I have followed the movement for quite some time.. not much of a poster until lately..

I have always been a person of science.. Not too interested in History, or government. (Until my researches on 9/11)

I remember watching Loose Change Second cut for the first time and found myself in total shock. I raced to my brothers house insisting he watch the film.

Both of us saw the facts, and knew that something did not add up. I listened carefully about theries of the each situation.

Convinced that something was not right, I got more and more people invovled to get their thoughts and feelings on the situation. Some people approched were "so-called" automatic experts that never looked in to the data more than seeing it on TV the day that it went down (lame) and was telling me in a fool for even concidering that any of this was true. But others were willing to watch the films and do their own research and share thoughts and ideas.

Understanding the data that has been provided about the Pentagon and Shanksville (Planes or lack there of, and size of holes etc...)

One thought keeps coming to mind.. Why would they risk the Pentagon and Shanksville when the towers would be reason enough to get the average american supporting the "war on terror"?

Lets imagine that the two never happened.. would anything be different? Doing those two would put them at three times the risk for witnesses and media coverage to catch them up into something.. ya know? and even more so that these two events took place AFTER the towers.. seems like too much.

I DO believe that the goverment is capable and has pulled off some ill shi*t, but they are not morons either. To pull off something of this magnitude lit would defantly be something that was carefully planned and doing the other two just dont seem logical.. why risk it?

The only thing that comes to mind is that they could have provoked all of this and sat back as observers and watched the show.

Like when Dick Chaney was warned that the plane was 50 miles, 30 miles, 10 miles out and told the young man that the order still stands.

Has anyone heard what "officially" order was? Could this statement just be politics??

Im not here to debunk or be an ass.. just looking for answers from people that might know more than me.

Thank you in advance for your time and concideration, Please think before answering.

[1] I believe 175 was intended for WTC7 or perhaps the Whitehouse
[2] Shootdown the plane is default and since the plane wasn't shot down one must assume that the order was anything but follow existing protocol, thus do not shoot down

my 2¢

It is highly unlikely that Flight 93 was intended for WTC7. For Flight 93 to have hit WTC7,. it would have had to fly below the rooftops of other taller surrounding buildings,. and then your question would be,. why not hit the Empire State Building? When the Empire State Building is many times larger and a much more famous landmark.

The logic of the terrorist choosing WTC7 over the Empire State Building is entirely suspicious.

The fact that WTC7 was demolished in full view of everyone is their biggest mistake. I will go so far as to say it is the biggest mistake every conducted in a False Flag operation.

Flight 93, in my opinion, was always intended to be the 'hero story' of that day, and never intended to reach any ground target.

The Pentagon, I believe, was to give the idea that this wasn't just a criminal act, but a military act of war.

Similar to the 7/7 bombings, the new style of False Flag operations seem to follow the style of multiple epic attacks happening simultaneously. The reasons for Shanksville and the Pentagon was to give the impression that we are dealing with an organized and capable enemy and that noone is safe anywhere. I mean,. if they hit the Pentagon,. they can hit you. And people believe it. The towns with the smallest populations believe that they are just as vulnerable to terrorism as a city the size of New York.

Also, possible reasons for WTC7,. and the Pentagon being hit are a result of a "multiple birds with one stone" policy.

The WTC7 was demolished to end investigations into multiple cases of corporate fraud. Incidentally many were big donors to Bush's campaign. The Pentagon was hit to end investigations into the missing 2.3 Trillion dollars.

Perhaps this is interesting to you:

http://www.v911t.org/SergeantLauroChavez.php


So, I was standing in the SCIF (Secure Compartmented Information
Facility), which is basically this underground bunker command post for
USCENTCOM, when the first plane hit. We were watching the fly patterns
of all the planes on the aerospace grid. This contained not only all
commercial flights at the time, but all military flights, and fake
enemy planes that were supposedly put on there for the exercise. Many
of the planes sent to intercept the fake blips were scrambled from
Andrews which is an air defense AFB for the East Coast. They were sent
across the US and left very few planes to defend the capital. After
the first plane hit the tower we were all in disbelief. After the
initial shock was over, our questions were what are the odds this
could happen for real, during a training exercise thats covering the
same scenario? We were all at wits end. Then to top all of this off,
Cheney gave NORAD the order to stand down scrambling jets to
intercept. A few moments later tower 2 was hit. Only after the
Pentagon was hit, did he give the orders to scramble the jets to
intercept the plane bound for the White House.


The story of Lauro Chavez, you have to scroll down a bit. As far as I know he never told his story on camera, buth he was in a programme of Alex Jones in 2006. I have no idea whether it has been debunked or not!

I completly agree with "rydog"

Flight 93 was designed to be the "hero story" in the official 9/11 story. Where the people fight back etc and indicating what the US nation should do (War on terror etc)

And Pentagon play a very big part in the official story. It was a a military target. Act of war. Attack on the headquarters of the United States Department of Defense.

It was very importand.

But btw, I did not knew until recently that NATO decided that 9/11 was an armed attack against all NATO members

For what I believe ;

1) Pentagon : This is the "Icon" of US Army , the great eagle... This symbolic attack me be important to convince " the military people" instead of the public. A way to "ignite" the patriotic devotion needed for the 2 wars to comes..

Plus :

Remember the 2.8 TRILLION US $ "unacomptable" ? The very day BEFORE 9/11 , Rummy tells everyone about it and promise to do whatever is need to find answers and do the clean-up. But , the next morning the world change... as for the Rummy's promises. No one talks about it after , because of 9/11

More than that ; the "documents" needed to do the research about the money was in the section that had been destroyed. With almost all the personnel assigned to the task. Unbelievable isn't ??

2) Shanksville : Seems something went wrong... I do believe "they" shoot it down before the crash ( that explains the 2e debris field at more than 6 miles away !! )

Why ? Probably that something happens inside that plane , not planned. Maybe ( just a hypothesis ) people inside the plane discovered part of the REAL thing. Trying to take over. The original plan been changed "they" had to shoot it down to destroy all evidence.

Why do I believe that ? : The official time of crash set by the Administration and Comission is set to 10:03 AM. However , the FAA , Norad and controllers ( whom had the flight193 on radar until 10:06 ) initially reports the crash at 10:06.

You know what ; an important sismic wave was record in this aera at 10:06. This is probably the impact of whatever cause the crater. But guess what !? The official story STILL deny the sismic evidence. Saying that the flight 193 crash had not create any sismic wave... ( just to recall : the black boxes located in the tail ( of a 155' feet long plane ! ) was discovered at more than 25' deep. )

Unbelievable isn't ?!

Want more : The victim's famillies after a very long judicial arrasment over the Bush administration finally got to ear the "CVR" tapes. BUT they had to signed a paper forcing them to never talk about it and drop any possible attempt to take judicial mesure against the Bush administration. Anyway , at the earing the tape "inexplicably" stop 3 minutes BEFORE the end of the tape. Yep , the 3 last minutes of it was missing... Quite a coincidence ! ( 10:06 - 10:03 = 3 minutes )

I let you imagine what was on those 3 last minutes... I think it was incrimaniting stuff , perhaps someone find the truth and maybe also "sees" the fighter shooting them down. One think for sure ; tne gov. doesnt want anybody to know what happened.

My God. :o



Are you sure you don't mean Flight 93 ?

Even though I am drunk, that sentence rings through to me like a clear bell from the darkness and for the first time WTC7 makes some kind of sense.

Up to now I have always assumed that the crashed flight was heading in some kind of direction aiming for a random government building, But if the timeline works and Flight united 93 (NOT 175) was in the vicinity of new york, and could have also reached building 7 a little later than the first two Jets that hit WTC1 and WTC2.

then clearly we have 4 major buildings damaged,
4 jet planes aiming to crash,
and the only thing that is missing is one single plane did not reach the target.

Put two and two together and Building 7 would have crashed down when the fouth plane hit.

Thank you all for the idea and answers.. i will continue to look into this myself. Just needed some other angles to look at it.

One day I hope it is all out into the open for all to know an absolute truth. Sadly I feel that america is all about the richest 1% and all things going on in the US today is working for them.. not the common american.

With talk like this some of my co-workers said that i was being so un-american. One said if i dont like the country i should just leave (I had to laugh at this redneck responce.) But they all went to silence when I snapped back at them and told them..

Im more patriotic than they are.. all of them just live and sponge of the benifits of the country and dont give a damn about anything outside of there simple little lives. I give a damn about the MY country and yeah I do give a damn about the truth of 9/11. This awesome country was founded on the power to be to its people and not some power and money hungry organization like the bush adminastration. I feel a crime has been committed and i hope those involved are brought to justice. and the only way for america to go back and stay the america that it is suposed to be is have its people give a damn about it. period.

I pray for a great president to arise this coming election that will put us back on track to greatness for all.. not just a 1%.

Why did the government not invent chemical weapon evidence to legitimize the Iraq invasion? If they can do 9/11, why not leave a smoking gun in Iraq?

Good point, that. Also, people needed to die, meaning no defense and almost as telling, no warning, no evacuation. Whatever happened, even just forekowledge and allowance, such psyop elements would have to be considered.

As for 93 and WTC7, I'd think that was fairly short building to try and hit like the big towers were. That doesn't sound right to me. My opinion - if there was ay real al Qaeda hijacking that day, it was 93. It yielded the most phone calls and may've been shot down because it was NOT headed for any buildings. If they landed and did the ransom thing, that would blow the cover for the three RC strikes preceding. Taken down by heroes - or shot down and kept quiet, if that ever gets accepted - it lends the right flavor to the horror of the day.

just a hypothesis. A spooky thought.

Re: 'does the order still stand?"
It could be they were referrig to the shoot down order - as people prepared to use it, they might want to verify. If Cheney had a stand-down ordered, he might not want to talk about in front of blabbermouth Mineta. But too late now. Has anyone asked Mineta to clear this up? What was he talking about?

I have always felt that this was a terrorist attack that was allowed to happen. I don't think the govt. planned or carried out the attacks. They needed a war cry and the ability to control the people using fear. If you really look at the govt's actions that morning it is clear that they were intentionally incompetent. The FAA, military, secret service, president, vice president, NORAD,etc.

You mean chemical weapons not leading back to them?

Maybe that isn't as easy as you like to suggest.

Remember anthrax?

First Iraq was blamed, then it was revealed that the anthrax was made in US military facalities, then silence.

The FBI made the decission to not further inform the Congress about it.

Maybe they just wanted to avoid a repetition of such a desater.

The official story (confirmed by a few people, not just one) is that this sequence of confirmations happened right after Flight 93 crashed, but before the folks in Washington found out that it had crashed. The Secret Service in Washington was projecting where the plane should be.

And of course, the order was the shoot-down order that had just been communicated minutes before, and the military was repeatedly confirming that they were really supposed to shoot down a civilian airliner with US citizens in it.

That's not Mineta's testimony. The story changes, yet again.

Edit: Mineta's testimony.

Well Cheney outed Valerie Plame because her network caught their operatives trying to plant it. I could be wrong as all my intelligence briefings were just that... Brief.

Also, through Curveball and the Factory that made Powdered baby milk was said to be a Biological weapons lab. It turned out the very Photo that Curveball said was a false wall was really a wall and was not a traffic route that was disguised to thwart satellite images. Used as a pretext for war and pretty much Milked the intelligence community, and well no use crying over spilt milk.

Did Iraq have WMD? Yep cuz US has the receipts. They sold weapons to Iraq in order to fight Iran.

Inventing evidence leads to the ultimate question no one ever intended to ask was... Got Milk? They knew they never needed it as the "Our Bad" just seems like incompetence. After they already invaded then obviously someone could just speak up and say hey you didn't find WMD so now leave. :lol: