First I would like to say it is sad that Craig and Aldo by being the squeakiest wheels are getting control of the forums again as in the past.

I warned of this very strongly. Image and information control are important in marketing.

When I was an admin I never used the authority in any situation where I was engaged emotionally. IVXX can confirm that I asked him to monitor me AND suggested a return of Aldo and JDX out of fairness.

But every time either of them are here this is what happens.

The fact they want to control the forums again through manipulation and discrediting me is quite what I intended. They are whining to a degree that once again information is being monitored, closed and removed from the public eye which is what they need to continue the flyover propaganda.

Remember boys my goal is to push your buttons one at a time until you expose yourselves for what you really are.

You are doing a fine job - so please continue. It is important for all of the rational people who read this site to understand the psychology and emotional nature of the people behind the PentaCON.

Lots of careers won't even employ you until you have a psych test.

Now since it is my right to be able to respond to statements and accusations leveled against me and the other threads are closed, I will hop around and highlight the ones I feel are worthy to respond to.

Craig is VERY good at manipulation and is frankly a marketing genius.

The most important one is ANY even remote implication that I am biased against any race or religion.

My comments about the Jewish religion in my outburst were based on the fact that Lloyd had a David Icke book.

We also had been joking about reptilian aliens being responsible for 9/11 since trying to understand it is so confounding.

Icke in some of his teachings ties his beliefs about shape shifting reptilians to certain blood lines and cultures. My joke was simply a reference to his materials in relation to the fact that Lloyd had an Icke book on his seat.

It was very low of Craig to need to do that but when your ability to respond to logic and evidence degrades - this was his only option.

TRUST ME when I say if I were willing to stoop that low I would have plenty of material to share but would never even dream of it.

That is not my nature nor is it required to expose PentaCON for what it/they are.

Wow. Just, Wow.

That's more or less what i had suspected. Thanks for bringing it out in the open.

The next explanation for the 100th time is about my site.

I moved from Wyoming to Seattle due to family situations. I changed careers temporarily and have had a lot to deal with.

I also personally became very frustrated with the likes of PFT and CIT being successful at their using these forums to launch themselves on self-promoting projects. Like in politics the most compelled egos will drive themselves to the front.

I have done long and tedious quiet work on the Pentagon for years. I have never had any interest in self-promotion or profit.

Since the destruction of the old forums I have oscillated very strongly on not being involved in 9/11 any more. It is the likes of CIT and PFT and other self-promoting groups that discourage me.

The 9/11 movement is a haven for the non-rational hardcore conspiracy theorist. For that reason I believe the movement will eventually implode. Again it is the hardest of the hard cores that want to be on top and sell us their theories.

I took my whole site down and was done. I had objections from many people who were linked to it.

The number one person was David Ray Griffin who asked me to leave it up.

I chose a compromise and took down the front page for "new" people but left the backside up for people linked.

Confirm this with David if you wish. My site is disclaimered.

Even in its current state it is fine. The fact is if I were to update it they would complain heavily because it would go into the more detailed evidence for a plane hitting the Pentagon. It would also have a full expose on PentaCON.

It will remain as it is. I will not be controlled by Craig and Aldo's whining.

Time will tell on these guys. A plane hit the Pentagon.

A 757 DID NOT PERFORM WILD LOW ALTITUDE MANUEVERS IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AFTER N.Y. AND ESCAPE THE NOTICE OF THE ENTIRE D.C. POULATION WHILE FLYING THROUGH A MASSIVE FIREBALL AT THE ROOF LINE OF THE PENTAGON.

Fiction based on people who very carefully acquired sound bites and edited them to have a roadshow and take their research to a new level.

Perhaps you should re-read it.

I specifically stated that I do NOT think you are anti-semitic and announced that I removed that part from the footage because I am quite sure it was a joke since it was a recurring joke throughout the trip because LTW is sometimes under fire for not exposing the "zionists".

Why are you misrepresenting what I said?

Not the entire DC population. "Barbara" noticed it, she was the first person being interviewed for the TV. She was on 395 near the Potomac.

"On the left-hand side, there was a commercial plane coming in, and was coming in too fast and the too low, and the next thing we saw was it go down below the side of the road, and we just saw the fire that came up after that."

"It was coming on less than a 45 degree angle, and coming down towards the side of the -- of 395. And when it came down, it just missed 395 and went down below us, and then you saw the boom -- the fire come up from it."

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/witnesses/index.html

And Barbara is "not exactly sure" if this plane hit the Pentagon...

"Yes, and I'm not sure exactly where the Pentagon, where it was in relationship to where the plane went down but they are relatively close to one another. ... whether it hit any part of that pentagon, I'm not sure."

Exactly Woody.

Russell is taking the claim out of context of the facts again to erroneously cast doubt based on emotion.

The WTC isn't right next door to an international airport that has flights flying over it every 3 minutes 24 hours a day.

The flyover maneuver would be just like normal air traffic departing out of Reagan over the Potomac so there would only be a millisecond where it would be seen right next to the fireball and considered odd.

These witnesses would be easily handled with the 2nd plane cover story and the fact that all the 911 calls were confiscated.

Now we will recapitulate the Lloyd story again and my immediate reaction to the D.C. experience.

I was VERY frustrated.

Nothing about the Pentagon is simple or straightforward.

Lloyd had told me a very different story on the phone from what he said in D.C.

I do not lie in my personal life (except for how much I lost at the casino on Saturday) and I certainly would not lie in any way related to 9/11.

Craig and Aldo subtly wish to paint a picture of me that in its ultimate conclusion goes like this:

'Russel Pickering believes a plane flew over the Pentagon but for personal reasons wants to deny it and attack Craig and Aldo and mislead the world about what happened at the Pentagon.'

To quote Craig........."LUDICROUS"!!!!!!!

IF I was convinced of a flyover I would be very HAPPY to have the truth and would actually do something about it rather than sitting on forums 24/7 whining about being picked on.

Lloyd very simply has a horrible memory. Like ALL other witnesses including Lagasse's story about being blown into his car Lloyd has embellished his own story.

In our interview Lloyd even forgot which direction he was heading. He argued with Aldo firmly stating he was not on a bridge/overpass. He said I can't remember I don't know how many times.

Lloyd offered to drive me 90 miles to the cab and inspect it and I was too nervous to drive with him. I believe he is honest but extremely confused at times and driving with him seemed dangerous because of his age and tendency to be confused.

To accuse him of being a deep cover plant involved in murder is INSANE! Then to run around the Internet and brag that "I've looked the devil in the eyes" is again indicative of the nature of the mentality involved here.

Very simply put.........

Lloyd was hit by a smaller piece of pole number TWO. He came to a stop in front of the base of pole number one already on the ground. He and/or somebody removed the smaller piece of pole TWO from his window and laid it near the passenger rear quarter panel. Then he may have tried to move the large base of pole one laying in front of him resulting in the scratch on the asphalt there. He wanted to leave but could not start his car because the fuel cutoff switch triggered from the impact of the smaller piece of pole TWO impacting the back seat.

He has confused, combined and embellished the different elements of the events.

YES I was frustrated by confusing factors in DC with Lloyd. He recanted what he had said to me before. The FBI association via his wife and the police motorcycle club belt buckle DID give me consideration. NO PROBLEM.

I have changed many positions many times over and will again. I fairly consider everything over time. I have strong initial emotional reactions and process the experience sometimes for months before concluding anything.

The fact that personal, PRIVATE experiences of mine from a group of people on a research trip have now been manipulated by Craig to convince you of PentaCON speaks highly of the lack of integrity involved here.

Why do Craig and Aldo NEED to attack me and Lloyd's story BUT yet are very willing to embrace the numerous contradictions and embellishments of Lagasse and the FACT it is on film Lagasse didn't even remember where he was parked????????

It is WHAT they wanted to believe then and now HAVE to believe to continue promoting the second version of PentaCON.

This is NOT research and Karma will some day be harsh.

Just watch this even if it takes years and it will be clear.

Woody,

As I have said before - you are free to blindly support these guys.

A PLANE DID NOT FLY OVER THE PENTAGON.

What an eyewitness says they saw IS NOT what actually happened.

If you want to support:

1) They faked a mechanical damage path of tons of metal, trees, trailers and brick(then flew the plane way off course).
2) Every impact witness (including Lagasse) is wrong or a planted murderer.
3) That every shred of video is faked and that they removed Robert from the Citgo video to discredit CIT and then.........
4) That very same government a couple of months later let Craig expose the whole thing with permisssion on their property.

Then it is your right.

ARE YOU WILLING TO SACRIFICE YOUR PAST CREDIBILITY ON THESE PEOPLE???

Russell

Except that one of the only things your witnesses agreed on was that there WAS NO SECOND PLANE!

If you want to believe that it would look like "normal" air traffic then that is your mental eraser at work trying to get rid of the actual facts.

I understand you are capable of having over a ton of light poles being stolen, broken and then sprinkled around in broad daylight while a 69 year old cab driver is recruited by black ops to be the witness to convince us of it.

You can do mental gymnastics most of us are not willing to do.

YOU HAVE to want this all to be true for your self-promotion or you could NEVER just erase it with a thought and cling to your manipulated/edited sound bites from eyewitness who are PROVEN to have been incorrect and embellished.

Here we go again.

Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.
Power of suggestion, repeat.

This entire charade by Russel's posting is hilarious if it were so sad in itself.

Do I have to point out all your double-speak?

The only whining going on is the people from the self-promoting LooseChange who would rather attack the investigation instead of supporting the questions.

There is no need to get into names I suppose. The main players in this section of the self-promoting LooseChange forum are well known.

Russel,
When you said you 'warned Them' about releasing the NTSB Animation, was this just in your head, or did you actually warn someone about releasing data before it was actually released?

I think the only reason the controlling members here discredit the flyover so much, is it allows them to ignore the testimony of the plane on the North side of the Citgo.

Cool down, Russell...you seem to imply that supporting "these people" automatically ruins my "past" credibility, an implication that is certainly wrong and makes your question an illegitimate one of the type "Do you still beat your wife?"

Don't play logics with me, please.

You are lying about my claims yet again.

We don't care what you believe but the point is that we are forced to defend ourselves against your relentless personal discredit campaign against us.

You create the impression that you are 100% certain in your beliefs yet you expressed the exact opposite on our trip.

You completely flip flopped when you got home with no valid reason.

Lloyd's story was the same since day one.

The survivor fund project reported it, NBC news reported, and he repeated it to us exactly the same other than the "explosion" knocking him down which turned to how "quiet" everything was.

That's pretty good accuracy for someone with a horrible memory.

Lagasse embellished because of his machismo and corrected it for the record by admitting he "flinched" and jumped into his car out of a "fear". This is a far cry from what Lloyd did.

Once again Russell is not happy with the firsthand testimony so he MAKES IT UP FOR HIMSELF! And states it with authority as if it's fact.

Russell has dismissed the testimony of Lloyd and all the citgo witnesses and replaced it with his own fantasy so it will fit with his pet theory.

What's particularly ridiculous for him to do this regarding Lloyd is that this was his story BEFORE the interview! So we do the interview and Lloyd's story matches perfectly with all other reports........yet Russell chooses to go right back to his initial speculation!

How is that the least bit logical or scientific?

We ignore you and don't care about you until you attack US. YOU are the one that is going off on our "motives" and acting like an authority on our personalities because of your personal experience with us.

I merely responded with the same to clear the air because it's obvious that you are the one not being honest about our experience with each other and making a pathetic attempt to demonize us based on this.

Quite simple.

Because Lagasse's story is corroborated by everyone and Lloyd's story is not corroborated by ANYONE. (not to mention the front pump/back pump mistake has no bearing of his vantage point of the plane on the north side.

Not a single witness claims they saw that pole spear his windshield.

Not one.

You begin and end every post with an appeal to emotion and a personal attack.

It's very transparent.

So then she can't be sure if the plane flew over the pentagon either, right?? Thus she is not a witness to a flyover.

Getting control? How so? We have control because we have information, if that's what you mean. You have lost control.

We know Russell. You are like psychic and stuff. You've driven it into people's heads how you warned of "this". Image and information "control"? What the hell are babbling about?

Yes I know Russ. Because you were so innocent. You are so benevolent.

What happens? People step in and have there collective asses handed to them in a debate? What? People learn something? What? People start to think differently about the Pentagon attack?

Control? Manipulation? Huh? You discredited yourself, Russell. You intended that? Man you are AWESOME.

No. Once again. AGAIN. You twist the truth. We asked that people start paying attention to the rules, users and mods included. We asked for civil exchanges without being insulted or attacked.

oooh. You hear that Craig. He is going to push our buttons. Meaning he will intentionally aggravate us. To expose us for what we really are. Is it ok if we expose who you really are Russell?

Sure of course. So as long you are here to explain it to them OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AD INFINITUM.

Then, I guess it's a good thing you don't have a career huh?

She's not even a real person.

Witnesses require a first and last name, that are verifiable. She is not a witness. She is a lead.

Now for the accusation that I misrepresented the Citgo manager's statement to me to somehow deter Aldo and Craig from discovering the truth.

Under penalty of a firey eternity in hell I KNOW what she told me.

I TOOK CRAIG AND ALDO THERE KNOWING THERE WAS A NORTH SIDE WITNESS.

I TOOK THEM THERE SO THEY COULD MEET THE MANAGER AND EXPLORE IT.

I chose to let Aldo handle that since the flyover was his thing and the impact was mine.

We had pre-agreed to split the research.

CRAIG - was there a female employee witness at the Citgo who was outside?

Have you found out who it was that ran from the pumps in a white shirt to the store in the video?

Do you know HER name?

Have you interviewed her?

Be honest!

Come again??

Exactly!

Do you still not even understand the 2nd plane cover story?

There was not a 2nd plane.

This was a lie put out by a couple of lying witnesses to help confuse anyone who may have seen the plane flyover.

The c-130 did NOT shadow the plane and veer away in fact O'Brien did not witness the attack or even know it was the Pentagon that got "hit".

Huh?

Hell no.

I have no idea who you are talking about.

Buy you SPECIFICALLY said that Barbara was referring to a female when she was talking about Robert.

Robert was filling up water but he is not a female and Barbara wouldn't make that mistake.

Say what??

Logics?

Woody - those are two entirely different structures for asking a question. Nice try.

You are blindly jumping in every time supporting these people without research. So much so they are parading your quotes as a signature.

You are not even asking the tough questions a neutral researcher would.

Think about it!!!!!!

This is complete misrepresentation of the facts.

Russell knew we were going to the citgo no matter WHAT he said.

Yes he had talked to the manager before us a couple of times but he said NOTHING about the north side witness until the day that we went there together.

Then all of the sudden he came out of the station with this cock-a-mamy story about a girl on a cell phone seeing the plane on the north side.

At this point he knew damn well we would be asking Barbara about witnesses.

He did NOT tell us in advance that there was a north side witness nor was it BECAUSE of Russell that we went to the citgo.

PLUS Russell also knew damn well that we would follow up regarding Robert regardless of what he said so for him to suggest we did this due to a "pre-arrangement" is nonsense and an obvious attempt to make himself an authority.

This is a very dishonest representation of the facts.

Sorry Russell...I DID some research on the Pentagon I KNOW that there are many conflicting witness statements that's why I intervened with Barbara who is a witness detected by ME to counter your claim that the flyover was observed by NOBODY. This is no "blind jumping in".

As you may have noticed, Aldo doesn't view Barbara as a credible witness. I do. I keep my independent stance. But when someone presents me four witness with detailed authentic consistent statements like CIT, I'm glad to add it to my picture.

UT,

Let me explain it.

When Aldo and JDX took over the forums in the past - this is exactly what happened.

Now we are all de-admined they have to do it via others.

Any honest person who knows the history here will recall the initiation of attacks including attacks on Dylan from the past. It wasn't me.

The MO of these guys was to attack, discredit, edit, close threads (or appeal to others to do it), ban people, move information out of the public eye, and try to be the only ones with a voice.

Now that they have accomplished their goals and become imitation film makers it is even worse. EGOS are not good in this area of research.

No matter what the cost to me I will persist in seeking out what really happened. I have nothing to gain, nothing to prove, no self-promotion or financial gain - no roadshow. Just a desire to understand what happened.

If TRUTH was their goal why wouldn't these guys WANT PentaCON tried by fire?

WHY wouldn't they welcome a challenge to test it and see if it stands as the truth?

Why would you instead frantically and emotionally try to defend it and promote it?

THINK.....................

Russell

This is the furthest you have gone.

It is hard to understand if you have actually deceived yourself here or if you have resorted to blatant misrepresentation.

You should at least be honest with yourself Craig.

You are lying Russell.

Dylan was there too.

Are you suggesting that you already knew about the north side witness before we went to the citgo on the day we were detained?

If so.......you have implied that you were open with this information.

You were not.

You did not say a thing about a north side witness UNTIL that day when you came out of the station and mentioned the girl on the cell phone.

Then Barbara came out and we asked her questions and she relayed Robert's story as he confirmed it to us later.

Then you acted incredulous as if she had just told you a different story minutes earlier.

I have decided that perhaps your crhonology is off and your memory incorrect.

But I will tit-for-tat this a bit because it is another example of distortion.

I 100% was told by Barbara the day before what I relayed to you.

I took you there with the full knowledge of you guys meeting her and hearing for yourself.

Barbara came out and told you a different story and that was the result of my surprise.

This is the paranoid/delusional quality that has led to all of this.

I was not involved in ANY plot to drive you away from a north side witness.

If this is the case you withheld that information until we were at the citgo station the next day.

You did NOT tell us about a north side witness until that day and THEN you all of the sudden acted surprised that she changed her story.

Either way you manipulated the situation and you are misrepresenting the facts today.


****I guarantee this to be true because Aldo and I would have been freaking out chomping at the bit trying to get to Barbara to ask her about Robert.

This was not the case in the least.

Russell did not tell us about the north side witness until moments before we talked with Barbara and within those moments Barbara's story allegedly changed from female to male.

Dylan,

Do you remember Russell mentioning anything about the north side witness prior to us visiting the station together?

In fact.....

It was our last day and Aldo was only interested in canvassing the neighborhoods.

He didn't even want to "waste time" at the citgo because all we were going to do was try and get some footage/images of the Pentagon and he was afraid about the cops.

But Dylan was hell bent on going there to get the footage so we did.

If we had known about the north side witness our mindset would have been MUCH different.

Why did you withhold that information and then act like you just found it out?

OMG.

You are such a lying POW.

Craig you see this shit? This is unbelieveable. Everything I said he would do he is doing.

See, we were just along for the ride everyone. Russell is seriously trying to give the impression that he gave us ALL the information. He is acting as if he is the authority. As if we just tagged along.

Russell was invited. It was OUR trip. Dylan suggested he/Russell tag onto our trip.

You CONVENIENTLY got out there before us. Was out talking to the people I pointed out to you from MY research.

RUSSELL DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE ANTENNA, THE VDOT, OR THE AUTO SHOP. THAT WAS ALL COMPLIMENTS OF ME:

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...wtopic=9023&hl=

Now he lies, as if he can assert more "control over the information". yeah who's "controlling information" now?

This is exactly how it went down:

We went to the Citgo together. We let him go in, because he claimed he had already spoke with Barb once before about the cameras and the 3 booms she heard. Russell came out of the store. Dylan, Craig, and I were standing outside of the store waiting for Russell to come out. He came out and said, "She's coming out. She claims she has an employee who saw the plane on the (north) side of the gas station. Barb then comes out for her smoke break. She talks to us. *I* immediately ask her about her employee. She says "*HE* saw the plane over here(referencing the north side), *HE* was back here refilling water containers, *HE* is on vacation and will be back on Labor Day."

Then when she left, Russell started his performance in the art of confusion and discreditation., with "gee...that's weird...she said it was a girl on a cell phone". It wierded me out, because he mentioned this more than once. Now I know why he was doing it.

Don't lie anymore Russell. You learned about it then and there, at least that is the presentation we were presented with.

Hey everybody,

Let's try Craig's world on for size.

Russell Pickering went to DC.

He tried to hide data from Craig and Aldo.

Russell Pickering is a chronic and malicious liar.

The government edited Robert out of the Citgo video and released it to discredit Craig and Aldo.

They thought this would do it and decided to forget about Craig and Aldo.

They trimmed trees and hustled light poles around but just messed up on the detail for which course the plane was to be on.

But despite this screw up, the explosion was still perfectly timed to fool a trained explosives expert - Bill Lagasse.

Lagasse lied about the initital path of the plane, about being blown into the car, seeing the generator and made up the yaw and forgot where he was parked. BUT he is right about which side the plane was on.

Now Russell believes the flyover happened.

But he hates Craig and Aldo so much he wants to become complicit in murder to prevent Craig and Aldo from having a series of successful films.

Or maybe the perps having realized their screw up in flying the plane the wrong way AND letting Craig film their uniformed officers on government property blowing the case wide open.........

have hired Russell to lie and discredit Craig and Aldo on one forum in the entire Internet because this will fix the situation........

Unfortunately, no, I do not.

He's a lying prisoner of war?

Are you drinking?

I wanted to go to the Citgo.

I was in no hurry because if you remember I suggested we go drop off Dylan's other footage at the hotel just in case. Good thing we did.

You have already indicated that I had acquired permission to film from the knoll from the cop that detained me the day before. Do you remember telling that story?

REMEMBER we were going to interview Mike Walter their and had it all planned??????

You seriously need an evaluation.

Please go back and read the original flyover threads and the threads from after DC to refresh your memory.

Aldo,

Your whole thing is laced with inaccurate paranoia and suspicion.

This is good.

This is the kind of stuff I am trying to expose you for.

It is the same mental/emotional instability that causes you to be banned from forums and believe Lloyd is a murderer.

Barbara told me of the employee the day she took me to shoot under the canopy.

You too are VERY much in need of evaluation.

Russell

P.S.

No matter how hard you try you CANNOT make somebody into a liar that does not lie.

The government is not after you.

I do not work for the government.

I do not lie.

If not an evaluation - please take a break and get some rest at the minimum.