking it was a victim and therefore justified in attacking anyone it felt like? People used to be empowered in the States. The Patriot Act took away a lot of that power...just like...THE REICHSTAG FIRE DECREE. And now that the American people have let their voice be heard that we don't want this ridiculous war...what has happened? How empowered are the American people really? The U.S. is no longer run by and for the people...but by and for financial interests and foreign lobbies.

On the basis of Article 48 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the German Reich, the following is ordered in defense against Communist state-endangering acts of violence:

§ 1. Articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the Constitution of the German Empire are suspended until further notice. It is therefore permissible to restrict the rights of personal freedom [ habeas corpus ], freedom of opinion, including the freedom of the press, the freedom to organize and assemble, the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications, and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.


Answer these questions...if you were arrested, today, as a terrorist, what could you do about it? What could your family do about it? How long could the DHS hold you? What legal recourse would you have?

Could never happen? A whole lot of German people thought exactly the same thing.

"Second of all, THIS MOVIE IS FICTION. Oops, that was the same as the first point. But it bears repeating."

No, it really doesn't. Fictional movies often have valid messages and apt metaphors. V for Vendetta hits the nail right on the head. It's message is as valid today as it was in WWII. We have NOTHING to FEAR but FEAR ITSELF, and this country is currently loaded with it.

"The fact of the matter is that if you start citing hollywood movies rather than hard evidence, people who know nothing about the 9/11 conspiracy will think you're nuts. That's really the biggest reason right there."

Yeah, and if you start talking about 1984 (that's a novel read in most high schools by the way) regarding Big Brother and intrusions on privacy and acts of thought control, there will always be some idiot who says IT'S FICTION. IT DOESN'T MATTER!!

first of all, here's a little history for those who have only seen the movie or who don't know some of the background info about the comic:

i read the comic shortly after seeing the movie. this comic was written in the 80's, and it was about margaret thatcher and her conservative views that were really taking a hold in britain. i'm not an expert on that particular history, so i can't say much about it, but i know that for a fact. it also gave a lot more info than the movie did, allowing readers to see what was happening to the citizens and what the government did, as well as more intricate subplot lines and so forth. hollywood execs and scriptwriters being who they are couldn't put everything in the movie. much of the original message in the comic was lost, which explains why lloyd (i'm not sure if david lloyd or alan moore was offended) didn't want to be connected with the film. i really suggest people who want to know more to buy the comic, because it gives you a much more detailed analysis of the people involved and what was really going on in the world, without so much neo-hollywood crap and filtered propaganda.

i can remember seeing stuff on the news about the movie when it came out because it portrayed its hero as a terrorist who blew up a building. one mans' terrorist is certainly the next mans' freedom fighter, and it's a fine line between the two. v certainly was a freedom fighter. he was not a man attacking a far away country, scaring millions of people. he was a man scaring a few pigs attacking his own country to wake up millions of people to the truth. this isn't really related to what i'm saying, i'm just adding it while we're on the subject of v for vendetta.

anyway.

the movie certainly has compelling metaphors and shows admirable philosophies. it had a great message, was a controversial production, and so forth. i think that everyone should see it and films/novels of their ilk, including 1984, fahrenheit 451, brave new world, animal farm, the list goes on. anything by george orwell, aldous huxley, and ray bradbury is excellent. these stories remind us to look to the past AND the future; to be careful what we set in motion; to tell us that we have responsibilities as citizens to protect our freedom.

BUT.

if you want to convince people that you are right, bringing up films and books will not do so. it is not concrete evidence because they are works of fiction when it comes down to it, and generally people will not take that as seriously as the evidence provided, for example, in loose change. there were no quotes from 1984 or v for vendetta in there. it would have been impressive rhetoric, but if it had been in there, i would have been turned off immediately. keats, you say that there are great parallels between history and fiction, and there are. and hitler certainly passed many despicable practices, along with stalin and mussolini. but why not look to history, the complete facts, instead of compelling story parallels first? people take concrete facts more seriously, no matter how you personally are affected by different information. the information presented in loose change isn't accepted by everyone at first, so sticking to facts to convince people of the truth is a better tactic than showing them symbolic passages from v for vendetta or 1984. fiction just doesn't make for a convincing argument, especially when you are trying to spread the truth.

most people don't take too kindly to telling lies to tell the truth. evey certainly didn't like it, even if it did help her.