The crew of Gopher 06 took off from Andrews Air Force
Base, travelling NORTH AND WEST, which took him by
the Washington Mall.

He was on the Southside of the Mall and had just
passed it going WESTBOUND when he first saw the
plane up and to the left(or in front of him) , about 4
miles out, at 10' Oclock/11 O'Clock/12 O'clock in a
30-45 degree bank descending to his altitude. He said
it was like "coming up to an intersection" . While
O'brien is traveling WESTBOUND, the plane's traveling
EASTBOUND toward him, turning NORTHBOUND and back to
an EASTBOUND heading while in the 30-45 degree bank.
The plane essentially crosses in front of him, flies
around/below them heading towards the
Potomac/mall/whitehouse or Potomac/Pentagon, then down
river near Reagan National before finally turning out
of it's bank and to it's final heading toward the
Pentagon.

As for when the C-130 turns to follow it, it is after
the plane passes them. They have 3 radio calls before
turning around to follow it. The C-130 turns from
WESTBOUND to EASTBOUND to follow it according to
O'brien, essentially doing a U-Turn. By the time he
turns around, he see's it Southeast of the white house
AND he has a hard time keeping the plane in sight
(presumably it was coming out of the spiraled bank
turn MILES AWAY near Reagan???). O'brien see's an
explosion on the ground and "did not know what or
where it had impacted" implying he is at a high
altitude and far away.

Then, according to Scott Cook, a witness I believe to
be genuine, on the other side of the river, he see's
the C-130 about 60 seconds after the explosion
approaching the Pentagon and then apparently see's it
start "a steep decent towards the Pentagon. [...]
descending at a much steeper angle than most
aircraft... the plane reached the Pentagon at a low
altitude and made a sharp left turn, passing just
north of the plume, and headed straight for the White
House. [...] But then right over the tidal
basin, at an altitude of less than 1000 feet, it
made another sharp left turn to the north and climbed
rapidly. "

Here is an image I have created using his published
account and his e-mail correspondence answers to
establish what we believe he is telling us.:




How we arrived at this? From his earlier accounts:

In another interview,

Although the BBC documentary, 9/11 Conspiracy Files,
is completely misleading and confusing regarding his
interaction with the plane...



...his account still seems to correspond with what he
has ultimately been saying-

he says he took off from Andrews AFB
headed north and west to an altitude of 3000 ft to the
"south side of the Mall".


Then it cuts to:

Clearly he has the plane entering from the left side
of his windscreen ( If O'brien is moving WESTBOUND
just past the mall then the plane coming from his left
would be going NORTHBOUND like he said). Also, the
event is clearly taking place around or near, or just
past the mall.

If that wasn't clear enough. He CONFIRMED IT for us
all in an e-mail exchange:

As the plane passes them headed EAST while the C-130
is headed WEST, it continues to bank past them and
descend below them, on their right side...

As the plane passes them in it's spiral/descent turn,
it is headed from north to east, to southeast, to
southwest...the C-130 continues on WEST without
turning around until 3 radio calls later.

Lt. Col. O'Brien explains:

Then before or after he turns around, he presumably
see's the plane now southeast of the white house, as
this is how he or it is reported:

Oddly this is almost EXACTLY what the National
Geographic radar tracking shows:



Fits with what I originally thought he was saying...






He tells us he turned back to the east to follow it.
In reality it was an ATTEMPT to follow it. He never
came close enough, other than the initial pass across
his windscreen, coming from left to right at 10, 11,
and 12 O'Clock, in a 45 degree bank. So he turned from
WEST to EAST, basically doing a U-Turn. He says he has
a hard time keeping it in sight, this would make sense
since it was 3 radio calls later that he FINALLY
turned around. He also states that he "DID NOT
KNOW WHAT OR WHERE IT HAD IMPACTED"....

Clearly it was headed east, turned to the northernly
heading as it made it's bank/turn east again-turning
then to the southern heading. It was north of the
Pentagon (clearly since the C-130 was next to the mall
and had just past it when he first noticed the plane),
over/near the Mall/DC/The Monument/The White House.
All of this is near Rosslyn and the USA Today
building, which Norman Mineta stated FAA Deputy
Director Monte Belger told him the radar track showed
it near- Rosslyn/USA Today and coming DRA (Down River
Approach) . THIS WOULD SUPPORT O'BRIEN'S DESCRIPTION
OF WHAT HAPPENED.

It is clear from a number reports that the plane flew
over DC or the Capitol, so we really can't accept that
it "had not crossed over towards the White House or
towards the Capitol", as Mineta tries to assert.

Then on 9/21/01, they tried changing what really
happened...

The Cover-up:

Now that we have figured out exactly where the planes
were at, they decided to bolster up their phony flight
path:

First in Oct. 2001, with the Danielle O'Brien 20/20
interview, they illustrated the phony path:



...and the 911 Commission Hearings animated version,
that of course shows the official flight path and the
plane on the SOUTH SIDE:



Which of course led to the 2006 release of the NTSB
Flight Path Study of "Flight 77":



The problem was, old versions of the original flight
path were still floating around, here are two National
Geographic versions:



And this one:



My confusion was always in the flight path of the
C-130 bringing it by the Mall and the plane being able
to come in from his left hand side of his windscreen,
yet this did not jive with the official NTSB flight
path:

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...topic=5665&st=0

Apparently, since we caught on to their crap they
sprung into action and actually CHANGED the C-130's
story and location, taking him away from THE MALL and
placing him flying southwest to meet this phony flight
path, in order to try and make their BS story work.



They apparently also try and support, many of the
suspect witnesses' account of the this C-130 veering
away before even reaching the Pentagon.

THIS DID NOT HAPPEN.

Scott Cook described it perfectly.

This jives with the C-130 pilot's accounts and
actions. He traveled WEST, then flipped a U and
traveled EAST.

Like I mentioned earlier, Kieth Wheelhouse, Joel
Sucherman, and a few others have this "second plane",
the C-130. veering off in a bank out of there, in a
U-Turn to the West. The problem is he obviously didn't
do this, is this what the flyover plane would have
done?

From AVweb:

Perhaps this was the early stage for the covering up
the flyover.

Thanks to Rob Balsamo for his original initiative
with O'Brien and confirming these details.

Hi Terror:

I read your OP twice for signs of usable evidence and none exists, because your data is not connected to any specific ‘times.’ We are looking for evidence that you can place between 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM on 9/11 in Pentagon airspace and nothing like that appears in your post. The key times are around 9:32 AM, 9:36 AM and 9:38 AM specifically and especially the first two mentioned times.

WHEN???? Are we talking 9:30 AM, or high noon? Please try again when you have some verifiable ‘times’ to include in your story.

GL,

Terral

Interesting. Timeline aside, the flight path info here is useful. When I have time I'll check Craig's ATS stuff and respond to it. If this is a copy-paste I'll paste my responses. If original I'll respond personal. You guys might have something here, who knows.

I'm sorry this "chat monkey" is dumbfounded by your claim that the C130 Pilot's Testimony about where he was and what he saw on the morning of 9/11 doesn't narrow down to a "timeframe".

:blink:

"60 seconds" after the explosion would be either 9:33 or 9:38. Take your pick for initial event time. So yes we are talking more about 9:30AM than "high noon".

Trust me, we definitely do. ;)

Not if you use Terral "dead reckoning". It would be much closer to Terral's "chat monkey posse" gathering at "high noon" at the "Lloyd is OK corral". :D

Yes, you guys definitely have "something" there, but I seriously doubt if the Frustrated Fraud would ever admit to it. :rolleyes:

So does it appear that the "aircraft" approaching the Pentagon flew the red path, only the disinformation specialists working the "CON" rotated the red path downward away from
the true North of the Citgo flight path and the "aircraft" pulled up over the Pentagon, made a sharp U-turn to the west, and flew off to Dulles or some other destination? :D

Hi Terror:

Dumbfounded? I should not be surprised . . . Here is the OP testimony again:

O’Brien’s testimony here is contradictory, because first he sees an explosion, but ‘did not know what or where it had impacted.’ The Pentagon is perhaps the easiest of all buildings to recognize from the sky by the pentagon shape and proximity to Reagan National Airport, but O’Brien sees an explosion (yea right) on the ground, but cannot tell us WHERE. :0) To then base testimony on '60 seconds after the explosion' is NONSENSE, if you have no timeframe reference for the original observation. The story should have started off with the ‘takeoff time’ to give this entire Charade an ounce of authenticity and relevance to known Pentagon events.

Now you know where the “Chat-Monkey” tag was earned by these CIT guys, because dragging a paragraph of meaningful Pentagon commentary from these guys is just about impossible. No sir. We do not just 'Take your pick' for Pentagon Explosion Times, because they run from 9:31:39 AM to 10:15:16 AM ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=16510 ) through a 44 minute period. If O’Brien is too far away to recognize the Pentagon, then he is obviously too far away to be providing any valuable testimony for this case. The pilot could have seen the 9:43 AM Explosion . . .

Note The Smoke >> http://www.loosechange911.com/img/explosion.jpg

. . . or any explosion coming before or after. One of the most serious omissions in your Opening Post Report is the missing element of ‘smoke’ plainly visible in ‘all’ these explosions, but your report never even uses the term one time. Even from the ground Terry Cohen’s first observations are centered around the “Just Smoke” ( http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=5751351276150910098 ) with Foreign Minster Per Stig Moller’s hearing the explosion to see “the smoke first rise from the Pentagon” at 9:32 AM ( http://blog.lege.net/content/Seven_Hours_in_September.pdf *). Lloyd’s comments to Barbara Honegger were centered around the ‘smoke.’

In every case all the early Pentagon evidence shows tons and tons of black smoke billowing into the air from the largest building in the area with the most visible pentagon outline, but O’Brien cannot say where his explosion even originated. :0) No sir. Go back and support the elements of your story with some kind of ‘time stamp’ evidence, or the whole thing is a waste of time to include in any real Pentagon Investigation effort IMHO.

GL,

Terral

Terral,


The research consistently put for by Aldo & Craig in regards to the Pentagon is light years ahead of yours and doesn't include mach12 missiles & A3 skywarriors. It has even been endorsed by Pentagon victim April Gallop and even actual firefighters who were there on the scene. Witnesses like Sargeant Brooks are even open to the possibility they were deceived on that day. Not one of the witnesses encountered to date seen at explosion at the Pentagon before a plane crashed there. This eliminates your 9:32 flyover / mach 12 missile and then a 9:37 impact. It did not happen.


It was Aldo & Craig's determination to track all these eyewitnesses down in the first place which has ultimately led to the unbelievable account of Lloyd, 3 North Side of the Citgo Eyewitnesses (on video), North of the Navy Annex (meaning North of Citgo) witnesses, McGraw admitting he did not see light poles get knocked down and thrown into Lloyd's cab he deduced it, multiple eyewitnesses that "AA77" was White.

And right now Aldo & Craig are there again. Their most recent trip is going to be one of the most incredible contributions ever made to Pentagon Research as you will see in the days & weeks ahead.

Your pathetic little attempts to belittle CIT with your immature high school toilet humor jpegs and your little trademark insults you believe to be so clever won't be worth much down the road as you either learn to accept the reality of what really happened as CIT has presented or you just end up being another flash in the pan Pentagon researcher who leaves a little speed bump on the road to Pentagon research.

Hi Terror:

Everyone has their opinion and yours is from a fellow CIT TV Chat-Monkey out there rowing in circles in the middle of Washington Blvd shouting “Lloyd Is A LIAR And Father Steven McGraw Too!” Aldo swears at his debating opponents relentlessly ( http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...opic=9269&st=15 ) with no regard to the ladies and gentlemen readers judging the debate. Your “The light poles at the Pentagon were staged in advance” ( http://www.letsrollforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19345 ) Theory is the most STUPID insult to our collective intelligence these eyes have ever seen. We have plenty of Plane/Light Pole ( http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/04/9...ttack-what.html ) witnesses seeing the PLANE and the LIGHT POLES flying around, which renders your entire theory complete and utter NONSENSE. The fact that Terror believes these CIT guys have anything ‘light years ahead’ of anything speaks only to the power of the Deluding Influence controlling all the CIT Chat-Monkeys on their train to DelusionVille.

The actual firefighters on the scene (Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper) were running north ( http://web.telia.com/~u43109230/flight77/texts/Wallace.txt ) away from the Big Plane at the time of missile impact, so they never saw any plane hit anything. They could not see the missile making impact ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Terral03/pentani.gif ) at 9:31:39 AM, because they were pounding the pavement running the other way. Lloyd tells you that the Big Plane could not fit into the little hole ( http://www.pentagonresearch.com/018.html ), but you accuse him of being a “LIAR” and demonize him at every opportune moment. April Gallop was inside the Pentagon and was in no position to see any 9:31:39 AM Decoy Plane or any light poles flying around, so stop being ridiculous. Any other firefighters not hiding under the vehicles arrived on the scene at or after 9:41 AM, or ten minutes ‘after’ Lloyd’s windshield was hit by Pole #1.

So what?? Many people have been deceived by the 9:31:39 AM Decoy Flyover Plane AND the Missile that struck the Wedge One E-Ring wall at Column Line 14, because that was the DoD intention and plan from the very beginning. The difference is that ‘some’ of us see through their schemes, while others remain deluded beyond our collective imaginations . . .

LOL! This is the kind of stupid nitwit unsupported commentary we are exposed to everyday here by CIT Chat-Monkeys without a case for anything. Lloyd England’s cab was struck by the Light Pole from the 9:31:39 AM Decoy Flyover Plane, but he told everyone the little hole was too small for the PLANE.

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/018.html

Here is one witness to an EXPLOSION that created the E-Ring hole, BEFORE any PLANE hit anything. While Lloyd could not tell you the Decoy flew over the E-Ring roof (he was driving the other way), he could tell you that the little hole was way too small for the BIG PLANE. Of course anyone looking on (like Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper) thought the BIG PLANE struck the Pentagon, because they connected the plane with the explosion created by the Missile Strike. Since the 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet did hit the Pentagon, then those witnesses ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0qpbwHCYI , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schV0rKCRwA ) saw a smaller plane crash into the Pentagon. Those not seeing the Decoy thought the Pentagon was attacked by a truck bomb or some kind of planted explosives, because they did not see the Missile Strike either.

Heh . . . Then what stopped the Quartermaster-calibrated Navy Clock at 9:31:39 AM??

Right-hand side >> http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/312.jpg

Oh, does that Heliport Clock say 9:38 AM? No. :0) The Double Tree Security Video says what Explosion Time again? Oh yea, 9:32 AM



The FAA Timeline gives what time for the aircraft crash? Was that 9:38 AM? No.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf

And yet, Mr. “Light Years Ahead” TerrorCell says, “This eliminates your 9:32 flyover / mach 12 missile and then a 9:37 impact. It did not happen.” No sir. All the Plane/Pole witnesses prove beyond all doubt the CIT Chat-Monkeys are delusional and haven’t the slightest clue . . . The First Explosion at the Pentagon took place at exactly 9:31:39 AM, whether you guys ever wake up or not. How much evidentiary support did TerrorCell use in drafting his NONSENSE? Oh yea. None. :0)

While Craig is a nice guy with plenty of enthusiasm, Aldo is a very poor choice for a partner IMHO; because I would not trust that guy to walk your dog. Lloyd England is a 9/11 Pentagon ‘Survivor’ that you guys continue to demonize over your own inability to investigate this Pentagon case properly. The eyewitness testimony given to professional News agencies and Journalists dated near 9/11 are the most credible with all CIT Chat-Monkey nonsense on the other side of the spectrum. I would not trust anything from the CIT Hit Squad Interrogators, because all of you guys are out there harassing Pentagon witnesses part of your own CIT Agenda. Anything part of the CIT PentaCon Con-Job is completely useless to any serious Pentagon Investigation, because all of that evidence (not) is tainted by your little monkey-see monkey-do hands.

I have talked to these guys and know the drill. They run through the neighborhoods hoping someone (anyone) will come out and support ‘their’ deluded theories and that part gets attention, while the witnesses saying something else are all ignored. Anyone that can transform Lloyd England and Father Steven McGraw into inside job terrorist bad guys has no credibility in my book. NONE. All I see is a bunch of deluded guys running around chasing rabbits down the wrong holes with one oar in the water going round and round and round day after day mumbling the same “Lloyd/Light Pole” Nonsense day in and day out . . .

Please do not get me started laughing again, because my side is going to split wide open . . .

The CIT TV Chat-Monkeys ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...ightPole_TV.jpg ) are some of the funniest guys around and have earned a place in the halls of humor that shall endure for generations to come. The fact that you really believe these CIT guys accomplish ANYTHING is a testament to the powers of the Grand Delusion you are perpetuating on your unsuspecting victims to your Charade. Maybe your dedicated CIT collegues will inspire me to create another funny cartoon. I see three monkeys rowing in tight circles in the middle of Washington Blvd around “Lloyd And Father Steven McGraw The Terrorist LIARS!” Now that will be a funny one . . .

BTW, when Merc Mercy ( http://www.letsrollforums.com/forums/profi...wprofile&u=2226 ) was recently banned from the LetsRoll Board ( http://www.letsrollforums.com/forums/viewt...er=asc&start=56 ) for swearing at everyone terribly, was that Aldo, Craig or one of the other CIT Chat Monkeys? :0) My money is on Aldo . . .

GL,

Terral

Still hijacking threads with the same old spam.

Hi Avenger with Dylan, Russell Pickering, Gideon, Sureshot, IVXX, Lin Kuei and Honway mentioned:

What did Avenger find “wrong” in my testimony to ‘quote >>’ and prove errant using evidence of his own? Nothing. The LC Pentagon Forum is currently dominated by the CIT TV Chat-Monkeys, as it has been for some time now.

There are MANY more, but you should be catching my drift. Where is Avenger’s outcry about the CIT TV Chat-Monkeys SPAMMING this LC Pentagon Forum with their “Lloyd-Bashing/Light Pole” Nonsense again and again and again? Oh, but my ‘reply’ to the same crap again and again is SPAM. :0) My recent reply was posted “Nov 3 2007, 01:59 PM,” so where is TerrorCell’s defending arguments to his OP theory? :0) And where can Avenger find a copy of my SPAM from where this post was ‘cut and pasted?’ If you are going to accuse me of pasting SPAM to this Board, then at least search the threads for where this post has a copy to find NONE EXIST. Terral giving ‘his’ rebuttal arguments against TerrorCell’s OP Proposal is NOT SPAM, but you are looking at another version of my “Multiple Attack Thesis” Arguments refuting TerrorCell's STUPIDITY. If these CIT Chat-Monkeys start 100 “Lloyd-Bashing / Light Pole” Threads, my reply to each one will be an argument from my ‘three attack’ 9:31:39 AM Decoy Flyover Plane/Missile Strike / 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet Attack / 9:42 AM – 10:15 AM Controlled Demolition Theory Rebuttal.

My Opening Posts contain ‘my thesis papers’ where Avenger is encouraged to write his rebuttal arguments that will mirror one another, IF Avenger ever develops a Pentagon Theory for ANYTHING. :0) If Avenger thinks a tuna fish sandwich struck the Pentagon, then all of your rebuttals to all of my Pentagon thesis papers will include your theory with supporting claims and conclusions supported by that evidence. Here is a prefect example: My Pentagon Timeline Thread ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=16510 ) now includes 44 points with the First Explosion at 9:31:39 AM and the final Demolition Explosion taking place at 10:15:16 AM with many times taken down to seconds from 'time stamp' News data. Preston runs over to my thread to offer his rebuttal, saying,

This is Preston’s first reply to my OP where he quotes “NOTHING” to begin his “Lloyd-bashing / Light Pole” NONSENSE rebuttal, because that is what CIT Chat-Monkeys do. Where is Avenger’s outcry that Preston pastes this same crap to all these threads? :0) I cannot bellyache at all, and the Mods should not say a word, because THIS IS PRESTON’S REBUTTAL based upon HIS “Lloyd/FBI Staged The Light Poles” THEORY. The fact that Preston has a thousand “Lloyd-bashing / Light Pole” Threads on this Board has NOTHING to do with him posting the CIT ‘theory’ as a rebuttal on ALL MY THREADS, because that is exactly what the CIT Chat-Monkeys are supposed to do, because that is all they know how to do. :0) TerrorCell and Preston do not all of the sudden start posting Avenger’s theories as rebuttals on my threads, just because their theories appear on every other thread in this Pentagon Room, so stop being an IDIOT.

All of my rebuttals contain MY THEORIES, just like those from everyone else contain THEIR THEORIES, because that is how we ‘debate’ these Pentagon Topics through the deliberation process. If Dylan, Russell Pickering, Gideon, Sureshot, IVXX and Lin Kuei had defendable Pentagon Theories, their posted rebuttals on all these threads would contain the same arguments supporting ‘their theory’ that would mirror the arguments in their ‘Pentagon Thesis Papers’ TO A TEE. It is easy to sit back and yell “SPAM,” when you are not down in the trenches debating these topics on practically every thread from arguments supporting YOUR OWN THEORY. The fact is that my debating opponents run out of arguments VERY QUICKLY, so they begin yelling SPAM to help stop the bleeding and their embarrassment. :0) Look how Preston decided to answer my “Pentagon Timeline” thesis paper:

We have all seen this CIT-TV Chat-Monkey drivel a hundred times. Right? Of course, because you have MANY CIT Chat-Monkeys chanting the same CIT mantras on ALL THESE THREADS. Even if the powers-that-be here have cut the head off the wicked CIT-TV snake (Aldo, Craig, Lyte Trip), TerrorCell and Preston continue posting their work and reviving their threads at record pace to keep the CIT Grand Delusion Train on the tracks to DelusionVille. Preston wrote one more rebuttal (heh) to my OP on Page 2 where he quotes himself, saying,

Neither Preston or TerrorCell managed to even write on my topic, but we still have “Lloyd-bashing / Light Pole” drivel posted and reposted there anyway. However, on this thread I took the time to quote from TerrorCell’s OP and point out the fatal error in his thinking that renders everything completely useless to our Pentagon Investigation. Nothing in the OP means anything, IF TerrorCell cannot produce verifiable ‘times’ placing these events somewhere on the Pentagon TIMELINE of events. Terror’s OP opens, saying,

Okay. WHEN???? If O’Brien takes off at 3:00 AM or 11:00 AM in the morning, then nothing in Terror’s OP means ANYTHING, because our Pentagon ‘explosions’ take place between 9:31:39 AM and 10:15 AM as shown in my Pentagon Timeline with supporting evidence. The DoD was carrying out at least five (5) antiterrorism wargame exercises ( http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/boeing.htm = see Addendum at bottom) on 9/11 that included 22 Jets with some being remote-controlled. That simple fact means this C-130 can be looking at any of these NORAD-controlled “live-fly” Jets part of these exercises, OR any of the DoD observer planes overseeing the wargames. Imagine the completely different sequence of events taking place IF all Commercial Jetliners carried ‘direct-line’ transponders in the tail that NOBODY aboard can access to turn off without disabling the entire electrical system and a backup battery. :0)

The idea that Bearded Jihadist Radicals (heh) can take over a Jetliner and have the transponders turned off in two minutes is RIDICULOUS, unless that is just one component of the DoD/FBI Inside-Job Cover Story. We are talking about a 100-Ton Jetliner that supposedly turned around 315 miles west of the Pentagon, and one that did a 360 turn, but the greatest Air Force in the world could not locate and stop prior to smacking into the most well-protected Military Installation on earth. :0) However, TerrorCell is going on and on about a C-130 flying around at some undetermined time like that adds ANYTHING to this Pentagon Investigation, when O’Brien could not even look down and recognize the Pentagon or even make one comment about the “Smoke” billowing out after the explosion. Therefore, everything presented in the O’Brien C-130 OP episode has no bearing on anything, UNLESS TerrorCell can research the incident further and provide the ‘time stamp’ data connecting these maneuvers to ANYTHING already established on the Pentagon Timeline. My reply to TerrorCell’s “The research consistently put for by Aldo & Craig in regards to the Pentagon is light years (heh) ahead of yours . . .” NONSENSE was quoted ‘word for word’ to begin my rebuttal. His “It has been endorsed by Pentagon victim April Gallop and even actual firefighters who were there on the scene” nonsense is irrelevant and ridiculous, as explained in my rebuttal directly under his reposted comments. This is what you call a ‘Rebuttal’ to a standing CIT Chat-Monkey misstatement of the facts based upon EVIDENCE that proves he is talking out of his hat, but Mr. “one-liner drivel” Avenger here calls that SPAM. :0)

The biggest problem with ALL these CIT guys is they refuse to accept the ‘multiple attack’ explanation supported by THE EVIDENCE. I can agree with the CIT guys that the Light Poles were already down during the 9:36:27 AM “Big Boom” ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78448 ) Attack, because they were all knocked down at 9:31:39 AM by the Decoy Flyover Plane. That will be ‘the answer’ every day and on every CIT Chat-Monkey Thread where they continue to ignore the 911Truth looking them in the chat-monkey face for which they all have NO REPLY. “When” all of these events take place is just as important as ‘what’ happened, whether you so-called Pentagon Investigators (heh) ever wake the hell up or not. The difference between ‘my theories’ and those of everyone here is that mine include ‘multiple’ attacks at 9:31 AM and 9:36 AM, which is the MOST IMPORTANT FACT in this Pentagon Case BY FAR. Where is HONWAY anyway? :0) He comes and goes from this LC Pentagon Forum over this “9:31:39 AM First Explosion” argument standing against his “9:38ish First Explosion” Opening Post Thesis ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=16133 ) with NO BASIS IN REALITY WHATSOEVER. My standing rebuttal arguments on THAT THREAD represent the ‘same answer’ to the contradictions of CIT Theories on THEIR THREADS for the very same reasons. Every viable 911Truth Pentagon Explanation includes a Pentagon Timeline Of Events itemizing the precise times each event takes place in chronological order and these CIT TV Chat-Monkeys HAVE NO TIMELINE and HAVE NEVER HAD ONE, because they confuse ‘activity’ with actually ‘accomplishing’ something in their feeble attempts to run a coherent Pentagon Investigation based upon THE FACTS in this case.

The fact is that my Pentagon Timeline Thread is going to the bottom of the LC Pentagon Forum Board without a successful rebuttal FROM ANYONE, because the events on that timeline have been researched and all are supported by THE EVIDENCE. If anyone here has evidence for one of the forty-four points being changed, then head over there and start debunking. :0) The CIT Chat-Monkeys are encouraged to post a copy of ‘their’ Pentagon Timeline of events at their earliest convenience, so everyone here can see how they include listing Pentagon activities in a precise sequential order. Will any of the CIT guys make that kind of commitment to their “Light Years Ahead” Pentagon Investigation? No! Do you know why? Yes! They are here to razzle dazzle you with their “Lloyd-bashing / Light Pole” NONSENSE without regard to placing any of these events on any Timeline whatsoever, because then the CIT guys must accept the 911Truth that the First Explosion took place a 9:31:39 AM like the FAA Timeline says (0932 = http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf ). Craig and Aldo are running around the Arlington County neighborhoods asking a ton of questions about ‘what’ people saw over six years ago without one concern about ‘when’ anyone saw anything, because they are basing their Investigation on a false ‘one attack’ theory with all their “PLANE” witnesses thrown into one “9:38 AM First Explosion” pot.

The underlying problem rendering ALL of their efforts completely useless is they are looking at one group of witnesses seeing the 9:31:39 AM Decoy Flyover Plane ‘they’ think hit the Pentagon during the missile strike AND a second group that saw the 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet about to really crash into the Pentagon. However, all five light poles were knocked down at 9:31:39 AM and these yo-yo’s only see ‘one attack,’ which is the reason ‘they think’ Lloyd is lying in the first place. :0) I am willing to let these CIT guys run around in circles to the end of time, but our readers should have every opportunity to see the 911Truth and avoid stepping in their giant pile of do-do. :0) Helping our readers draw ‘informed conclusions’ means I must take the time drafting rebuttals to each CIT Chat-Monkey OP thesis paper using ‘my’ multiple attack arguments, because obviously Avenger HAS NONE and I am not about to start posting his arguments in the place of mine. If you do not care to see my rebuttals to the CIT-TV Chat-Monkey NONSENSE, then by all means put me on ignore and scroll pass my work. Some of these readers would rather see well-presented evidence-supported rebuttals, than witness the same chat-monkeys writing one-liner drivel back and forth like that means something.

GL,

Terral

no mach12 missiles knocking down light poles in CIT's world.

Hi Avenger with Honway and PentagonRC mentioned:

Now we are beginning to gather enough evidence to draw some informed conclusions about how this O’Brien-flown C-130 fits into the larger Pentagon Picture.

The “about 9:30 AM” reference is a general statement of the facts, but this appears close enough to help our investigation. Since O’Brien is throttling down the runaway at 9:30 AM to then say, “When we took off, we headed north and west . . .,” then his takeoff time was just after the 9:31:39 AM original Missile Strike taking place at Column Line (CL) 14 just one minute and thirty seconds after he was taxiing down the runway. Andrews Air Force Base is 11 miles from the Pentagon (Google Earth) and the painted up AA-looking A-3 Jet had already flown over the Pentagon to begin the 4 minute 48 second turn for the strike on CL 11. Remember the Pentagon smoke plume was small from “inside-the-building fires” ( http://blog.lege.net/content/Seven_Hours_in_September.pdf ) from 9:31:39 AM to the A-3 Jet attack at 9:36:27 AM.



O’Brien takes off heading northwest from Andrews AFB just after 9:32 AM when Lloyd and his helper are in the southbound lane of Washington Blvd about to begin wrestling with Pole #1 ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78448 ) and Terry Cohen is running to inspect the “Just Smoke” ( http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=5751351276150910098 ) E-Ring Entry Hole from the construction trailer just 100 feet away. The 9:31:39 AM Decoy Flyover Plane was the ‘low-flying’ AA-painted A-3 Jet that should have impacted CL 11 to create an almost simultaneous explosion and bring the E-Ring roof down in one big attack. Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper saw the ‘low-flying’ AA-painted A-3 Jet about to strike the Pentagon at 9:31:39 AM, but both men ran north ( http://web.telia.com/~u43109230/flight77/texts/Wallace.txt ) to experience the missile impact ‘behind’ them; as both took cover under their vehicles for the 4 minutes and 48 seconds the A-3 made the wide circular turn. This is where O’Brien and his crew picked up the AA-painted A-3 to identify the Jet by the ‘silver color’ making final approach to the Pentagon E-Ring wall using the North Of Citgo Flight Path.

Since O’Brien has just taken off, then any aircraft already in the sky would be descending to his altitude with his “10 o’clock” representing a plane flying in from the west exactly like the eastbound A-3 making his 360-degree 4-minute and 48-second turn to strike CL 11.

This is where O’Brien appears to contradict himself, because no Bearded Terrorist-piloted 100-Ton Jetliner is going to be making any “aggressive turns,” as his words here better describe an “AA-painted military Jet” than any Jumbo Jetliner. At this point I wonder how an experienced Coast Guard pilot could confuse even a counterfeit smaller jet for a real 100-Ton Jetliner, but he talks about the ‘East Coast haze’ and these guys are trained to recognize aircraft silhouettes and color markings for these observation purposes and can make these mistakes in flight where no size comparisons can be made between two or more UFO’s. Since O’Brien was later told this was AA77, then his mind filled in the blanks and the rest is Disinfo History.

This is where O’Brien’s testimony begins to make sense, because he was previously unable to even see the Pentagon outline; but can now see where the A-3 Jet impacted CL 11 in the DoD attempt to bring the E-Ring roof down at 9:36:27 AM. O’Brien never saw the Pentagon between 9:31:39 AM before the 9:36:27 AM A-3 exploded against the E-Ring wall. This means his very first sighting of the AA-painted A-3 Jet was during the 360-degree turn between those ‘two explosions’ where the “Inside-The-Building Fire” and “Just Smoke” Pentagon Heliport Environment was transformed from the upper picture (9:31:39 AM – 9:36:26 AM) into the fiery inferno beginning with Lloyd’s “Big Boom” and Terry Cohen’s “Terrible Explosion” that ran Alan Wallace out from under his vehicle from the now 300-feet wide ‘Outside-The-Building Fires.”

Too big >> http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/2.jpg

If O’Brien had looked down at his “Navy-calibrated” wristwatch, he would have seen the little hand between the nine and ten with the big hand a minute pass the “7” and the second hand just pass the “5” saying 9:36:27 AM; just like the clock from the ‘bottom’ half of the ‘two-part’ picture above. By this time we are only six minutes and twenty seven seconds from the time O’Brien was taxiing down the runway about to take off heading north and west.

This C-130 flyover is the subject of the CIT Chat-Monkey story, but they fail to realize this AA-painted A-3 ran diversion for the 9:31:39 AM Missile Strike where the Decoy Plane was supposed to strike the Pentagon at almost the very same time. The Pole #1 mishap from the missile bow shockwave, and the starboard wing knocking down the other light poles, caused the remote-control joystick operator to ‘pull up’ during the 9:31:39 AM original attack run; which necessitated the 4-minute 48-second 360-degree ‘aggressive turn’ witnessed by O’Brien and his crew. O’Brien then flew through the 300-feet wide smoke plume created from the 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet attack thinking this was AA77, when we already know the ‘damage’ is insufficient for a 100-Ton Jetliner attack. The reason we know this C-130 was NOT the 9:31:39 AM Decoy Plane is because we have Lloyd’s and Alan Wallace’s corroborating testimony that this AA-looking Jet had ‘two engines.’

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/lamps.html

http://web.telia.com/~u43109230/flight77/texts/Wallace.txt

The airplane “appeared to be a Boeing 757,” because of the AA-77 paint job that Mark ‘later’ recalled was painted ‘silver’ and could identify from seeing pictures of a real AA Jetliner. The common pattern to all these Plane/Pole witnesses is those ‘nearer’ to the Jet see a BIG PLANE and those farther away see a smaller commuter plane from a distance. Alan Wallace was under his vehicle for Lloyd’s “Big Boom” and Terry Cohen’s “Terrible Explosion” witnessed by O’Brien at 9:36:27 AM from a distance, until he approached the Pentagon and could then make out exactly what was going on. The DoD has declassified O’Brien’s story and you are looking through this information, because the inside job bad guys know 911Truth investigators ‘can’ use this testimony to make a 9:38 AM First Explosion (Honway and PentagonRC disinfo material) case, even though we have the FAA Timeline Report saying the Pentagon was first attacked a 9:32 AM ( http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf ). However, we KNOW for a FACT that the AA-painted A-3 Jet did NOT hit the Pentagon at 9:31:39 AM with the initial Missile Strike, because Lloyd saw the PLANE and saw the HOLE and testifies the hole was simply too small.

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/018.html

Lloyd can NEVER tell anyone what happened to the AA-painted A-3 Jet, because it flew over the E-Ring roof at 9:31:39 AM when he was driving south away from the E-Ring Entry Hole location. Lloyd and his helper had their backs turned to the E-Ring wall when the A-3 made the 4-minute and 48-second wide turn to create the “Big Boom” witnessed by O’Brien from a distance. The O'Brien-flown C-130 was in position to witness the 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet explosion, but in no position to see the original 9:31:39 AM Missile Strike.

GL,

Terral

Hi TerrorCell:

This is how these CIT TV Chat-Monkeys (they have a video you know = http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...ightPole_TV.jpg ) continue earning their ‘chat-monkey’ status in Pentagon Investigation History.

This is the common ‘debunking rebuttal’ (heh) we receive from the CIT crew. I swear these guys play on the computer when mommy is working without her knowledge and without her permission. :0) Terror’s “Mach 12” references are to the FreedomFiles.org Missile Analysis Commentary here:

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

Does any of this missile analysis commentary mean I believe the Pentagon Missile striking Column Line 14 at 9:31:39 AM was traveling Mach 12??? No, so stop being foolish. :0) This missile analysis commentary is presented as ‘evidence’ that the Pentagon Missile made final approach to strike the Pentagon wall at a speed somewhere ‘above Mach 1,’ which many of these chat-monkeys have no ability to fathom using their ‘stone age’ mentalities; thus the “chat-monkey” characterizations. :0) Mr. TerrorCell here is pointing out the 911Truth that the CIT Chat-Monkeys have NO provision in their explanations for a 9:31:39 AM Missile Strike AND a second 9:36:27 AM AA-painted A-3 Jet Attack. This means all of their 9:31:39 AM ‘plane’ witnesses AND their 9:36:27 AM ‘plane’ witnesses are all tossed into one CIT Chat-Monkey pot (hmm good), so these guys can take out whatever tastes good to a chat-monkey for making their BOGUS “FBI/Lloyd/Father McGraw Used Human Hands To Stage Light Poles” Theories. :0)

We have these EXPLOSIONS and the E-Ring Entry Hole ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...3/NoWayBaby.jpg ) and C-Ring Exit Hole ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...igCringhole.jpg ), with D-Ring damage in between ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...DringDamage.jpg ), and Five Downed Light Poles ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...DownedPoles.jpg ) on the same 45-degree flight path ( http://www.pentagonresearch.com/lamps.html ), but these CIT guys cannot tell you what actually hit the Pentagon; because they have no clue. :0)

They jump up and down like good chat-monkeys shouting “Lloyd Is A LIAR and Father McGraw too!” and everyone is supposed to bow down and worship . . . Heh . . . These guys are funny . . . The CIT guys can tell you at any time what is going on inside the heads of the other CIT Chat-Monkeys, because none of them ever had an original idea in the past six years. That is why all their "Lloyd-bashing / Light Pole" Threads are practically identical and could easily represent the delusions of just one banana-eating cartoon character . . .

For CIT Video Info >> http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...3/CIT_Video.jpg

GL,

Terral

Terral: was not reported as being seen by anyone.
This, however, was: Do they look anything alike?

Hi Mrn:

Mrn is having no luck pushing the Official "Flight 77 Crashed Here" DoD Cover Story with his two-sentence drivel.

That is because the DoD ‘Rogue Element’ Bad Guys Painted the A-3 Skywarrior Retrofit ( http://tomflocco.com/fs/WitnessesLink.htm ) to look like an AA Jetliner, which is where the AA-looking debris originated . . .



. . . in the first place. We have nowhere near enough E-Ring wall damage for any 100-Ton Jetliner, but we have plenty of damage and debris for a smaller Jet seen by many witnesses as a ‘small plane’ and a ‘commuter plane.’

Michael Kelly >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0qpbwHCYI

Don Wright >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schV0rKCRwA

Many people thought they saw Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon, because that is exactly what the DoD Bad Guys wanted them to see. The witnesses up close and personal saw a Big Plane, but those far away in the distance saw a small plane crash into the Pentagon. Everyone is telling the 911Truth from ‘their’ own perspectives, but we must interpret everything from the 911Truth told by the evidence. The 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet would have made a larger impact hole near Column Line 11, but the remote-control operative raised the joystick just a bit to miss the Green SUV and cable spools, which caused the Jet to crash into the second story concrete slab location (ouch!) shown here:

First Picture >> http://home.att.net/~carlson.jon/PentagonA3wreckage1.htm

The port-side engine struck the second story concrete slab to fall straight down beside the green SUV for the starboard engine to enter the Pentagon, because the right-side wing was lowered for the left-side engine to miss the SUV. The A-3 Jet was packed full of TNT and detonated at impact to throw debris clear across Washington Blvd and north onto the Pentagon lawn, because the Jet used the North Of Citgo Flight Path still some 60-degrees south in relation to the E-Ring wall. This is the reason why there was so little Jet debris found inside the Pentagon.

This is the only explanation today derived from all the evidence that answers all the questions without creating a myriad of contradictions. Mrn can point to all the pictures of 100-Ton Jetliners he wants, but he still has no evidence for anything like that crashing at the Pentagon on 9/11 or any other day. That is why Mrn is chicken to start his own "Flight 77 Crashed Into The Pentagon" Thread, because he has NO EVIDENCE to support those ridiculous claims.

GL,

Terral