In order to proceed with an informed and honest discussion of the issue of Israeli involvement in the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks, it is essential that we gain some understanding of what is meant by Zionism. To justify this proposition it will suffice to simply broach the subject, and expose the course outlines.

Until recently, any discussion of Zionism was met with a defensive, derisive connotation of "Zionist conspiracy theory". For various reasons this sociological barrier is fracturing. It's ironic that the taboo ever existed given that the Israeli government makes no secret about its Zionist roots. To establish the Truth of what I say one need merely execute this search: http://www.google.com/search?q=Zionist+site:gov.il

Zionism, like all political movements, has consisted of a diverse group of individuals who hold divergent values and ideals. Some have been poets and dreamers. Others have been hard-nosed pragmatists. It's difficult to assess the movement and its impact on world affairs due to the fact that it has traditionally acted in relative obscurity resulting from the dearth of mainstream media coverage it has been given.

I've been attempting to construct a social network of relevant connections so that I can better understand the workings of the World Zionist Organization(WZO). Here's what I have so far:
http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPer...st-Organization

The Constitution of the World Zionist Organization is deftly crafted to enable the WZO's functioning as a globally dispersed nationalist government without violating the laws of its many host nations.



The founding document of modern political Zionism is generally held to be Der Judenstaat, Versuch eine Moderne Lösung der Judenfrage (The Jewish State, a Search for a Solution to the Jewish Question) by Rabbi Theodor Herzl, 1896. It is a document of extremely different character from the charters of state which lie at the foundation of the United States of America. This stands to reason given that it was born of a different context and intended to achieve different objectives.

For a very short introduction to the history of modern political Zionism see http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/wzo.html and the links from that page.

The situation we have today is that there exists a geographical nation state called Israel, born of the Zionist Movement, and there is also a global political entity called the World Zionist Organization which is integrally connected with Israel, but is not synonymous with the geographical state of Israel. Regarding 9/11, it may be more accurate to suspect that the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks are affiliated more closely with World Zionism than with Israel, per se.

It seems highly unlikely that all accomplices before the fact are Jewish or even overly sympathetic to the Zionist cause. Indeed, one Richard Bruce Cheney comes readily to mind, as does Lewis Paul Bremer III, neither of whom are Jewish. They certainly have strong connections to leading Zionists, but these connections are likely pragmatic rather than sympathetic.

Since this is such a sensitive subject, personally I believe the Israeli/Mossad Involvement section should be used to post specific connections to the events
of 9/11. The Silverstein/Netanyahu connection thread is a perfect example
as to why a Israeli/Mossad Involvement section is needed on this forum.

Posts like this that get way out in front of the facts concerning 9/11 may result in the section being removed. I am not challenging the claims in the article. I am suggesting
articles like this can be a distraction from the intended purpose of the forum.

Just my two cents.

The problem is that if people don't have some sense of context, facts don't tend to find a place. People can make generalizations about "Zionist Neocons" or whatever, but if no one has a clear idea of what Zionism is, it is not much better than a nebulous epithet. Take a bit of time looking into this character:

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPer...ephen-E-Herbits

http://www.google.com/search?q=Permindex+Halliburton
http://www.google.com/search?q=Permindex+Bronfman
http://www.google.com/search?q=Bronfman+Herbits
http://www.google.com/search?q=Herbits+Lauder
http://www.google.com/search?q=Lauder+Arad
http://www.google.com/search?q=Arad+Netanyahu
http://www.google.com/search?q=Netanyahu+Silverstein
http://www.google.com/search?q=Larry-Silverstein+Sharon

For the one millionth time, Zionism was the international movemant to create a Jewish state in Palestine. Now that this has been completed, Zionism has become the international movemant to support Israel and bring Jews to Israel.

Anyone who believes that Zionism is an international movemant to rule the world is a bigot...and a bit insane.

One definition of Zionism is the militant Jewish movement to appropriate land belonging to Palestinians with the objective being the augmentation of Israeli territory. Keep in mind that not all Jews are Zionists, and some Jews are actually opposed to Zionism.

i support a palestinian state, with east jerusalem as its capital, but there are some misconceptions about zionism.

#1. the term "palestinian" was not commonly used to refer to any arab groups until after Israel's founding. The Palestinian Post, the Palestinian symphony, all Palestinian institutions prior to 1948 were actually mostly Jewish. The Arabs resented the term "Palestinian" as a colonialist invention.

#2. Anyone can be a Zionist. Jew, Christian, Muslim. Technically, anyone who recognizes the existance of Israel and does not seek its physical annihilation is a Zionist. In America, there are many more Zionist Christians then Jews.

#3. Many bigots use "Zionist" as a code-word for Jew. For example, one schmuck on this site got mad at me for saying something about a Catholic priest being a pedophile. His response was "this just shows your hatred of anyone who isnt a Zionist". My response was "how could you possibly know if he was a Zionist or not?". Catholic priests can't be Zionists? Since when? That logic only works if you believe only Jews are Zionists.

Definitely.. and probably many more than we realize...


Did people know that after WWII the Northern Kimberley Region of my country Australia was considered for a Jewish state?

I wonder why they chose the middle east instead... I'm pretty sure it's not all got to do with religious significance. lol I think you know what I'm getting at.

Ofcourse. Why would they even consider putting a Jewish state in the one place where there was a Jewish state 2,000 years ago? Why would they put a Jewish state in the place where Jewish culture and religion developed and thrived? Why would they put a Jewish state in the place where it was actually called "The Land of the Jews" i.e. Judaea?

Clearly there must have been another reason.

=)

Your analogy of Judea=Jew is laughable beyond compare!!!
It was only called Palestine cuz everybody was buddies, I presume.

Exactly what evoked that comment?

Kissing- The land was known as the Roman Province of Judaea. Judaea meaning "land of the Jews". It is the Latin version of Judah, from where the word Jew comes from. Get a grip.

A retraction is in order here. My misundertanding (read ignorance) of the chronology, (what'a a thousand years give or take?) the 12 tribes, the etymology, and the history of the region is, well, biblical in proportion. The influence of a pint of Jim Beam certainly didn't help matters either. No more drinking and typing..offestly honicer!

Going to the the hardwire store to get a BIG bucket of grip...industrial strength! Hope it'll serve the dual purpose of getting this egg off my face.

I truly respect a man (or woman) who can admit to when he is wrong. =)

Now as to whether the Jewish kingdom of 2,000 years ago has any relevance to the Jews of 1948 is another story. But as to the pure historical nature of Zionism, the Jewish state was atleast located in the one place where it had any historical context.

All this fighting over a land the size of New Jersey. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

A zionist wants the all of the Palestinian territory to be a jew state.

Zionsim is like Nazism

X- you clearly dont know a darn thing about zionism. there are left wing zionists who want a palestinian state in all of the west bank, gaza, and east jerusalem. there are right wing zionists who want to take over jordan. there is only one thing ALL zionists have in common, the support of the existance of the state of israel within the 1967 borders.

as to the israelis being like nazis, please tell that to the 1.2 million arabs who live in israel. there numbers have grown from 200,000 in 1948. if the israelis are trying to behave like nazis, they are doing a horrible job.

Oh really???You dont even know where do i came from
What a about the Jenin Massacre???
War on Lebanon... The checkpoint abuse.

Tell that to this father

Dont believe in everything the Media tell you, specially the US media which is controlled by American jewshis

which media should i believe instead? hezbollah? iranian media? hamas tv?