Hi Guys,

I was wondering if anyone knows or better still....as a copy of the following show.

16th September 2001 - Dick Cheney interviewed on NBC Meet The Press with Tim Russert.

A transcript can be found here...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/ne...vp20010916.html

Even if it's a youtube/google stream, I do not mind.

I really desperately want to get my hands on a copy of the interview as it reveals a lot of the truth about what happened that day. I've had a good look but can't find any video of it on the internet, so if anyone could help me, I would be most thankful.

I heard that Dylan may have a copy of it, so if anyone know Dylan and would be so kind to ask on my behalf.

If I can get a copy of it, then I'll be able to produce a undebunkable video which proves without a shadow of doubt that 9/11 was a inside job.

I can do this without having to mention, NIST, Thermite, Explosions, Near Free Fall Speeds of WTC 1,2 & 7, Put Options and a whole other heap of other things which debunkers think they have debunked.

I presented this evidence and it's never been refuted as it's Dick Cheney own words which debunk the 9/11 commission version of events, and proves that Dick Cheney and the Secret Service knew AA77 was heading to the Pentagon, while on a video conference with them and THEY NEVER WARNED THEM.

If I can get a copy of this, I'll should be able to show how it was an inside job in under 2 minutes.

I'm begging....if anyone can help me, it would be very highly appreciated.

Thanks

Stundie ;)

Can you point to the specific section of the transcript which proves it was an inside job? I mean...if it's so obvious, it seems a bit backwards that the white house would have it on their website.

Never been refuted?

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...?showtopic=9109

Hi Woody,

I didn't realise that you refute Mineta and I'm going to have a good read through your Blog when I get some more time, but I can already see an error.

Your blog seem to suggest that Mineta could be lying. This I find very hard to believe seeing as he testified under oath and would be guilty of perjury.

Also, could you point me to the following evidence please, as I've had a quick read and you point out theser contradict Mineta.

- White House transcript
I've not seen any White House Transcript which proves that Mineta is incorrect. Could you provide some proof of this please?

- White House notes
Could you point to the White House notes which contradict Mineta?

- White House record, PEOC Shelter Log, Sept. 11, 2001
This is not retrievable is it?? So how do we know this is definetly the case?? This would not be presentable evidence in a court of law.

- USSS report, "Executive Summary: U.S. Secret Service Timeline of Events" Oct. 3, 2001
Again, could you point to the evidence please. If you are talking about the words of the USSS men, then again, could you show me their statements as I've read the 9/11 commission and their statements never appear unless I'm mistaken?

- USSS memo, OVP 9/11 Timeline, Nov. 17, 2001
Again, could you point to this please.

- Statement of Dick Cheney
Which statement from Dick Cheney? I've not seen this, could you provide the evidence again.

- Statement of Lynne Cheney
Again, could your provide the evidence.

I'm not sure how you have come to the conclusions and you also use Richard Clarke, which I find amazing I have evidence from Richard Clarke which puts Mineta in the PEOC before 9:30. However, I'm always willing to update my thinking when new evidence is presented.

I will look forward to hearing from you and listing your evidence.

Thanks

Stundie

Sorry, I'll rephrase this....Its never been refuted at SLC and JREF.

Just read the transcript.....this all happens in chronological order.

Cheney admits to being in his office when the 2nd plane hits the WTC, USSS men come and grab him as they think AA77 (Which they are tracking) is heading to the White House.

They take Cheney to the PEOC, where he meets Mineta and they have a video conference with the Pentagon and others.

Then the Pentagon is hit, even though Cheney says that USSS were tracking AA77.

Anyway, this OP was a request for the video. If you need to understand more about this issue, then I would advise you to read this...

http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters...ClarkePaper.pdf

hey stundie,

you can find these documents I refer to in the notes of the 9/11 CommReport.

By the way, here is another detailed report, obviously based on Cheney's (and other's) recollections that is perefectly in accordance with the official story:

At about 9:35 a.m., Vice President Cheney was standing by his desk, looking at the TV in the corner. A Secret Service agent said to him, in a tone that brooked no dissent, "Sir, we have to leave now." The agent grabbed the vice president by the back of his belt and aimed him at the door. "They practice this," says Cheney. "You move. Whether you want to be moved or not, you're going. They don't exactly pick you up and carry you. It's more like they propel you forward." Cheney was unflappable about his hasty exit. As he was swept through the outer office, the vice president reached out and grabbed a magazine, a copy of that week's Economist, off the table. "I'm always carrying something in case I get hung up someplace," Cheney explains. "I've got to have something to read."

Down the hallway, past the empty Oval Office, the vice president was rushed into a tunnel outside a bombproof bunker known as the PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center. About 30 miles away, at Dulles airport, air-traffic controllers were watching agape as a plane raced toward Washington at 500 miles an hour. A controller looking at a radar screen had noticed the blip, heading straight for the White House, about 12 miles out. As ABC's "20/20" later reconstructed the scene, another controller called the Secret Service: "We have unidentified, very fast-moving aircraft inbound toward your vicinity, eight miles west." In the Dulles radar room, the horrified air-traffic controllers counted down the miles. Five, four, three—then the plane began to turn away. The tension ebbed. One of the controllers suggested the blip must be an Air Force fighter, "one of our guys." But the plane kept turning until it had made a full 360-degree circle. "Oh my God," yelled a controller, "he's coming back!" The blip suddenly disappeared. At Reagan National airport, just across the Potomac River from the capital, an air-traffic controller reported that the Pentagon had been hit. At Dulles, there were audible gasps in the control room.

In the relative safety of a tunnel far below the White House, Cheney was told by the Secret Service that a plane had been tracked heading for the White House at high speed. The vice president reached for a phone on the wall and said, "Get me the president." The chief executive was not easy to reach; he was at that moment being hustled on to Air Force One for a quick departure from Sarasota. The president had already been told by his chief of staff, Andrew Card, that "America is under attack." Now, when Bush finally came on the line, Cheney told him that the White House had been "targeted."

As the president and vice president spoke on the secure line, Cheney's wife, Lynne, appeared in the tunnel with her Secret Service agent. She had been at her downtown office when the second tower was hit shortly after 9 a.m. She was moved "rather briskly" to a car, she recalls, and sped toward the vice president's mansion in northwest Washington. Abruptly, her car made a U-turn and headed back downtown toward the White House. She arrived just as the complex was being evacuated. At first the guards would not let her in, but her determined agent drove up on the sidewalk around the barrier. Mrs. Cheney was rushed down to the PEOC to meet her husband.

As she arrived, Vice President Cheney had just learned that the Pentagon had been hit. The first reports indicated that a helicopter had crashed into it. Over the phone, Bush was saying that he wanted to come back to Washington right away. Cheney urged him not to come back, as he later recalled, "until we could find out what the hell was going on."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14738713/site/newsweek/page/0/


Right now I'm preparing my next piece on Mineta. Evidence that he doesn't tell the truth is still mounting. I know the paper you've mentioned already, and I had a dispute with the author right here on this forum. I understand that people don't like such a "smoking gun" to be debunked, but ignoring adverse evidence doesn't help our case. The fact that most people, including venerable figureheads like Peter Dale Scott and DR Griffin, don't see the problems with Mineta's testimony worries me, but believe me, I wouldn't throw in my entire reputation if I was not 100% sure. And my numerous objections have not been adressed yet, let alone disproven.

You can refute Mineta but what other Flight would Cheney be talking about?? If you say Flight 93 ask yourself, what's was Flight 93 50 miles out from and closing at the time??

Hi Woody,

You can't be serious when you post this as evidence. As the writer of this article puts it..

A story it appears to be...As it bears no relevence to the facts.

A few problems I've already spotted but you'll have to excuse me as I've not got time to respond properly to this, but just reading this doesn't add up.

I'll break down what you've quoted and I'll explain some of the problems I have with it...

So according to this story, it abouts 9:35am approx 2 mins before the Pentagon is hit agreed??

BTW...I will not laugh at the prospect of the VP grabbing something to read in the middle of a terrorist attack, just in case he gets hung up someplace?? WTF!! :o Anyway.....

So in 2 minutes, AA77 (I guess this is the plane they are talking about!) was heading towards the White House and then according to the ATC at Dulles Radar room, it gets to 5, 4 and 3 miles away from the White House then began to turn away?? :o

Next thing "He's coming back!" and the blip disappears as it hits the Pentagon.

So after the plane as hit the Pentagon, he asks for the President?? :o

What was Cheney doing between 9:00am and this time...Reading his Economist Magazine??

Even though Bush had given a speech at 9:29am http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...eech#a929speech and was aware of the Terrorist attack, the VP and President (According to this article) never spoke until after the Pentagon attack?? Bush was on TV to tell everyone that America was under attack. Wasn't Cheney aware of what was going off??

It also suggested in that quote that Bush didn't know that the White House was targetted until after 9:37am?? Even though the Secret Service were shipping Bush off and were tracking AA77 because they got Cheney out of the White House?? :blink:

Bush was on his way to Air Force One and nobody told the President his home was a target until after AA77 struck? Even though he had already left the school after his speech at 9:29am.

So Mrs Cheney met Dick in the PEOC. Is this at 9:52?? Or at 9:58 when Cheney is at the PEOC as the commission states?? The complex is being evacuated even though Cheney says in his interview with Tim Russert on 16th Sept 2001 that there was an evacuation going off before he was at the PEOC...and before the Pentagon was hit.

Anyway...back to this story...

So Cheney didn't find out about the Pentagon attack until 9:52/9:58am?? Over 14 minutes after the attack, considering that most news networks report this minutes after the attacks?? :o

Proof of news networks reporting the Pentagon attack minutes after it happened. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...39mediapentagon

OK....Lets carry on....

So this was the Shoot Down order then?? This was given before UA93 crashed then? The reason I ask is that on the next quote it says its now 9:58am...so this means UA93 could have been shot down if this was true??

Anyway....

So is this now the 2nd time they goto the PEOC?? And the Shoot Down order was given before 9:58am??

You can see the problems I'm having with all of this?? This article is dated 2007 and obviously uses some of the 9/11 commissions narrative, however, if you are critical of the 9/11 report and respect DRG findings, then you should in theory, pay no attention to this article.

However, you seem critical of Norman Mineta and when I read quotes like this from your blog, I think you are out to prove the official story as the truth and question your motives...

So you are telling everyone that reads your blog, that the PEOC was not aware of the Pentagon attack until after 10am?? Over 22 minutes after the attack!! :o

WHERE IS YOUR PROOF OR IS THIS YOUR CONCLUSION??

Don't they have access to news channels?? News reports of the Pentagon attacks came within minutes of it happening. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...39mediapentagon

I'm going to assume that you are mistaken, but you seem to think of Mineta as some kind of bad person and you appear to demonise him, but I'm not sure why??

Maybe you could ellaborate on why Mineta is a liar??

Cheers

Stundie

Hi IVXX,

You've just quoted one of the so called debunkers favourite lie......It was flight UA93, but like you said, where was Flight UA93 ever from? To this day, we are not sure what it was target was.

Another favourite lie by debunkers is, there are loads of statements which contradict Norman Minetas times but to this day, I've asked but I've not seen a single one.


One thing which confirms that Norman Mineta is right about his times is the flight path of AA77 according to the FDR, which puts AA77 50 miles out from the Pentagon at approx 9:27am. So Mineta may be wrong a minute or 2, but to believe that he is out by 30-40 mins as some debunkers suggest, without a single piece of evidence is hilarious to watch.

Debunkers are just clinging on to the 19 Arab hijackers theory, because having to face the fact that the government may have orchestrated it is too much for them to bear.

If you fancy a bit of a laugh and want to see debunkers changing the stories and making silly claims, have a read of this and see how they tried to debunk this but failed...very, very miserably.

This was not long after I was kicked from the JREF forum for asking the same questions and exposing Gravy as a liar.
http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=365

This is a later post which Truthnet 911 wrote a paper about Mineta.
http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=1706

If you can't be bothered to read it, lyou'll see every debunker tactic from strawmen, ignorance, cherry picking, semantics, just about any tactic and everything they try to do to discredit Mineta testimony is backed up by NO EVIDENCE!!

Cheers

Stundie :D

Wow stundie yust read the whole thread over at slc. Impressive research and clearly this has not been debunked.

Keep doing what you believe is right.

That's an easy one.

Flight 93 was believed to be airborne after 10:03, the alleged crash at Shanksville, and it was believed to be heading towards Washington afterwards. Air Traffic controllers of Washington Center reported it, the military reported it, people in the PEOC like David Bohrer reported it, and the 9/11 CommReport reported it. Please take a look here

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2007/04/mi...sh-at-camp.html

and at the Flight 93 section here on this forum where I have added additional evidence.

Please understand me right: I'm not saying that Flight 93 was actually airborne after 10:03 and over Maryland, I say it was believed to be. It was also believed to have crashed near Camp David by ATC, the military, and government officials. We have personal statements from Colin Powell and Ari Fleischer confirming that, and surely these two were in continous contact with the people in the PEOC (Cheney, Mineta, etc.). So regardless if this Flight 93 was for real or only a phantom, Cheney's shootdown order was meant for him.

Haven't you listened to the NORAD tapes yet? Just ask Dylan. The tapes confirm that Flight 93 was reported airborne after its alleged crash, including its "second" crash near Camp David.

stundie,

I quoted this article (it's from Nov. 2001, by the way, not 2007) only to show that Cheney's version is in accordance with the story of the 9/11 Commission - he was moved out of his office shortly before the Pentagon attack and stayed in the underground corridor for some 15, 20 minutes before he went to the PEOC. I did this because you claimed that Cheney himself admits in the Russert interview that he was in the PEOC earlier (which is not right). So I don't say that everything is honest in this article. But Cheney can't be taken as witness for the correctness of Mineta's testimony, as you do it.

Frankly, I'm not willing to repeat all my arguments to people who don't have read them on my blog (no offense meant). So please take a look at my various articles and the sources, some of them are unique and nowhere else to find.

I'd just like to stress my most important points:

- 1 - The most striking evidence that Mineta doesn't tell the truth comes from Mineta himself, in an interview from June 2006 :

I grabbed some manuals and some papers, went down to the car, and we went over to the White House. As we went in West Executive Drive, people pouring out of the Executive Office building, people running out of the White House, and I said to my driver and security guy, "Is there something wrong with this picture? We are driving in, and everybody else is running away."

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/min0int-8

This incident - people running out of the White House and, most important, the Executive Office Building - occurred, according to all available sources, minutes after the Pentagon strike - i.e. between 9:40 and 9:45. Mineta is clearly contradicting himself here. How can he have been in the PEOC at 9:20 if he arrived at the White House at 9:40 only?

- 2 - There is one huge difference between the JREFers and me: They claim that Mineta "mixed up" the times due to a bad memory. The fact that Mineta has repeatedly made the same claim proves that this can't be true. Mineta lies intentionally. This leads to my third point:

- 3 - you're asking me for Mineta's motives to lie, which is an absolutely justified question. I can't look into his head, of course, but have dealt with this question here:

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2007/04/mi...sh-at-camp.html

The most important source is the "Mineta Myth". It shows that Mineta likes to swagger a little bit about his role in the attacks. He claims that he issued the historical grounding order for all planes, but according to this article, it was not him, but Monte Belger:

http://www.slate.com/?id=2063935

I don't want to "demonise" Mineta, but I think this sheds serious doubts on his honesty. In his first interview with Bob Woodward (January 2002) he claimed that he issued the grounding order as a response to the plane that approached the Pentagon. And he had to stick to this already published claim when he was interviewed by the 9/11 Commission. This is no proof of course - as I said, I can't look into this head - but a plausible explanation why he lied. I will elaborate this on my blog further.

Hi Woody,

The problem I have the conversation that Mineta overheard is with this being Flight 93, is that UA93 was never 50, 30 or 10 miles away from Camp David or Washington?

If this was the case, then you may have a point, but I'm not an American and I'll be honest and say I do not know much about the flight path of UA93, but as far as I'm aware, it was not even this close to Camp David neither was it close to Washington.

As far as UA93 heading for Camp David, it was SUSPECTED this is where it was heading, but there is no way to confirm it. The hijackers never left any notes or plans regarding what they doing.

Again, I would ask you to look at the times Mineta claims and look at the FDR data. I asked a chap called Rob (I think) at Pilots for 9/11 truth for the the time that AA77 was 50 miles away from the Pentagon and at 9:27, AA77 was 50 miles away....This fits in with what Mineta says, give or take a minute or 2??

I've listen to some of the NORAD tapes and I'm not doubting that NORAD may have thought UA93 was still airborne after it crashed or as I suspect, shot down. This doesn't prove your case though and again, when you say that NORAD thought it had crashed (The 2nd crash near Camp David) as you call it, how far was it away? Also, if they thought it was still airborne, what were they in reality tracking?

The question was "Where was Flight UA93 ever 50 miles, 30 miles and 10 miles from?" If you think this phantom flight was ever 50 miles, 30 miles and 10 miles away from the White House or the Pentagon, then you would need to provide proof of this, either in the NORAD tapes or in some other form.

Cheers

Stundie

Hi Woody,

Could you please address all the issues I've raised? I've taken the time to address all of your comments by quoting and either agreeing or disagreeing with you and I would appreciate if you would do the same. This should stop us from going around in circles and allow the discussion to flow freely.

Thank you...anway....

My bad!! Sorry you are correct, I was looking at the copyright date as I could not find a date for the article. DOH!! :P

Woody, you are incorrect and I would advise you to read the interview again....
http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/ne...vp20010916.html
VICE PRES. CHENEY: I'm convinced of that. Now, you know, it may have been phoned in by a crank, but in the midst of what was going on, there was no way to know that. I think it was a credible threat, enough for the Secret Service to bring it to me. Once I left that immediate shelter, after I talked to the president, urged him to stay away for now, well, I went down into what's call a PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, and there, I had Norm Mineta...
MR. RUSSERT: Secretary of Transportation.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: ...secretary of Transportation, access to the FAA. I had Condi Rice with me and several of my key staff people. We had access, secured communications with Air Force One, with the secretary of Defense over in the Pentagon. We had also the secure videoconference that ties together the White House, CIA, State, Justice, Defense--a very useful and valuable facility. We have the counterterrorism task force up on that net. And so I was in a position to be able to see all the stuff coming in, receive reports and then make decisions in terms of acting with it.

But when I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagon's been hit. We had word the State Department had been bombed, that a car bomb had gone off at the State Department. Turned out not to be true, but we didn't know that at the time. We had a report that Norm had provided that there were six airplanes that might have been hijacked, and that's what we started working off of, was that list of six.
So too clarify, Cheney headed to the PEOC and then heard that the Pentagon had been hit. I'm hoping that you are simply mistaken and that you are not lying intentionally??

You state that Cheney moved out of his office just before the Pentagon is hit and that he was in the shelter for some 15,20 mins, but where is your proof??

If you say the 9/11 commission, then Cheneys own words highlight that the commission is wrong and when you consider the 9/11 commission states that there is"conflicting evidence as to when the Vice President arrived in the shelter conference room" this doesn't help your arguement.

So if the article is not correct, then how can we take it as evidence to suggest that Mineta is wrong?

Cheney can be used as witness for the correctness of Minetas testimony as they were together in the PEOC (As they both state!) on 9/11 and Cheneys' interview coincides with Minetas statement.

None taken. I have raised an issue with one of your statements which you provide no proof for, yet you have not addressed it in your reply, so pleae feel free to clarify and provide proof for this statement you make in your blog....
Like everybody in the PEOC and the White House, Mineta was aware of the Pentagon crash after 10 o'clock.
You do not need to repeat anything, just provide evidence to support this claim.

I've got to partly agree with you..This article is brilliant and I'm going to read more about it as I've never seen this before. http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/min0int-8

It just confirms that Mineta statement to the commission is correct and given us more details about what happened that day.

This is according to the 9/11 commission. However Richard Clarke recommended the evacuation order 9:05am but it was supposedly ignored. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...acuationignored
Also Cheney states in his interview that there was an evacuation, this was before he arrived in the PEOC and before the Pentagon was hit.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/ne...vp20010916.html
VICE PRES. CHENEY: We evacuated Speaker Hastert to a secure facility, and later, the rest of the congressional leadership. I also ordered the evacuation of Cabinet members. And so we sent Tommy Thompson, Ann Veneman, Gale Norton also up to a secure facility. And in the days since, we've always maintained to say--I've spent a good deal of my time up at Camp David since the president returned to the White House just so we weren't both together in the same place so we could ensure the survival of the government.

The president was on Air Force One. We received a threat to Air Force One--came through the Secret Service...

MR. RUSSERT: A credible threat to Air Force One. You're convinced of that.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I'm convinced of that. Now, you know, it may have been phoned in by a crank, but in the midst of what was going on, there was no way to know that. I think it was a credible threat, enough for the Secret Service to bring it to me. Once I left that immediate shelter, after I talked to the president, urged him to stay away for now, well, I went down into what's call a PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, and there, I had Norm Mineta...
If Cheney (According to him) was evacuated by Secret Service before the Pentagon was hit, also if Cheneys' wife was picked up by Secret Service just after 9am, then the Secret Service knew of a threat, so you can bet there was some sort of evacuation at the White House before 9:45am as the commission states.

Who says he arrived at the PEOC at 9:40am?? If you are suggesting that he arrived because the evacuation was done at 9:45am, then you are using the commissions narrative, when there is evidence to suggest this happened earlier.

You think Mineta is intentionally lying?? :o

Again, you cannot establish no motive that would intentionally lie, and even more worryingly, you provide absolutley no proof that he is lying or mistaken.

The JREF and SLC never provided any proof and trust me, I asked. So I will ask you again, what proof is there to suggest that Mineta is wrong other than what the 9/11 commission states....Which is irretreivable alarm data and the words of 2 USSS men, whose statements we never get to see. Neither of these would be admissible in a court.

You have not dealt with the question, your blog seems to be an attempt to smear Mineta. You have not provided any proof that....Like everybody in the PEOC and the White House, Mineta was aware of the Pentagon crash after 10 o'clock. Your readers have to take your word for it as you provide no justification for it.

Plus its a perposterous claim, your are suggesting that the VP didn't know about the Pentagon attack(Pentagon was attacked at 9:37am) for over 23 minutes, even though it was reported by news networks minutes (9:39am) after it happened?? :rolleyes:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...39mediapentagon

As I said, your blog seems intent on smearing Mineta.

Mineta likes to swagger about his role?? WTF!! Where did you come up with this?
The article you posted is headed "How Bob Woodward made the secretary of transportation a false hero."
This article talks about how Bob Woodwards article made Mineta the hero of the day, when it should have been Monte Belger, because he gave the order to ground flights before Mineta arrived.

How does this make Mineta times wrong again? Belger may have given the order before Mineta, but thats not what we are arguing here.

Why, because Bob Woodward is blowing the Mineta trumpet, when in reality he should have been blowing the Belger trumpet??

The grounding order was given before that plane approached the Pentagon, regardless of wheter it was Mineta, Belger or Mickey Mouse....This does not prove that Mineta lied.

This is only a plausuble explanation if he had lied, but you have not established how Mineta as lied and as I said, you seem to demonise him without any justification.

After reading some of your blog, I have to say its very poorly researched and you seem to ignore lots of other evidence.

In the article on your blog called "Mineta, Cheney, the 5th plane and the shootdown order." You use the 9/11 commission to support it's own timeline to prove Mineta wrong. Then you post the following as evidence which I have already asked you for proof of in one of my postings above which you have not addressed.

Yet you ignore the commission when it says there is"conflicting evidence as to when the Vice President arrived in the shelter conference room"

I would point it all out to you, but that would require another threads and my only interest at this moment is trying to obtain a copy of this video.

I hope you address the issues I've raised but in my honest opinion, you seem intent on smearing Mineta.

Thanks

Stundie

Dear stundie,

I'm very busy these times and only 1 or 2 hours online daily, I'll try to address your points now, but will not go on like that for the next three months. Again, I ask you to go to my blog because then I don't have to repeat my arguments.

For instance, I have gathered my arguments that Flight 93 or phantom Flight 93 was approaching Washington even after 10:03 here:

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2007/04/mi...sh-at-camp.html

Additional evidence you can find here on this forum:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=11788

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=11961

As opposed to that, nobody knew where Flight 77 was between 8:56 and 9:32
(apart from Mineta)

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2007/08/wh...-after-856.html

and this is what made me go "Hmmm?" in the first place when I learned that Mineta claimed to have been informed by Monte Belger about its position at 9:25. After that, I checked Mineta's whereabouts.

Cheney entered the PEOC and then heard that the Pentagon had been hit. Correct. But this doesn't mean that the Pentagon was hit after Cheney entered the PEOC. It just means that he learned about it when he was in the PEOC. This is a difference.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: And when it entered the danger zone and looked like it was headed for the White House was when they grabbed me and evacuated me to the basement. The plane obviously didn't hit the White House. It turned away and, we think, flew a circle and came back in and then hit the Pentagon. And that's what the radar track looks like. This is from the Russert interview. Other sources confirm that, like the WashPost article from January 2002.

This is obvious. Do you doubt anybody in there was not informed about the Pentagon crash 20 minutes after???

You miss my point. I emphasized the evacuation of the Executive Office Building. This happened, according to ALL sources - CNN, Richard Clarke, Bob Woodward, and others - AFTER the Pentagon strike. Just google "Executive Office Building"+"evacuation". And it is something that can be still verified today. Someone coming from DC here? If Mineta has observed people running out there, this means that he arrived after the Pentagon strike.

Please. How should I be able to prove what motive Mineta has to lie? As I said, I can't look into his head. I'm only trying to make a plausible case. This article "The Mineta Myth" is no proof, but it shows that he's not the truth hero many people want him to be. In the interview with Woodward, he claims that he issued the grounding order as a reaction to the plane that was coming in to the Pentagon. So if he lies about issuing the grounding order, this throws serious doubts on his other claims.

No. I'm raising this issue because Mineta's testimony is often taken as evidence that the original planes hit their targets because Cheney foiled the air defence, i.e. a LIHOP scenario which I'm convinced is not right. I'm convinced that a plane swap occurred, that a secret plane, "phantom flight 93" approached Washington while Mineta and the other people were in the PEOC. I'm just proposing a Operation Northwoods scenario.

So I have now spent 45 minute to address your points, in part because you didn't understand my points properly. I will not do that again, I haven't got plenty of time for this stuff like you. Please inform yourself when the Executive Office Building was evacuated, and you will see that Mineta contradicts himself.

Hi Woody,

I understand mate, and I'll try and keep it short and sweet. I do not want to be arguing this point, I want to make sure that my argument is rock solid because I plan to make a video which proves an inside job. I've studied this particular point for over a year so I welcome the fact you've challenged it, because no one else as and I'm always up to changing my beliefs.

You seem to think that Mineta is wrong or lying about the time he went to the PEOC, me on the other hand think he's telling the truth. So as long as you agree that you will update your thinking, then we can move on swiftly. :)

Again, I'm not doubting this as I've read at 9/11 cooperative research but what does this prove? That they thought that flight 93 was still airborne, you have still not show where, or when this plane was 50, 30 and 10 miles away from.

Do you not see the problem with this. Lets say Mineta arrived and within 5 or 6 mine he heard the aid say the planes 50, 30 and 10. Then you are suggesting Mineta was in the PEOC at 10 o'clock-ish. The problem is what do you think the hell Norman Mineta was doing? Do you not think he was aware or made aware of the crisis after the 2nd plane hit, did you think he didn't know about it and decides to stroll into work at 10am?? Then you have Cheneys account which says he was there at the PEOC when the Pentagonwas hit (Which you challenge and I'll address later) and the fact that even the 9/11 commission it's self doubts Cheneys entry into the PEOC. A serious point you fail to aknowledge! Which casts even more doubt on your support of Cheneys timeline and Minetas.

Also Richard Clarkes account agrees with Mineta. Of course, if you think he's a liar, then I'll have to ask you why you do not think Cheney is.

You ignore other evidence which suggests other wise, if you read Cheneys account. It goes along like this and I suggest you read and see how this fits with your timeline.

Staff writer comes in, tells of 1st planne, he sees the 2nd plane hit on live on TV at 9:03 after, he thinks terrorist attack, the secret service are tracking AA77, the move him to shelter, he speaks with Bush, tells him about threat to airforce one and to, moves to to the PEOC (At 9:20ish according to Mineta, but according to you 10'o clock!!) and then hears of the Pentagon attack.

Do you not see you have nearly an hour period after he saw the 2nd plane at 9:03, to him being removed because of aa77 to speaking with the President, then going to the PEOC?? What was Cheney doing, reading his Economist Magazine which the article you posted says? :o

There is ample evidence at cooperative research which shows that people including the FBI knew about Flight AA77, so please do not scribe to this 9/11 commission fallacy.

Pleasd describe Minetas movements that day, because I do not see anywhere in your blog that shows mineta wrong, other that your opinion I'm afraid.

I would advise you to re-read his comments again. He enters the PEOC, he talks about his setup, after he ARRIVED, he hears of the Pentagon attack. You are seriously suggesting that the VP didn't know about the pentagon attack until after 10am, even though he STATES...that Secret Service were tracking AA77. I'm sorry, you can't be serious to think that the VP (Who was making decisions!) was not made aware of the attack for over 23 minutes?

To argue that is ridiculous considering that it was over the news withing minutes.

Where in ANY of those articles does it say he was in there for 15, 20 mins? :blink:

I've asked you this three times, so I'll ask again...I have raised an issue with one of your statements which you provide no proof for, yet you have not addressed it in your reply, so pleae feel free to clarify and provide proof for this statement you make in your blog....
Like everybody in the PEOC and the White House, Mineta was aware of the Pentagon crash after 10 o'clock.

So your arguement is that the VP didn't know about the Pentagon attack for over 23 minutes? Even though Secret Service were tracking it and it was on the news.

Think about it, that statement doesn't make sense, neither does it support what you are saying.

Again, I'm not doubting that there was an evacuation at 9:40-9:45, but if Secret Service thought that AA77 was heading towards then, just after 9 ish and before the Pentagon strike at 9:37, they didn't evacuate the whitehouse until afterwards?

Sorry, but I'm not buying it, I'm sure there would be more than one evacuation.

Given the choice of trusting either Mineta & Clarke, over Dick Cheney, I'd go with the double act.

You are so wrong here,

He may have given the order, but that order may have been given by someone else, maybe Monty Belger, this DOES NOT MAKE HIM WRONG OR A LIAR!

I hope you understand this, as it proves nothing.

I hate to say this, but I'm considering much worse.

Its a theory, but it as to be based on evidence, yours doesn't reply on much, other than speculation.

I understand your points, but they make little sense, because you ignore the overwheling evidence which blows your theory.

However, with new evidence, I hope I can update your thinking.

He doesn't contradict himself, he says the place was being evacuated and as I show if Secret Service thought flight AA77 was a threat to the white house, they would evacuated before the plane hit the Pentagon.

It seems like you have brought into the commissions distortions, which I will eventually show you are exactly that...distortions.

When you look at the evidence which supports cheney and the commissions timeline like the dodgy alarm data which they can retrieve, to the supposed words of 2 USSS men, versus every other single piece of evidence, from Richard Clarke, to David Bohrer who says Cheney leaves for the PEOC after 9, to Cheneys own account in the 9/16/01 interview, you can only come to a single conclusion.

I'll will post Cheneys interview from Tim Russert and I'll challenge put my timline down, against yours and ask, the people here which one is more reliable and credible. SoI can see the times of how things went down according to you.

Cheers

Stundie
Stundie

stundie,

really, I recommend to you seriously to improve your text interpretation capabilites before engaging in discussions on public forums. I'm not going to repeat all my arguments here because you're obviously resistant to logic, here's just the - in your eyes - most important one as an example how poor your capabilities are.

I said Mineta was aware of the Pentagon crash after 10 o'clock. You interpret this as if I'm saying he was not aware of the Pentagon crash before 10 o'clock. This interpretation is wrong. Maybe he learned of the attack at 9:45, maybe at 9:50. I'm just saying that he was aware of the attack AT LEAST at 10 o'clock. Do you grasp that finally?

You're making the classical mistake of mixing up sufficient and necessary condition, and your argumentation is full of this kind of poor text analysis and logical flaws. Please do the 9/11 movement a favor and improve your text analysis before engaging in discussions with JREFers and other people.

This is my last post in this thread, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you anymore. I really tried my best.

I'm resistant to logic?? hahahahahaha!!

I've pointed out the flaws in your logic and how you ignore evidence, which doesn't fit your theory. Now......your argument boils down to that Mineta was aware at 10 o'clock of the Pentagon attack??

Well I'm not going to argue that because I believe he would have learned about it mintues after the attack after 9:37am, as it was all over the news within minutes, he was in the PEOC at the time (Cheney states this too!) and that Secret Service were tracking AA77 as they evacuated Cheney from the White House. (The conversation he over hears with Cheney and the aid)

So I agree, Mineta would be aware of this at 10 O'clock, as would most of the worlds watching the news...but in your blog you say "Like everybody in the PEOC and the White House, Mineta was aware of the Pentagon crash AFTER 10 o'clock." when the reality is that "Like everybody in the PEOC and the White House, Mineta was aware of the Pentagon crash BEFORE 10 o'clock."

SO....How does this make Mineta wrong??

You are not making any valid reasons other than the official narrative which is easily proven wrong.

Now that Woody and his "Mineta is a liar" theory has been shown for what it is. I was wondering if we could go back to the original opening of this thread.

Meet The Press: With Tim Russert Interview Dick Cheney.
Aired on the 16 September 2001.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of purchasing a copy (If possible and not too expensive) of this show from NBC? I was wondering if any of the Loose Change Crew (Dylan, Jason or Korey) would have a copy??

Any help would be appreciated and as I've said, I will be able to prove 9/11 was an inside job, without having to mention NIST, Controlled Demolition, WTC 7 amd many of the other things we argue with debunkers about.

Cheers

Stundie

What?! You stated that he learned about he crash after 10 o clock then you changed it to at least 10 o clock. Who is lying here?

***sigh***

stundie and sliven,

Ever heard about semantics? No? Ok. Here's a crash course for you, from a non-native English speaker.

Where did I state that he learned about the crash after 10 o'clock?

I stated that he was aware of the crash after 10 o'clock. This statement does not imply that he was not aware of the crash before. I added the "at least" to my second statement only as clarification for people like you who don't know the difference between "being aware" and "getting aware".

Woody,

I've dealt with your claim, that they were aware of Pentagon crash after 10 o'clock, as was most other people in the world. The truth is, Mineta would have been aware of the Pentagon attack minutes after it happened, because he was with Cheney was in the PEOC before 10 o'clock! :rolleyes:

But I'll ask you again for the 2nd time, how does this make Mineta wrong?

Your blog is nothing more than a hit piece on Mineta, you do not show how he lies, you just say claim Mineta is a liar! You do not substantiate why he is a liar or what he is lsuppose to have lied about.

I've read your blog and to put a finer point on it, it's very poorly researched and utter shite!

Can anyone on the forum point me in the right direction of purchasing a copy (If possible and not too expensive!) of this show on NBC .

Meet The Press: With Tim Russert Interview Dick Cheney.
Aired on the 16 September 2001.

I was wondering if any of the Loose Change Crew (Dylan, Jason or Korey) would have a copy??

I want to make a video which will demonstrate this, I could use the transcript from the show, but it would sound so much better to hear it from the horses mouth.

Any help would be appreciated and as I've said, I will be able to prove 9/11 was an inside job, without having to mention NIST, Controlled Demolition, WTC 7 and many of the other things we argue with debunkers about.