Title: Explosive Questions
Remian - September 15, 2007 12:13 AM (GMT)
I have a few questions to further understand the proposed truth of the collapse of the World Trade Center.
It is somewhat obvious that explosives brought down WTC's 1, 2, and 7. Specifically dealing with 1 and 2, I have 2 questions:
1.) Whats the Quantity of thermite (thermate) required to bring down a WTC building
2.) How they where brought into the WTCs.
3.) How was it transported to the WTCs
4.) How stable where they as explosives (how long can they stay explosive without a catalyst or breaking down, becoming inefficient, etc.)
I know the answer to number 2, but I need them compiled for me for easy access, and the rest are for you. Thank you for your time.
Slamin - September 15, 2007 02:30 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Remian @ Sep 14 2007, 07:13 PM) |
I have a few questions to further understand the proposed truth of the collapse of the World Trade Center.
It is somewhat obvious that explosives brought down WTC's 1, 2, and 7. Specifically dealing with 1 and 2, I have 2 questions:
1.) Whats the Quantity of thermite (thermate) required to bring down a WTC building
2.) How they where brought into the WTCs.
3.) How was it transported to the WTCs
4.) How stable where they as explosives (how long can they stay explosive without a catalyst or breaking down, becoming inefficient, etc.)
I know the answer to number 2, but I need them compiled for me for easy access, and the rest are for you. Thank you for your time. |
Obvious in what way?
Do you parents approve of this?
:rolleyes:
roscoe - September 15, 2007 04:06 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 14 2007, 09:30 PM) |
| QUOTE (Remian @ Sep 14 2007, 07:13 PM) | I have a few questions to further understand the proposed truth of the collapse of the World Trade Center.
It is somewhat obvious that explosives brought down WTC's 1, 2, and 7. Specifically dealing with 1 and 2, I have 2 questions:
1.) Whats the Quantity of thermite (thermate) required to bring down a WTC building
2.) How they where brought into the WTCs.
3.) How was it transported to the WTCs
4.) How stable where they as explosives (how long can they stay explosive without a catalyst or breaking down, becoming inefficient, etc.)
I know the answer to number 2, but I need them compiled for me for easy access, and the rest are for you. Thank you for your time. |
Obvious in what way?
Do you parents approve of this?
:rolleyes:
|
Actually some good questions on the skeptics forum for a change.
Question 1
Actually it is impossible to answer this. We were denied access to the crime scene and they spirited away most (but not all) of the evidence and so we have to make a guess. However my guess (and this is personal and not necessarily the definitive answer) is that the Thermate (correctly identified by Prof Jones and now undeniable that traces were found in the twin towers and WTC7) was probably only used on the upper sections of the tower in order to ensure a symetrical collapse. A much larger charge was used to take away the centre core from the bedrock as evidence by the single seismic signature recorded at the Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York, 21 miles north of the WTC.

Notice how tiny the aircraft impact is compared to the 2.3 and 2.1 explosions prior to collapse.
Question 2
This is easy. They had many drills prior to the attacks (many witnesses to this)which meant that the towers would be evacuated. There could also have been Thermate actually on the aircraft.
Question 3
By the bomb squads during the drills.
Question 4
Not very long, hence the emerging story that WTC7 had long term explosive devices fitted because it contained the CIA, NSA etc is complete nonsense.
HeadSpin - September 15, 2007 11:00 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 15 2007, 04:06 AM) |
Question 4 Not very long, hence the emerging story that WTC7 had long term explosive devices fitted because it contained the CIA, NSA etc is complete nonsense. |
don't know if i understand you correctly, so can you elaborate.
if we are talking only about thermite, since the exact derivative form of thermite used is unknown, its chemical stability is unknown, although it would make sense to use a derivative with high stabilty as a property, if that was required.
if we're talking about how it could degrade or prematurely ignite in a building fire:
thermite ignition temperature would not be reached in an ordinary building fire, it is very difficult to ignite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite#Ignition"Ignition temperature 1,200°C, flame temperature 2,500 °C. Yellowish flame, squirts molten iron and slag"
http://users.tkk.fi/~andres/m44/m44bombs.htmbuilding fires do not reach ignition temperature of thermite.
Remian - September 15, 2007 12:39 PM (GMT)
Thank you very much! These answers may be all I need, but any other further clarification would be appreciated.
Slamin - September 15, 2007 01:55 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 14 2007, 11:06 PM) |
| QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 14 2007, 09:30 PM) | | QUOTE (Remian @ Sep 14 2007, 07:13 PM) | I have a few questions to further understand the proposed truth of the collapse of the World Trade Center.
It is somewhat obvious that explosives brought down WTC's 1, 2, and 7. Specifically dealing with 1 and 2, I have 2 questions:
1.) Whats the Quantity of thermite (thermate) required to bring down a WTC building
2.) How they where brought into the WTCs.
3.) How was it transported to the WTCs
4.) How stable where they as explosives (how long can they stay explosive without a catalyst or breaking down, becoming inefficient, etc.)
I know the answer to number 2, but I need them compiled for me for easy access, and the rest are for you. Thank you for your time. |
Obvious in what way?
Do you parents approve of this?
:rolleyes:
|
Actually some good questions on the skeptics forum for a change. Question 1 Actually it is impossible to answer this. We were denied access to the crime scene and they spirited away most (but not all) of the evidence and so we have to make a guess. However my guess (and this is personal and not necessarily the definitive answer) is that the Thermate (correctly identified by Prof Jones and now undeniable that traces were found in the twin towers and WTC7) was probably only used on the upper sections of the tower in order to ensure a symetrical collapse. A much larger charge was used to take away the centre core from the bedrock as evidence by the single seismic signature recorded at the Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York, 21 miles north of the WTC.  Notice how tiny the aircraft impact is compared to the 2.3 and 2.1 explosions prior to collapse. Question 2 This is easy. They had many drills prior to the attacks (many witnesses to this)which meant that the towers would be evacuated. There could also have been Thermate actually on the aircraft. Question 3 By the bomb squads during the drills. Question 4 Not very long, hence the emerging story that WTC7 had long term explosive devices fitted because it contained the CIA, NSA etc is complete nonsense. |
1) Who are "we" and why would or should "we" have access to a crime scene?
2) How could thermite on the airplane have anything to do with a controlled demolition?
3) Now the NY PD bomb squad is also in on the conspiracy? Funny how they had no friends on the police force or in the fire departments, for if they did, do you think they would help to kill their friends?
4) Now WTC 7 was built with the bombs in place?
OK, challenge, produce evidence to support any of these assertions.
Evidence.
Physical tangible evidence, not innuendo and false statements. I would like evidence.
jakeb - September 15, 2007 02:37 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (HeadSpin @ Sep 15 2007, 11:00 AM) |
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 15 2007, 04:06 AM) | Question 4 Not very long, hence the emerging story that WTC7 had long term explosive devices fitted because it contained the CIA, NSA etc is complete nonsense. |
don't know if i understand you correctly, so can you elaborate. if we are talking only about thermite, since the exact derivative form of thermite used is unknown, its chemical stability is unknown, although it would make sense to use a derivative with high stabilty as a property, if that was required. if we're talking about how it could degrade or prematurely ignite in a building fire: thermite ignition temperature would not be reached in an ordinary building fire, it is very difficult to ignite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite#Ignition"Ignition temperature 1,200°C, flame temperature 2,500 °C. Yellowish flame, squirts molten iron and slag" http://users.tkk.fi/~andres/m44/m44bombs.htmbuilding fires do not reach ignition temperature of thermite. |
But explosives would go off once their ignitors reach 350C.
| QUOTE (roscoe) |
| We were denied access to the crime scene and they spirited away most (but not all) of the evidence |
Roscoe, on what do you base that claim?
HeadSpin - September 15, 2007 06:31 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (jakeb @ Sep 15 2007, 02:37 PM) |
| But explosives would go off once their ignitors reach 350C. |
do you know what "igniters" were used?
can you show this is an impossible problem for the perpetrators to have solved?
jakeb - September 16, 2007 12:51 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (HeadSpin @ Sep 15 2007, 06:31 PM) |
| QUOTE (jakeb @ Sep 15 2007, 02:37 PM) | | But explosives would go off once their ignitors reach 350C. |
do you know what "igniters" were used? can you show this is an impossible problem for the perpetrators to have solved?
|
Nope, I just know that ignitors are not fireproof, and the info I've seen from explosive experts says that "the ignitors would have gone off once the temperature reached 350 C"
roscoe - September 16, 2007 05:37 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 15 2007, 08:55 AM) |
1) Who are "we" and why would or should "we" have access to a crime scene?
2) How could thermite on the airplane have anything to do with a controlled demolition?
3) Now the NY PD bomb squad is also in on the conspiracy? Funny how they had no friends on the police force or in the fire departments, for if they did, do you think they would help to kill their friends?
4) Now WTC 7 was built with the bombs in place?
|
We are people who demand an independent enquiry and are not persons appointed by the very people who did the crime in the first place. The fact that originally they were going to appoint Henry Kissinger to chair the enquiry until the protests became too much speaks volumes. But what we ended up with was a collection of Oil barons and sycophants.
The whole crime scene was administered by FEMA who is an emergency organistion and who had no jurisdiction once the immediate emergency was over.
2) It would cause the upper floors to collapse and this would be for visual effect rather than any controlled demolition then the rest would be blown by planted demolition charges plus a very large device that took the central column away from the bedrock.
3) No it was the security firm owned by Marvin Bush that did these exercises.
4) It isn't me that's saying that, this is the latest myth the denialists are coming up with to try to desperately explain the quite obvious controlled demolition of building 7.
| QUOTE |
OK, challenge, produce evidence to support any of these assertions.
Evidence.
Physical tangible evidence, not innuendo and false statements. I would like evidence. |
Gladly we'll do this on the new enquiry as there's enough doubt here to warrant holding another enquiry. You have a problem with this?
Now YOU produce evidence that Arabs terrorists were on those planes.
Fuzzy pictures, impossible cell phone calls and documents of dubious origin does not answer this question.
The planes have never been positively identified certainly to the degree that warrants the invasion of two sovereign nations and the deaths of now 1 million people.
jakeb - September 16, 2007 05:58 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 16 2007, 05:37 AM) |
We are people who demand an independent enquiry and are not persons appointed by the very people who did the crime in the first place. The fact that originally they were going to appoint Henry Kissinger to chair the enquiry until the protests became too much speaks volumes. But what we ended up with was a collection of Oil barons and sycophants.
|
Roscoe, who are you demanding pe a part of this "independent enquiry"?
And who would be financing it?
I created a thread for you to answer this, as requested
roscoe - September 16, 2007 06:33 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (jakeb @ Sep 16 2007, 12:58 AM) |
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 16 2007, 05:37 AM) | We are people who demand an independent enquiry and are not persons appointed by the very people who did the crime in the first place. The fact that originally they were going to appoint Henry Kissinger to chair the enquiry until the protests became too much speaks volumes. But what we ended up with was a collection of Oil barons and sycophants.
|
Roscoe, who are you demanding pe a part of this "independent enquiry"? And who would be financing it? I created a thread for you to answer this, as requested |
Full of questions aren't you gungadin? No answers just questions.
Who do I want to be part of tthe independent enquiry?
I guess people without a vested interest. i.e. independent
And as we've spent 3 trillion on the war that doesn't have any warrant perhaps your second question is a little stupid.
HeadSpin - September 16, 2007 11:53 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (jakeb @ Sep 16 2007, 12:51 AM) |
| QUOTE (HeadSpin @ Sep 15 2007, 06:31 PM) | | QUOTE (jakeb @ Sep 15 2007, 02:37 PM) | | But explosives would go off once their ignitors reach 350C. |
do you know what "igniters" were used? can you show this is an impossible problem for the perpetrators to have solved?
|
Nope, I just know that ignitors are not fireproof, and the info I've seen from explosive experts says that "the ignitors would have gone off once the temperature reached 350 C"
|
the answer you got would have depended on the question you asked.
how does a thermite grenade ignite?
it uses a M201A1
internal fuse, which initiates mechanically via a spring loaded mechanism.
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantr...enade/hand.htmlone would only have to house the ignitor in a insulated surrounding to prevent fire/heat destruction or premature ignition. This would appear to be a very easy problem to solve if the requirement was to detonate steel melting alumino-thermic bombs/incendaries in a chaotic fire environment.
its not nitro-glycerine.
mw2007 - September 16, 2007 01:53 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 16 2007, 12:37 AM) |
2) It would cause the upper floors to collapse and this would be for visual effect rather than any controlled demolition then the rest would be blown by planted demolition charges plus a very large device that took the central column away from the bedrock.
|
I don't know much about explosives, however I am curious to know how much it would take to bring down a building of this size using "planted demolition charges plus a very large device that took the central column away from the bedrock".
Obviously I'm not expecting a precise number, but are we talking about tonnes of the stuff? dozens of tonnes?
Slamin - September 16, 2007 03:43 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 16 2007, 12:37 AM) |
| QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 15 2007, 08:55 AM) | 1) Who are "we" and why would or should "we" have access to a crime scene?
2) How could thermite on the airplane have anything to do with a controlled demolition?
3) Now the NY PD bomb squad is also in on the conspiracy? Funny how they had no friends on the police force or in the fire departments, for if they did, do you think they would help to kill their friends?
4) Now WTC 7 was built with the bombs in place?
|
We are people who demand an independent enquiry and are not persons appointed by the very people who did the crime in the first place. The fact that originally they were going to appoint Henry Kissinger to chair the enquiry until the protests became too much speaks volumes. But what we ended up with was a collection of Oil barons and sycophants.
The whole crime scene was administered by FEMA who is an emergency organistion and who had no jurisdiction once the immediate emergency was over.
2) It would cause the upper floors to collapse and this would be for visual effect rather than any controlled demolition then the rest would be blown by planted demolition charges plus a very large device that took the central column away from the bedrock.
3) No it was the security firm owned by Marvin Bush that did these exercises.
4) It isn't me that's saying that, this is the latest myth the denialists are coming up with to try to desperately explain the quite obvious controlled demolition of building 7.
| QUOTE | OK, challenge, produce evidence to support any of these assertions.
Evidence.
Physical tangible evidence, not innuendo and false statements. I would like evidence. |
Gladly we'll do this on the new enquiry as there's enough doubt here to warrant holding another enquiry. You have a problem with this?
Now YOU produce evidence that Arabs terrorists were on those planes.
Fuzzy pictures, impossible cell phone calls and documents of dubious origin does not answer this question.
The planes have never been positively identified certainly to the degree that warrants the invasion of two sovereign nations and the deaths of now 1 million people.
|
1) Ordinary people do not have access to crime scenes.
2) Since this did not happen, why argue the theory? Kinda stupid since you have nothing to support what did happen.
3) The security firm for which Marvin Board was a member of the board (not the owner which is either stupidty or a lie by you) was not the firm that conducted those tests. His firm was gone for over a year by the time of the attacks.
4) This is a truther myth - and its full of shit.
intheflightlevels - September 16, 2007 07:31 PM (GMT)
I live in Las Vegas and have seen many implosions here. It is the implosion capital of the world. It takes days to gut the buildings and plant the explosives. The WTC was NOT a controlled demolition nor was WTC7. There is no possible way on earth to "secretly" plant that many explosives into 2 of the largest buildings on earth. The evidence to argue is non-existent and just plain ridiculous and it insults my intelligence when I hear it. We all saw what happened on 9/11 and the final result.
HeadSpin - September 17, 2007 12:11 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (intheflightlevels @ Sep 16 2007, 07:31 PM) |
| I live in Las Vegas and have seen many implosions here. It is the implosion capital of the world. It takes days to gut the buildings and plant the explosives. The WTC was NOT a controlled demolition nor was WTC7. There is no possible way on earth to "secretly" plant that many explosives into 2 of the largest buildings on earth. The evidence to argue is non-existent and just plain ridiculous and it insults my intelligence when I hear it. We all saw what happened on 9/11 and the final result. |
they removed all the stickers and labels that said "explosives" beforehand
roscoe - September 17, 2007 04:51 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 16 2007, 10:43 AM) |
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 16 2007, 12:37 AM) | | QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 15 2007, 08:55 AM) | 1) Who are "we" and why would or should "we" have access to a crime scene?
2) How could thermite on the airplane have anything to do with a controlled demolition?
3) Now the NY PD bomb squad is also in on the conspiracy? Funny how they had no friends on the police force or in the fire departments, for if they did, do you think they would help to kill their friends?
4) Now WTC 7 was built with the bombs in place?
|
We are people who demand an independent enquiry and are not persons appointed by the very people who did the crime in the first place. The fact that originally they were going to appoint Henry Kissinger to chair the enquiry until the protests became too much speaks volumes. But what we ended up with was a collection of Oil barons and sycophants.
The whole crime scene was administered by FEMA who is an emergency organistion and who had no jurisdiction once the immediate emergency was over.
2) It would cause the upper floors to collapse and this would be for visual effect rather than any controlled demolition then the rest would be blown by planted demolition charges plus a very large device that took the central column away from the bedrock.
3) No it was the security firm owned by Marvin Bush that did these exercises.
4) It isn't me that's saying that, this is the latest myth the denialists are coming up with to try to desperately explain the quite obvious controlled demolition of building 7.
| QUOTE | OK, challenge, produce evidence to support any of these assertions.
Evidence.
Physical tangible evidence, not innuendo and false statements. I would like evidence. |
Gladly we'll do this on the new enquiry as there's enough doubt here to warrant holding another enquiry. You have a problem with this?
Now YOU produce evidence that Arabs terrorists were on those planes.
Fuzzy pictures, impossible cell phone calls and documents of dubious origin does not answer this question.
The planes have never been positively identified certainly to the degree that warrants the invasion of two sovereign nations and the deaths of now 1 million people.
|
1) Ordinary people do not have access to crime scenes.
2) Since this did not happen, why argue the theory? Kinda stupid since you have nothing to support what did happen.
3) The security firm for which Marvin Board was a member of the board (not the owner which is either stupidty or a lie by you) was not the firm that conducted those tests. His firm was gone for over a year by the time of the attacks.
4) This is a truther myth - and its full of shit.
|
I just lurve the way you sidestepped the awkward bit about the identity of the planes.
Hey lets have an enquiry then all your questions will be answered.
Got a problem with this have you?
jakeb - September 17, 2007 02:19 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 17 2007, 04:51 AM) |
| QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 16 2007, 10:43 AM) | | QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 16 2007, 12:37 AM) | | QUOTE (Slamin @ Sep 15 2007, 08:55 AM) | 1) Who are "we" and why would or should "we" have access to a crime scene?
2) How could thermite on the airplane have anything to do with a controlled demolition?
3) Now the NY PD bomb squad is also in on the conspiracy? Funny how they had no friends on the police force or in the fire departments, for if they did, do you think they would help to kill their friends?
4) Now WTC 7 was built with the bombs in place?
|
We are people who demand an independent enquiry and are not persons appointed by the very people who did the crime in the first place. The fact that originally they were going to appoint Henry Kissinger to chair the enquiry until the protests became too much speaks volumes. But what we ended up with was a collection of Oil barons and sycophants.
The whole crime scene was administered by FEMA who is an emergency organistion and who had no jurisdiction once the immediate emergency was over.
2) It would cause the upper floors to collapse and this would be for visual effect rather than any controlled demolition then the rest would be blown by planted demolition charges plus a very large device that took the central column away from the bedrock.
3) No it was the security firm owned by Marvin Bush that did these exercises.
4) It isn't me that's saying that, this is the latest myth the denialists are coming up with to try to desperately explain the quite obvious controlled demolition of building 7.
| QUOTE | OK, challenge, produce evidence to support any of these assertions.
Evidence.
Physical tangible evidence, not innuendo and false statements. I would like evidence. |
Gladly we'll do this on the new enquiry as there's enough doubt here to warrant holding another enquiry. You have a problem with this?
Now YOU produce evidence that Arabs terrorists were on those planes.
Fuzzy pictures, impossible cell phone calls and documents of dubious origin does not answer this question.
The planes have never been positively identified certainly to the degree that warrants the invasion of two sovereign nations and the deaths of now 1 million people.
|
1) Ordinary people do not have access to crime scenes.
2) Since this did not happen, why argue the theory? Kinda stupid since you have nothing to support what did happen.
3) The security firm for which Marvin Board was a member of the board (not the owner which is either stupidty or a lie by you) was not the firm that conducted those tests. His firm was gone for over a year by the time of the attacks.
4) This is a truther myth - and its full of shit.
|
I just lurve the way you sidestepped the awkward bit about the identity of the planes.
Hey lets have an enquiry then all your questions will be answered.
Got a problem with this have you?
|
Regarding this "enquiry"
Who would conduct it?
Who would pay for it?
Remian - September 17, 2007 08:51 PM (GMT)
Just reminding you guys my questions still haven't been clearly answered. Upon inspection of the thread, I haven't gotten good answers, but I have found some clear views upon searching. However I am a little disappointed at the lack of clarity in the answers. I'm not losing hope though, I'm sure these questions can be answered. These are important questions that should be answered for the future of the Truth Movement. It surprises me that these questions aren't asked enough. Once a good answer is given, we can really show the government who's boss :D
Slamin - September 17, 2007 10:54 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (roscoe @ Sep 16 2007, 11:51 PM) |
I just lurve the way you sidestepped the awkward bit about the identity of the planes.
Hey lets have an enquiry then all your questions will be answered.
Got a problem with this have you? |
I love the way you fail to post anything of substance.
No answers to the tough questions, huh?