This needed to be reposted as the claim that a 757 hit the generator trailer has clearly been debunked.

This thread will demonstrate how the physical damage to the generator trailer does NOT match the official flight path or fit a 757.

Particularly in regards to the "groove" in the top of the generator that some researcher's have attributed to the flap track of the wing of a 757.

The official south side of the Citgo flight path requires the plane's right wing tilts up and the engine goes through the fence and generator trailer as the left wing tilts down and hits the ground.

Proponents of the official flight path claim that the damage to the trailer is proof that a 757 hit the Pentagon on the official flight path.

But there is very little to support this.

First of all the official story proponents claim that the trailer shows damage from a engine hitting it, when it is actually the thin shell of the trailer wall warping into an even bend from the heat of the diesel fuel fire:



They claim the fence shows foward moving damage. When it actually shows some strange inconsistencies. It shows the barbed wire hole just popped off, and while it shows one pole (yellow) bent down (which could have been fabricated since the "renovation" was drawing to a close) it shows a pole (red) uprooted, kinked in two places and blown AWAY from the trailer.



There are even poles on the other side that are still standing:



But the one thing that they have continued to point to is the groove in the top of the trailer as coming from the flap track of the right wing:



But generally they use poor representations such as the one above to illustrate how this would happen.

When taking a close look at the generator "groove", it holds the appearance of fabrication through the use of a welding torch, note the scorch marks and the uneven jagged cutting:



Does this photo reveal that the trailer already had the gouge or groove cut into it before 9/11?


Regardless of that the witnesses we spoke with adamantly state that the plane was on the north side of the Citgo. This would directly contradict direction and damage to the generator trailer, which require the plane to be on the south side of the Citgo.







One specifically stated that the plane pulled up over the highway sign on the way to the Pentagon.




And beyond that Undertow did a scale model of what it should look like with the plane hitting the building...THE FLAP TRACK STILL CANNOT REACH THE GENERATOR TRAILER TO CAUSE THE "GROOVE":





http://www.aa77fdr.com/misc/PSTB1.avi

To top it off, the numbers and trends based on RAW DATA from the FDR which tries to show the south side flight path illustrates that not only can the flap track NOT reach, BUT NEITHER CAN THE ENGINE:


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=37...142560520&hl=en

So in closing, it is clear there is very little evidence to NO EVIDENCE to support that a 757 right engine caused the damage to the generator trailer.

I'll eventually detail this out but you can start.

Please explain:

1) What caused the fence damage?
2) What type of directional explosive was used to propel the generator forward and towards the building without blowing debris and the fence itself back onto the lawn?

We'll keep it simple for that part.

Now - you are willing to claim a real human being climbed on top of the generator with a torch and cut it?

Why did they.....

1) Cut it in the first place?
2) Cut it so that it was "impossible" for a plane to have done it?
3) Make it so easy for guys with a computer to debunk it and expose the operation?

Was the flap track important in the first place? It was discovered by 9/11 researchers and never used to "prove" the official story.

It was only detected in a couple of aerial photos taken on the 13th and/or 14th. It was barely visible from the ground.

The mental eraser to get rid of physical evidence is a DESIRE to believe something and NOT based on research or physics.

1) Not a 757
2) I don't know.

Looks like we need a real investigation now, doesn't it Russ?

1) Why would I know? Maybe so one day someone could come along and say "See this proves that happened." Why do you ask questions you know can't be answered. Are you going to ask me where the passengers are next?

It is a possibility as to how the cut could have been made. It's also possible the cut was there well before 9/11 and individuals focusing on that as proof are just wasting the rest of the class's time.

I can easily invent a list of questions you can't answer for your theory.

2) Why would I know? This is why I want a new investigation Russ. I know what didn't happen.

Examples :

I don't know what knocked down the towers but I know it wasn't office fires and the planes didn't do it when they impacted so I rule them out as well.

I don't know why they waited to bring them down when they could have set the bombs off immediately following impact and blamed it all on the planes impact. Why didn't they do that Russ?

Can you tell me why they tried to blow the basements out at impact and after that failed why didn't they just initiate the sequence?

If they had control of the planes by remote why did they shoot one down in PA? Why didn't they just crash it into something like Sommerset school or a residential area? How come after they murdered 3000 people at Ground Zero they decided to spare others?

3) There you go with your snide comments again. Wonder how a comment like that makes Dylan feel. I mean after all him and Jason are "guys with a computer" that debunked the government's fairy tale. Or haven't they Russ?

Is it only experts with the right qualifications that can debunk the gov Russ? How about Pilots for Truth? They have all the right qualifications to debunk what they have debunked yet I don't see you championing their work around.

So now guys like CIT & LTW can't expose the Gov because they're just guys with a computer.

And the PFT can't debunk the government either, you don't know why exactly because you're not qualified to speak about their work negatively but you just got a gut feeling that Rob guy has motives other than the truth.

Yeah Russ we're all partying it up living in fat houses, driving fat cars, spending money faster than it can come in, banging movie stars, this whole 9/11 Research stuff has really turned all our lives around for the better! :rolleyes:

If I said you were transparent I would still have to call that an understatement.

Also noted - You don't have any respect for me as a researcher so why do you even bother spending time on me?

Who's the bigger fool? The fool himself or the man who dedicates all his time to calling him a fool?

;)

D

I can't wait to see your work here Russel.

Please explain:

1) Who is responsible for 911?

So instead of even examining the study of the evidence, your will simple denounce them through questions.

What caused the fence Damage?
Whatever happened and whatever it was I also have a question about. You don't care though because Flight77 and the Pentagon is BEYOND QUESTION to you.

Don't pester us with your bullshit nanny embarrassments as if you are actually doing anything. Play to the 'crowd' and 'normal' people all you want. It does nothing in the end.

So, the Flap Track. Do you consider that it may not be that at all? Or is that beyond question. And if it is damage, caused by the Flap structure of a 757, can you prove it?

And yet, we can see it in most of the photos? Strange?

Stop your pestering Russel and try to prove a 757 can create the damage scene of the fence and generator. Dont' forget about the poles and building though. Not much Fudge room with the VDOT pole. Good Luck.

I DO have hope for you and admire your dedication - misguided as it is.

UT,

You're a smart guy, you just keep bad company.

Being sequestered by an arrogant know-it-all who has done nothing in and of himself to contribute to 9/11 research is NOT serving you well.

Like I said before, when you defect you can tell us all what it was like on the inside and contribute your talents to really finding out what happened.

Russell

:P

Why is Russel the only one who has to detail who's responsible for 9/11 when others in this thread can get away with vagueries like, "Not a 757" and "I don't know."??

:lol: :lol: :lol:


If I can prove what didn't happen why is it on my shoulders to prove what did?

So, according to your logic, let's say you're an investigator in the murder of a family of 4.

There are numerous theories as to who killed them. You prove one theory is wrong (miraculously using only eye-witnesses).

Is your job then done?

No but then I have uncensored access to all the evidence too, don't I?

That's what I would like to see. Then I'll tell you exactly what happened and exactly how it did.

Okay, the problem though, is that you do have access to the evidence in the case of the Pentagon.

You're just ignoring it. Or writing it off as "planted" or "staged" because it doesn't fit in your theory.

Really?

Where's the 911 calls at? Where can I listen to them?

How about the 85+ video camera's in the area that can clear up this argument about the flight path?

Please provide links to those.

You guys don't believe the calls from the flights are real, why would you believe the 911 calls were?

And if you can show me that those 85+ cameras were all trained on where the Pentagon got struck I'll meet you down in DC to protest their release.

You're telling me that only 1 camera, a GAS STATION camera, is the only camera that caught it on tape? The Pentagon, the best secured building in America . My god, open your eyes. If you go to a mall you are being filmed a dozen of times.
It's obvious that they are withholding something. They took all the tapes of cameras in the area and released one, which is very blurry, to make us believe a plane hit it.

Why are the 80+ security videos still confiscated by the FBI? Why are they still censored from the American public if they don't show us anything? Why are the Arlington County 9-11 call-in tapes and transcripts still confiscated by the FBI? Why are they still censored from the American public if they don't reflect what people saw around the Pentagon on that day? Give us some legitimate reasons, not another pile of BS trust me dogma. :D

Have YOU personally filed FOIA's for any of this data?

If not - WHY?

One thing I've noticed about the generator is that is was rusted up pretty bad, in comparison with the burned out cars by the impact zone. I've had this suspicion that something other than fire was to blame for all that rust. I suspect that it was coated with some type of explosive, with the top half coated thicker than the bottom. I figure maybe the same was done with the fence by the generator and the VDOT pole. The two poles in front of the generator probably pre-fabbed. Replaced during renovation. Plane parts already stashed in building. The downed poles were already on the ground, strategically placed so they would be hard to see from the road. That's why poles 4 and 5 are pointed (in the wrong direction) in toward the flight path. Light pole 1 they just completely screwed up. They should've left the cab out of it and just pointed the pole to the right of the flight path. Lloyd's windshield wouldn't be that hard to do, if they used a breakaway windshield. And yes, there are companies that make breakaway windshields for movies. You'll notice that Lloyd's cab was pointed away from the traffic on 27 North. The building damage lines up right because they had a lot of time to measure it out during renovation. You've already conceded that they could've used a wall-breaching kit for the exit hole.

Tomorrow, I'll have a question for you.

The flap causing that groove is too coincidental for my taste.

Check out an aerial view of that gash. Notice how it seems to have been burned in?



Now, check out the other side of the generator. The side that was facing the building, and would have been facing away from any incoming plane.



Notice how the other side is blown out?