So everyone knows the official/NIST theory...I'd like some of the people here who believe in CD/alternate theories/etc to post a synopsis of how they believe the events of 9/11 unfolded and how these alternate theories fit together.

You might as well close this thread now. There's a rule - don't spell out the 911 conspiracy, because the more pieces you slap together, the more ridiculous it sounds.

Stay tuned for "we're just asking questions" evasions.

No one? No one at all has an alternate theory/timeline to present?

so you want a single person to outline all the events of that day when dealing with probabilities, plausabilities, opinions, unknowns etc. no-one is going to have a complete solution without a new independent investigation.

if you want something simple:

planes were remote controlled into 2 skyscrapers and the pentagon

3 wtc skyscrapers were blown up

flight 93 was shot down

elements of US government/US invisible government/military/US intelligence/Israeli intelligence/big-corporate-business did it.

patsies and evidence were setup and planted to create a false trail

the american public thus backed an agenda to conquer parts of the world not compliant with western corporate and banking interests in order to prevent the american empire from collapsing.

give them chance, its september 10th, they're all out there with their signs and black T shirts :)

So you're telling me we won't have a complete solution without a new investigation...fair enough...then how is it that your mind is already made up?

What makes you believe they were remotely controlled and not just piloted?

Explode != Implode
Is this based on the opinion of CD experts, or your own opinion?

Why wasn't it just remotely controlled like the others?

What corporations did it?

What evidence do you base this claim on?

Interesting.

above is a quote by you from the Meow thread.

...now after a dozen posts by you demanding from me a brief synopsis of my theory in order that you can just compare theories, you now predicatbly demand an examination of the minutiae which will result in endless debate (already with one post the tree has split into 6 different branches), demanding evidence and then ignoring it when it is presented, ending with interpretations of the meaning of a specific word, whether it is steel or not steel, whether it is molten or not molten etc. believe me i've played this game and its not worth my time. theres plenty of information and books out there i don't need to repeat it.

if you can explain to me the following which fits the official government conspiracy theory.

FEMA appendix C
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf

the molten iron micro-spheres found in the wtc dust showing thermate type signatures
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/...11SciMethod.pdf

the anthrax attacks on leading democrats resisting the Patriot Act, and corporate media buildings (ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, New York Post, National Enquirer, Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

if you can do this, i might consider moving from a MIHOP position to LIHOP position.

if you can then explain to me the actions and events surrounding Bush, Rumsfeld, Myers, Cheney, Silverstein, Bin Laden, Jerome Hauer, Dov Zakheim, Larry Arnold and a few others on 911 and the preceding day(s) that fit with the OCT

explain the 20-some drills that were taking place including hijacked airplanes hitting buildings scenarios taking place on 911

the insider-trading put options on airlines and financial instiutions placed by "an instituitional investor"

then i might consider moving from a LIHOP to OCT position.

"oh god, if she loves me...show me a sign...any sign at all.... <huge rumbling earthquake>....please god, any sign at all"
Ben Stiller in Something about Mary (i think)

MIHOP = made it happen on purpose
LIHOP = let it happen on purpose
OCT = official conspiracy theory

Read the OP...this thread is about your theory, not the OT, and it doesn't require extensive data-mining.

You know how you arrived at your current theory, that's all you need to present. I'm not asking you to convince me...I'm asking you to show what evidence convinced YOU.

Thank you for that. It is an interesting theory.

Here is why I disagree:

The planes hit at different elevations in the buildings. If one is able to pilot a plane some 400 plus miles or so, one could hit the buildings wherever they wished. The hits would have been much lower on the bodies of the building, thus increasing the likelihood of deaths.

I do not know which three buildings in the complex you are referring to. In any case I cannot agree. The mechanics of blowing up a building is far more complicated than you apparently comprehend.

The cockpit recordings contradict this claim.
The "shoot down" seems to be inconsistent with the rest of the description.

Yet you have not one specific person or company whom you can charge with this monumental crime. And this is out of six entities you clam "did it."

Again, this claim is particularly unfathomable simply due to the numbers of actors involved.

This much I can believe. However, there is frighteningly little evidence when you consider what the 9/|| Commission went on to connect the dots they connected.

This is where you really lose me and probably the public at large. The clam of this alturisim is emperically silly. The corporate and banking interests are "in on it" too? Hardly.

And finally, when you want the American Public to be behind you, you act pretty much the exact opposite way George Bush acted, the way Dick Cheney acted, the way Donald Rumsfeld acted, the way that George Tenet acted, the way that Paul Wolfowitz acted, the way that Dick Armitage acted, the very strange way that Colin Powell acted, and the way Condelezza Rice (sp?) attempted to act. While you may say that official Washington was not at the root of this cast of thousands conspiracy you have created, but at some point some of these men and women would have been involved. Which would fly in the face of their collective conduct.

All in all it is an interesting theory. I disagree in general. However what you stated could have happened with the exception of the conspiracy "dream team" you've installed .

The Cockpit Voice Recorder is probably the smallest piece of evidence against the shot-down idea. Much more significant are:

* the Flight Data Recorder, which showed all airplane functions to be normal up until the instant of impact, and

* the fact that airplane debris was located only very near the impact point. Only a few charred papers were found farther away, and those were carried up in the fireball and drifted downwind.

if 911 was an inside job, why do you think it would have been necessary to maximise the casualties?

the official conspiracy theory would have you believe that bin laden wanted to maximise the casualties, so why did the first plane hit high up and the second hit lower down. The OCT has Hani Hanjour hand-pilotting a plane into the ground floor of the pentagon without scraping the grass.

equally if you beleive the OCT why did "foreign terrorists" hit the only side of the pentagon which had been largely empty due to reinforcement renovations. the contract was completed on september 11th 2001 with just a small number of construction workers on site and most pentagon employess not yet reoccupying their offices. The company that had this reinforcement contract was AMEC.

Interestingly:
AMEC did the pentagon renovation for $150,000,000 (work completed september 11th 2001)

AMEC was also awarded a no-bid $200,000,000 contract to rebuild the pentagon after 911

Jan 2004 AMEC was awarded a no-bid $500,000,000 contract to rebuild iraq's
power grid

March 2004 AMEC was awarded a no-bid £1,000,000,000 contract to rebuild
iraqs water and sewage infrastructure

AMEC were one of 4 companies that had the contract to clear the WTC rubble

AMEC has done work with Kingstar a demolition/explosive company, a Kingstar van was located next to the bus blown up in london on 7/7

Anthony Fatayi-Williams was an executive with AMEC, he was killed on the bus that was blown up next to that kingstar van.

wtc7 was the third skyscraper destroyed on 911, there is a whole section on it on this board
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...hp?showforum=14

you have no way of knowing what i comprehend about blowing up/demolition/destruction of buildings. since you put yourself forward as an expert on the matter, please explain the findings in FEMAs appendix C
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf

you have no way of knowing that the released tapes are complete.

seismic data indicate a ground impact at 10:06, the OCT has the plane impact at 10:03, a lot can happen on a plane in 3 minutes.

some of the families who privately heard the cockpit recording before it was publicly released have reported differences at the end of the tapes, implying there is a missing section at the end of the publicly released tape.

this is highly inaccurate

you need to read this thread before making such claims.
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=14380

I read that thread, but I didn't see anything that would indicate any debris heavier than charred paper made it any distance from the impact site.

Was there a particular post you were thinking of?

Hey heard this one.

these 19 emaciated Arabs (one of then 5ft 3in) broke into four airliner cockpits and theatened a six ft six pilot with a box cutter ands whilst cleverly avoiding getting beaten to death with luggage he persuaded them to fly into some buildings.

Meanwhile the Air National guard go to sleep and allow these Cessna trained puddlejumpers to fly around the Mid west United States for hours totally unmolested. You do wonder why they had planned to fly so far out, I mean they didn't seem to have a lot of hurry-up factored into their plan.

They then manage navigate back flying at 500mph for the first time in their flying careers and manage to hit their targets not only without the need for a dummy run but one of them even had the presence of mind to throe his passport out of the window before impact. Now that's cool.

Then we have a strange phenomena, for only buildings owned by Larry Silverstein collapse all the rest, though damaged, still remain standing.

We then find out that some Arabs left korans and flight manuals in a car at airport they didn't fly from but apparantly had the presence of mind to take their passports with them. Perhaps they needed them to get into paradise I mean the security up there is terrible.

Next thing we find the US attacking a country that didn't supply any of the hijackers from a country that supplied most of the hijackers.


And there you have it.


Yeh you're right, what dickhead is going to believe that CONSPIRACY THEORY?

Hmm...why don't you tell us your theory, roscoe, and we'll see if it sounds any less ridiculous.

I don't have a theory I want an investigation. You have a problem with this?

There has been an investigation, you have mischaracterised much of it. For example, which of the pilots on the day were not fully trained?

That depends:

Who will do the investigating?
Who will pay for the investigation?
If the investigation concludes that it was not an inside job, will you accept the results of said investigation?

Don't know we didn't find any of their bodies in the wreckage.

Lets take this to the other thread, there's significant proof the hijackers were onboard the planes and I am awaiting your rebuttal eagerly.

In the meantime....

For instance.

When one makes a sweeping statement like this one usually gives the evidence he/she is refering to. It hasn't gone unnoticed that you signally failed to do this.

So on yer Sonny evidence, that Arabs from Al Qaeda where actually on those planes here now front and center.

That can be addressed in another topic. I created THIS topic for people like you, rosco, to post your own theory. Go ahead, and like I said, we'll see if it sounds any less ridiculous than your personal interpretation of the OT.

Uh, http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...post&p=14580307

I posted it before I posted that, as it's worthless debating the same topic in two threads. Enjoy.

Yes but you answered a totally different question than the one I asked.

I asked for evidence if the planes that crashed into the buildings had any Arab hijackers onboard.

You then spewed out some cockamaimy story about manifests. Totally irrelevent old chum.

What evidence would you accept that the planes hitting the building were UA175 and AA11?

How about the black boxes.

Oh you didn't find them did you?

Well that's not actually true they were found just never presented as evidence.

Roscoe, for the 3rd time...where's that synopsis of your theory? Let's stay on topic here.

Bump.

Any takers? Just a one-post summary of your theory, please.

Back either in the early 1990's or late 1980's (I'll tie it to 9/11, don't worry), a newspaper article here in Houston did an expose on Oscar Wyatt. Oscar Wyatt, I believe, at the time was the head of a petroleum concern called Costal Corporation.

The newspaper article was motivated by a sexy hi-publicity probate settlement between the Wyatts and the Sakowitz family which was one of the pillars of the community here in Houston.

Anyway, a reporter followed Oscar around for a while and the article ended up with Oscar getting a phone call. The phone call was from some middle-eastern power broker; a government official with one of the kingdoms over there. I want to say it was Saudi Arabia but I'm not sure.

The converstion went something like this:

Oscar was arranging for the oil from the kingdom to be sold cheaper to him than to his competitors in the refining industry. The reporter observed that he was making foreign policy; an individual from the US dealing with a government official offshore. Oscar simply mused, "That is the way the world works today." That is, I believe, an exact quote so I used the marks.

If you look at the tragic events of 9/11, one cannot seriously deny two things:

It was good for the oil companies--most of them anyway
It was good for the military industrial complex

However, those who blame Fairchild, Boeing, Northrup-Grummand, Lockheed, etc... are missing the mark in my view. If you think they were involved, it is tantamount to beliving that Larry Silverstein was involved; that they would risk their good names, imprisionment, eternal damnation, the fate of their corporate livelihoods on either the fickle disbursement of government contracts or the fickle opinions of a jury/judgement. It is flat out silly. The upside doesn't begin to overshadow the downside--in the pre 9/11 context. Then you have a group like Custer Battles who was invented to simply cash in on the Bush Doctrine so maybe these guys have inside information about how the investigation was going to go or how SASC would award contracts. So who knows but it sounds far out to me that the 20+ members of the SASC would buy into this mass murder scenario.

Anyway, if you look a the oil companies though....the strife in the Middle East can only drive the prices up. Invading Iraq would hurt the flow of oil which would drive the prices up without seriously jeopardizing the supply from other oil producing states.

If you are looking for an alternative theory to the 9/|| Commission version of events, I could see an Oscar Wyatt type figure (we'll call him Condor) contacting Osama Bin Laden through back channels and several intermediaries--I'm talking about at least three or four--and bank rolling his motley group of half witted mass murderers. I'm certain that in every whacked out brain damaged fringe movement, you have those who are docile and prefer slow movement and then you have those who are active and just want to get out there and make a difference. Look at the "truther" community--you still have people on this board who don't feel that the buildings were burning significantly. Condor goes through his back channel and contacts person X who tells person Y and contacts Osama with a plan about whether he would like to hatch an operation and if he had some human assets who could do such things. Osama, being a good little terrorists, says yes. So a plan is put into place.

Osama cannot go on television and point out Condor to anybody since he doesn't know them---all he knows is that there were suitcases full of money. He gets what he wants--a black eye to America and "street cred" with other radical Islamic sects. Atta's bunch gets what they want, martyrdom and their names written into every history book for the next 1,000 years. The oil companies get what they want profit wise--$3.00 a gallon gasoline with no end in sight.

It is just a theory but it satisfies the first rule of conspiracies...keep the number small; as small as possible. I snicker when I read about any governmental involvement; they can't keep a secret to save their lives. I get mad when the Army is implicated especially since the Army HQ was attacked. That requires a special brand of moron to suggest that.

I think the 9/|| Commission got it right for the most part but I cannot discount that something else may have been at work on that day.