People need to stop lying about how far the debris was spread around. 1 mile from crash site to indian lake, not 8.

Indian Lake is 2 miles and New Baltimore is 8.

I suspect you never even been to Pennsylvania. TROLL.

Debris was discovered in New Baltimore, eight miles as the crow flies, from the crash site. Do you think it was significant debris was found eight miles away?


------------------------------------------------
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/200...roddy0911p5.asp

A year after explosive discord, town still seeks harmony

Wednesday, September 11, 2002

SHANKSVILLE, Pa. -- As teams of security agents combed the hillsides to make the day's proceedings the safest act of public mourning in history, a town half-tired of being famous soldiered doing what towns do.

There was concrete to be laid on one end of town. The high school was in session. At an Amoco station that hasn't sold gasoline for three years, mechanic Bruce Grine stood beneath a rusting Chevy Cavalier and tried to jury-rig a series of bright silver clamps to a leaky rubber tube that was passing itself off as a fuel line.

"All day long -- week in, week out -- people come in askin' where the flight site is. Then, where the mine site is," Grine said. A rumble of propellers cut into the midday heat and an Air Force C-130 banked across the town, just through the tree line where the smoke from United Flight 93 had traced a line in the sky one year earlier.

"Yesterday we had hellycopters goin'," Grine said. "Security, I guess."

No one in town would have had cause to know that it was all practice to make sure the Air Force planes arrived in time to the national anthem during ceremonies today.

Before 9/11, Grine told people where he came from by giving them the distance from Pittsburgh. "Now you say Shanksville and everybody knows," he said. That is to say, they have heard of the town and have placed it somewhere in their internal map of civic history, but finding the actual place can still be tricky.

The region was settled in the 19th century, meaning the roads represent a compromise to the surrounding mountains. An outsider looking for something can easily get turned around. Even the locals are sometimes unaware of how close they are to a given point, and modern life leaves them unaware of such simple things as the wind currents.

The village of New Baltimore is a dozen or more miles by automobile but eight as the wind blows, which it was doing a year ago. Melanie Hankinson was at the church next to her home, transfixed before a television that showed the World Trade Center ablaze, when the man who sprays her lawn stopped by to tell her he was finding odd things in the weeds.

"He said there was a loud bang and smoke and then these papers started blowing through your yard," she said. "I said, 'Oh.' Then I went back to the TV." Then the parish priest, the Rev. Allen Zeth, told her an airplane had crashed in Shanksville.

For the next few hours, Hankinson gathered charred pages of in-flight magazines, papers from a pilot's manual -- she remembers a map showing the Guadalajara, Mexico, airport -- and copies of stock portfolio monthly earnings reports.

"And there was some black webbing -- a lot of people found that," she said. The webbing, flexible where it hadn't burned, crisp where it had, was from insulation lining the belly of the jetliner.

"A couple more miles and it could have been here," Hankinson said. Those words have been spoken in straight lines emanating in every direction from the strip mine where Flight 93 rent the earth.

In Shanksville, people still wonder at how the unthinkable could have added another layer of hideousness had the plane crested the hillside and struck the high school. A few degrees more, added Grine, "and we wouldn't be here talking."

Instead, he was now talking with Brenda Sell, who despaired of getting one broken automobile back before she had to drop off the one she was now driving. Her family business constructed the chain-link fence around the now-filled-in crater where Flight 93 crashed. Beyond that, any commerce connected to the effort troubled her.

"I'm getting tired of people setting up little booths and selling stuff," she said. "It's the local people doing that."

True, said Grine. His brother is selling funnel cakes and lemonade near the crash site. Others are hawking T-shirts. At the Somerset exit of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, two enterprising women are peddling bouquets of "Freedom Flowers," some of which by now are no doubt crowding a makeshift memorial where, yesterday, such surviving families as could bear the weight stood on an old strip mine and looked down a hill at a chain link fence while airplanes rumbled overhead trying to get in time to the music.

Black webbing and most likely small pieces of the fuselage. I met one guy who had that all over his yard 5 miles away. He photographed all of it. Enough to cover a picnic table and that was just from his yard. He said it was all over the place.

:rolleyes:

Yes we all agree. People do need to stop lying about the actual size of the Flight 93 (assuming it was Flight 93) debris field.
Check your facts before you open your mouth and prove that you have not. :rolleyes:

Hmmm!! How come the grass did not get burned by the jet fuel? An aircraft is inside that tiny hole?

Any chance of me getting a copy of the photograph or someone posting the image?

I'm talking with him. I think he's withholding because he gave them to McClatchey for her book. I'll update you after my next trip.

From Popular Mechanics:

FACT: Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater — not 6 miles — easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest — toward Indian Lake.


Miller must be in on it too. :blink:

New Baltimore was eight miles from the crash site.

Debris was found in New Baltimore.

See: "Crash debris found 8 miles away By Debra Erdley TRIBUNE-REVIEW Friday, September 14, 2001

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html

Quote:

"Hmmm!! How come the grass did not get burned by the jet fuel? An aircraft is inside that tiny hole?"

http://www.angelsfortruth.com/No%20Flight%...iaCrashSite.jpg

See:

FOX NEWS FLIGHT 93 NO DEBRIS FOUND AT HOLE:

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=555...earch&plindex=0

"FOX News reporter: I want to get quickly to Chris Konicki; he's a photographer with the Pittsburgh affiliate of FOX affiliate. He was back there just a couple of minutes go and Chris, I've seen the pictures, it looks like there's nothing there except for a hole in the ground.
Chris Konicki: Ah, basically that's right. The only thing you can see from where we where was a big gouge in the earth and some broken trees. We could see some people working walking around in the area, but from where we could see it, there wasn't much left.
Reporter: Any large pieces of debris at all?
KONICKI: NA, THERE WAS NOTHING, NOTHING THAT YOU COULD DISTINGUISH THAT A PLANE HAD CRASHED THERE.
Reporter: Smoke? Fire?
Konicki: Nothing. It was absolutely quite. It was actually very quiet. Um, nothing going on down there. NO SMOKE, NO FIRE. Just a couple of people walking around. They looked like part of the NTSB crew walking around, looking at the pieces.
Reporter: how big would you say that hole was?
Konicki: FROM MY ESTIMATES, I WOULD GUESS IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 20FT TO 15FT LONG AND PROBABLY 10FT WIDE.
Reporter: What could you see on the ground if anything other than dirt and ash and...
Konicki: You couldn't see anything. You could just see dirt, ash and people walking around, broken trees."

It is impossible that this description can correspond to the crash of a Boeing 757 because recognizable debris of the airplane would have been noticed and because the thousands of gallons of jet fuel spread on the ground at the momemt where the airplane was crashed would have also created fires burning with smokes of black colour. Examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqo4oh-AzU...related&search=

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-42...earch&plindex=1

Flight 93 was a Boeing 757-222 :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93

Its dimensions were as follows:

Length (155 ft 3 in)
Wheelbase (60 ft)
Wingspan (124 ft 10 in)

This image shows that the ground remains intact and that it is not covered by debris on most of the trajectory of the wings of the airplane, what is also impossible.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9933/92sim5dn.jpg

yrulying2me,

sorry, with all respect: Reading PM article only might not suffice especially as you don't care about the difference that no human remains but plane parts were found in New Baltimore wich indeed is 8 miles away.
And even if also BBC claims this, too, the distance to Indian Lake is minimum 1,5 miles but to Indian Lake Marina where most of the debris was found is 2,5 to 3 miles.
But don't forget: eight miles from the crash site debris from the plane was found if you like it or not. Go ahead and make my day and tell me that debris can stay in the air for 51 minutes ....
(btw already the eyewitnesses at Indian Lake Marina contradict the wind theory).

Few trolls go as far as making parody 9/11 truth videos like you terrorcell, "with interviews and everything".

So you have nothing to contribute to this forum but disinformation and personal attacks? Nice.

So why do you need more than 1 user name to do this?

I can't get anything to add up with UAL 93. If it did land in Cleveland, then what was strewn all over Somerset County.

If the FDR record is at all reliable, and we assume Don de Grand-Pre's shoot-down scenario, then how could the debris have traveled 8(New Baltimore) to 12(per Nevin Lambert) miles, since the plane was only at around 5,500 feet at the time?

The 5,500 foot altitude does make Edward Felt's phone call far more plausible than if it were made at cruising altitude. The FDR says the plane subsequently rose to 10,000 feet before plummeting like a rock.

And then we have the clear witness testimony of an A-10 in the area, as well as multiple reasons to believe there were F-16s around after the impact.

There is no evidence of jet fuel at or near the crater.

De Grand-Pre puts the missile strike at 09:58, whereas seismic data corroborated by news reports puts the tremor from impact at 10:06. FDR puts it at 10:03, as do the 9/11 Cover-Up Commission and NORAD. It appears the FAA originally endorsed the 10:06 impact time.

Can we believe the plane flew for 7 to 8 minutes after being hit by two sidewinders? Did some significant part of it really hit near Shanksville? If so, how did the A-10 pilot know he should be there when it happened? The evidence is that he was not only there at the time of the impact, but that he was there waiting for it to arrive.

The plane could have traveled 50 or more miles in that period between the sidewinder strike and the time the crater was made.

There are multiple witness accounts of a large plane coming in. It's possible that some of them are stretching the truth to fit the story, or worse, but we can't simply reject it out of hand.

I somewhat agree with your post but you keep pushing this A10 stuff and it isn't true.

There were 2 fighter jets.
There was a 'commercial jet' with a "black belly" - Lee Purbaugh.
There was a UAV.

You're whole A10 belief is based on an article written by Bollyn where he claims Viola Saylor says thats the type of plane she saw. Don't bank on that article.

I won't mention this any further, you want to run with this A10 theory go right ahead, but someday you will admit that it was wrong.

Next time a jumbo jet flies 50 feet over your head at 500+ mph while you are cutting steel with a burning torch and you glance up into a clear sky, tell me with confidence what color the belly of the plane is.

No. I had not even seen Christopher's article about an A-10 when I came to the conclusion that it was almost certainly an A-10. It's based on a whole lot more, including Susan McElwain's accounts of the plane. Your interview did nothing to dispel that. The fact that people have clearly been "working on her" to convince her of what she saw undermines the reliability of her more recent accounts in comparison to the un-coached descriptions she provided long ago.

Even her "No, that wasn't it." comment based on the momentary look she had at a picture of an A-10 from a completely different perspective than any she had described, was unpersuasive.

http://vehme.blogspot.com/2007/08/history-...acy-of-911.html

This is not a matter of pride. It is a matter of best evidence.

I'll tell you this much. When I suggested an A-10 vaporized the plane at point-blank range, Bob Leverknight of the Daily American, who does reporting on military matters and was, at the time, a member of the National Guard (IIRC), told me that it couldn't have been an A-10 because there were no A-10s stationed within range that were armed with warheads that could have done what I suggested. When I tried to press the issue by saying "This was a crime of immense proportions....", he interrupted with (I paraphrase) "Yes it was a crime of immense proportions. Arab terrorists hijacked the plane and murdered 40 innocent Americans!" and hung the phone up.

Translation: A-10s can be armed with weapons capable of doing what I suggested.

Nevin Lambert said he felt the heat from the blast from his farm. IIRC that's the better part of a mile from the crater. Thermal radiation intensity measures as the inverse square of the distance from the source. That's pretty damn hot!

There's a piece of straight road at Camp David which seem to go absolutely nowhere. It is very hard to see in the satellite images (which may have been touched), but it is there. A-10s are exceptional in their ability to take off and land on short rough runways.

We know what Dick Cheney (CFR director, JINSA advisory board member) was doing at the time the plane was shot down. What was Dubya doing? If Rick Gibney hit the plane with sidewinders, that order should have come from the CinC. Now, a loitering A-10 in position to finish the job is a whole different matter.

You're pretty close to the truth.

I don't know how you can say you base the A10 account on a whole lot more when the whole thing traces back to him quoting Viola Saylor identified it as such and then implying Susan McElwain corroborated it. That is where every A10 originated from, that one article. It's not true.

I'm just going to leave it at that because there is no sense in arguing about this. Seems like we agree on about 90%. I don't want to argue with you.

:D

The whole thing traces back to the several descriptions, including Susan McElwain's which I read before I ever saw Christopher's. I had already surmised it was an A-10 when I found that report about Viola Saylor. I based my speculations on what the other witnesses described in their own words. So when you tell me that my belief that it was an A-10 traces back to Christopher's article, you are wrong. Now that you have been informed of this fact, it would be a lie for you to repeat the assertion that my A-10 interpretation traces back to Christopher's work.

Well I'd just like to see an earlier source then him. If you know where all this originated please help me out. I appreciate it greatly.

"It came right over me, I reckon just 40 or 50ft above my mini-van," [Susan McElwain] recalled. "It was so low I ducked instinctively. It was travelling real fast, but hardly made any sound."
...
"There's no way I imagined this plane - it was so low it was virtually on top of me. It was white with no markings but it was definitely military, it just had that look.

"It had two rear engines, a big fin on the back like a spoiler on the back of a car and with two upright fins at the side."

"Yes, there was another plane," Lee [Purbaugh] said. "I didn't get a good look but it was white and it circled the area about twice and then it flew off over the horizon."

Tom Spinelli, 28, was working at India Lake Marina, a mile and a half away. "I saw the white plane," he said.

"It was flying around all over the place like it was looking for something. I saw it before and after the crash."

We called them "Tank Killers". When I saw those descriptions I immediately recognized it as the description of an A-10. It fits all the characteristics of an A-10, and there were two witnesses who positively identified an A-10 as what they saw. One of the witnesses was not named.

i see great potential in you... be firm...and you wont need to provide proof....

saddam was aiding al-qaeda!!!....lol...

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU ENLARGE AND MAKE BOLD I ASKED YOU FOR AN EARLIER SOURCE THAN CHRISTOPHER BOLLYN FOR THE A10 THEORY. I ONCE BELIEVE BOLLYN. THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT PICTURES OF THE A10. NOW ARE YOU GOING TO POST A LINK TO A SOURCE OTHER THAN BOLLYN IN REGARDS TO THE A10 OR ARE YOU GOING TO JUST KEEP QUOTING OTHER EYEWITNESSES DESCRIPTION OF THE UAV?

\

Did you read that?!!! it hardly made any sound! It was only 50 ft above her head and made hardly any sound!!! You know what that means right? It means that the US MIHOP and they are allied with aliens (or at least have their technology)!!!!! This is amazing!!!

So, I hate to tell you this, but that witness isn't very reliable. Witnesses in general aren't reliable, but this one in particular. Have you ever been near a UAV or an a-10? They are very loud. So much so in fact, that you have to wear hearing protection when working around them. It was 50 ft over her head and she didn't hear it? Maybe it was a guided missile. Aren't those really quite?

Boon
Posted: Sep 26 2007, 03:47 AM
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Melanie Hankinson's church is 8.5 miles to the South-East.

Do some research, ok?