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Title: Diesel Generators


jafreaklsu - September 13, 2007 04:16 PM (GMT)
I havent seen this mentioned on here. Any thoughts?

Rossmancer - September 13, 2007 05:48 PM (GMT)
They've been mentioned. It's a part of the official story. It was mentioned in the movie Loose Change. That an internal fire cause from towers 1 and 2 ignited generators that cause wtc 7 to collapse. I personally do not believe that the generators caused the building to fail at free fall speeds.

DoYouEverWonder - September 13, 2007 06:25 PM (GMT)
There were a number of generators located on the 5th floor, in addition to a number of storage tanks and day tanks located in various places and a presurized fuel system, to deliver the fuel where ever it was need, which was also located on the 5th floor.

Jerome Hauer in his infinite wisdom, decided to run these fuel lines directly under the trusses that held up the building over the ConEd Substation. Unfortunately, he decided that he didn't want to waste the money on installing a fire suppression system on this floor, even though the rest of WTC 7 was a sprinklered building.

I'm sure these systems and some of the fuel played a part in bringing down the building, but I seriously doubt if any of it was accidental.


honway - September 13, 2007 07:25 PM (GMT)
The diesel fuel tanks were underground below the loading dock and on the ground floor. No fires were reported in these locations. No fires were reported on floor 5 or below.


http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf


"Fires were reported on floors 6,7,8,10,11, and 19."

Please see table 5.2 in the FEMA Performance Study.

From the FEMA Performance Study:

"The tanks that provided fuel for the emergency generators were located in the building. The Silverstein and SSB fuel tanks were underground below the loading dock. The OEM tank was on the ground floor ...."

Dereck Breuning - September 13, 2007 08:20 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (honway @ Sep 13 2007, 07:25 PM)
The diesel fuel tanks were underground below the loading dock and on the ground floor. No fires were reported in these locations. No fires were reported on floor 5 or below.


http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf


"Fires were reported on floors 6,7,8,10,11, and 19."

Please see table 5.2 in the FEMA Performance Study.

From the FEMA Performance Study:

"The tanks that provided fuel for the emergency generators were located in the building. The Silverstein and SSB fuel tanks were underground below the loading dock. The OEM tank was on the ground floor ...."

Yeah, so the thought of those diesel thanks causing the collapse is OUT OF THE QUESTION.

Anyone who still CAN'T SEE that this was a CD is oblivious. Sorry.

JackD - September 13, 2007 09:45 PM (GMT)
experiment

coat 2" thick structural steel with diesel fuel.
deprive of sufficient oxygen. light match. step away. return and analyze.

what do we see?

JackD - September 13, 2007 09:47 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Sep 13 2007, 06:25 PM)
There were a number of generators located on the 5th floor, in addition to a number of storage tanks and day tanks located in various places and a presurized fuel system, to deliver the fuel where ever it was need, which was also located on the 5th floor.

Jerome Hauer in his infinite wisdom, decided to run these fuel lines directly under the trusses that held up the building over the ConEd Substation. Unfortunately, he decided that he didn't want to waste the money on installing a fire suppression system on this floor, even though the rest of WTC 7 was a sprinklered building.

I'm sure these systems and some of the fuel played a part in bringing down the building, but I seriously doubt if any of it was accidental.

do you have a source for the "jerome hauer decided to...."


chris sarns - September 15, 2007 10:24 AM (GMT)
There were NO diesel fuel fires in the east end of WTC 7 where the initiating event* took place.

* See NIST Apx. L pg 31 – 34 [35 – 38 on pg counter]
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf


FEMA pg 28
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

[emphasis mine]
"Fuel oil was distributed through the 5th floor in a double-wall iron pipe.
A portion of the piping was in close proximity to Truss 1.
However, there is no physical photographic or other evidence to substantiate or refute the discharge of fuel oil from the piping system.

The following is, therefore, a hypothesis based on potential rather than demonstrated fact.
Assume
that the distribution piping system was severed and discharged up to 75 gpm onto the 5th floor in the vicinity of Truss 1."

Pg 29
Although there is no physical evidence available, this hypothesis assumes that it is possible that both the inner and outer pipes were severed


Testimony of Dr. S. Shyam Sunder
Acting Director, Building and Fire Research Laboratory
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/testimony/TestimonySept8_06.pdf

Page 3 [on page counter]
"One possibility being considered in the NIST working hypothesis....impact......may have resulted in fractures
in the fuel piping system..........at the valve box would release fuel under pressure that, if ignited,......."
[pipes would have fractured at the south west generator room where the damage was, not the north east generator room at the other end of the building]

Pg 180 [11 on the pg counter]
"valve box......near generator #1"

Pg 181
"very near column #79"

i.e. in the generator room.

The east generator room was in the north east corner of WTC 7 on the 5th floor.
The supply pipe for the east generator room was north of the core area, 90 feet from the south side of the building.
All the other diesel tanks, pumps, risers, distribution pipes were in the west half of WTC 7
[FEMA pg 14 - 15]

If the generators were running, the louver vents would be open. [FEMA pg 29]
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9176/e5nk6.jpg

If there was a fire in this room, smoke would be pouring out through the exhaust vents.
If the generators were off, the louvers would be closed and a fire would have no supply of oxygen.

The whole thing about fuel oil [diesel] causing Truss 1 to fail is an ASSUMPTION based on nothing!




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