How do you feel about your arguements now that they have pretty much been completely destroyed and millions of people watched it?

:rolleyes:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=14195

Really? By some editors at a magazine??
.
I feel sorry for anyone who is so lame as to not see that some editors at a magazine are not "experts" on 9/11.

It is continually amazing yet distressing to me that people with a working mind (I'll assume you have one) can find nothing amiss in the official conspiracy theory.

Then again, all this research and question asking takes a toll on your soul. It may be easier to swalllow the pill they've given us. But, at least for me, once I started to question things, too much did not add up, and there was no going back to blindly believing what the media tells me.

To each their own, though. You are free to believe the official story and I am free to question it.

Also, it sure seems ludicrous for people to accuse us of disrepecting the victims and their families by asking questions. Remember that the whole reason there even was an "investigation" (9(/11 commission, for what it was worth) was because some families were asking the same sorts of questions.

It continually astounds me how regular joes and real experts in their fields are villified for asking sincere questions.

Anyway, to answer your original question, I feel mostly sad to for the naive people who watch the HC show and accept Miegs and Cohen as experts. I also feel alittle hopeful that people will start to do some research from good sources and then .....well, I feel sad again because their lives will never be the same on some level.

Sounds like it gave most people a heamorage, didn't even cover building 7 properly. Always hilarious when someone joins a forum just to make a ridiculous thread like this one :lol:

No need to criticize someone for having an opinion whether he is wrong or right he can make that claim.

Actually a Better Documentary is the one from National Geographic they have actually footage of the roof corners bending down as the roof collapses on itself and the floors under it.

That is good proof that there were no "Demolitions" used to blow up the building.

Pathfinder

So the people that faked 911 are the same ones who could not fake WMD in Iraq?

:blink:

So some college kids that made a documentary and based their arguements on some shaky camera footage are experts? Everything I have heard about a conspiracy is always speculation with no facts to back it up.

One more question. For those of you that actually think our government was behind 911; Why arent you up in arms? I'm not talking about just holding a rally somewhere, if I actually believed that my own government killed thousands of our people, I would be rioting in the streets. My explaination for this is that you don't actually think it happened that way.

It seems to me that so many people believe this theory not because it has convincing arguements, but because they want to rebel in some way.

I hear people claiming that they are free to question 911 if they want. Of course you can. But I also see those that have bought into the 911 conspiracy stop questioning. They no longer look at the evidence and ignore conflicting arguements.

One more thing, it is disrespectful to these families. Even if you don't believe their story, their family members made huge sacrifices and acts of courage (united 97)
and for you to say that that never happened is disgusting (from our perspective).

I didn't believe either until I checked out this website. Now every thing is so much clearer. Now I can see that of the of thousands of people in the US govt., pentagon and CIA, FAA NYPD NYFD, NORAD, etc, that had to be in on this plot. There is not one single patriotic american with a conscience.

http://www.ericisgreat.com/tinfoilhats/index.html

Chew on this.

The History Channel showed the Mentia testimony with the aid coming in saying the plane is 50 miles out..... 40 miles out all the way up to the plane is 10 miles out does the order still stand and we all know Cheney's response.

So then they put Corbain on from PM and he says no one knows if they were talking about Flight 77 or Flight 93. Corbain then says it was probably a shootdown order and not a stand down order. My first question here is, how could it be Flight 93?? At that time what was 93 50 miles out of and closing??

Now for how they debunked themselves. Remeber Corbain said it was probably a shootdown order. That's all well and good but by the History Channels and PMs own account it is impossible. The Mentia testimony says Cheney said the order still stands before Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. How could it be a shootdown order then if Cheney, going by their account, didn't receive the order from Bush until 10:18am and didn't issue the order until 10:31am?? So that still leaves the question, what order was the aid and Cheney talking about??

Excellent point slamin. I wonder if the government faked the 93 trade center attack by Ramzi Yousef..l. Come to think of it I think the bombings in Spain and London were faked by George Bush as well. As were the foiled attacks on Fort Dicks and JFK.

Did you see the part in the HC special when one of the loose changers compared himself to Galileo? ..... More like Marshall Applewhite.

I'll quote Geronimo from another thread on why this documentary was a half truth at the very least, and it's blatantly obvious it's avoiding these specific areas of inquiry and others.

Your extra ordinarily naive if you consider this documentary as a reliable and thorough explanation of the entirety of events that day.

Flight 93??

At least get your facts straight before you come in here pissin and moanin.
Thanks!!!

You are naively assuming we are supposed to "win" in Iraq. Finding WMD would give the Neocons credibility. I don't believe that is part of the plan...

Iraq attacked us on 911 ! they are evil terrorists that wouldnt hesitate 1 second to strap bombs to their belts and blow themselves up in the name of their evil religion !

Your source please. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Iraq is full of them evil alquaida terrorists, they use explosions to kill innocent people. It was muslim terrorists just like on 911. A coincidence? I think not !

You'll find out that all the truths are simpler. Iraq is just a Bush vendetta. In some other thread, someone mentioned Ocam's razor. Yes, it's easier to believe hijackers orchestrated this - there were so many in the 70's and 80's - than to believe government could orchestrate so many complex events involving so many people. The hijackers took it to a new level never seen before - they were not just a bunch of goat herders!

What I love about the 911 conspiracy theory is that these guys refute all evidence - phone calls from the doomed plane even - and it all equals a conspiracy. These guys are experts on plane crashes, air traffic control, building demolition, and missiles. "Who's behind it?" - "Uhm ... the government." "What's the motivation?" - "Uhm ... Trillion of dollars." Really where does this all lead? The conclusion that there's a conspiracy is not enough.

The 911 conspiracy theorists are classic. They're emotionally invested, and they're swayed by their political views. They attack anyone who questions them with snarky comments. This is what they live for. When this dies down, they'll find something else until we get tired of listening. If there's an enemy within, it's the CTers. They have us looking inward, while the real threat is external. All this controversy is inspiration to and emboldens the Islamic fundamentalists to take more innocent lives, especially American lives.

We should tap all phones to listen to potential terrorists, put security cameras everywhere so we can track these animals down, microchip people so we know who shouldnt be there. We need police everywhere, we need to make the army bigger and have a more aggressive stance on towards evil enemies. We should bomb any country that supports terrorism.

Wow.

I think I truly know who this person is.

:rolleyes: So much for the principals upon which this great country was founded. <_<

Troy, or our fuherer ? :unsure:

No, it sounds exactly like my friend. Everything he is saying, its incredible. The similarities are ridiclous!

Wellington is too "real" to be true. My take is he's acting out the perfect neocon's sheep, a realist disguised as a troll.

As for AppealtoReason, I wish I could say the same:

This is dangerous speech, sir. Dangerous because it equates people who've taken the time to look at 9/11 and ask questions with "enemy sympathizers." I would expect disparaging commentary like this from Joe McCarthy, or George W. Bush, or Rush Limbaugh. Needless to say, I find none of these men honorable, trustworthy, or credible.

How dare you insinuate that people who see the contradictions, who witness the lies, who do the research, who experience the stonewall, and who have learned what bullcrap smells like ... how dare you equate them -- us -- me -- with the ones who are really and truly inflaming Islam? You want to rail against something, sir? Your target could be much more wisely chosen. Those who torture. That would make anyone mad at us. Those who seek to usurp natural resources and effectively enslave third-world populations. That might also get people riled up. Those who've presided over the slaughter of a million innocents in a country that posed no threat to us (Iraq, in case you can't guess). Those who assert that God supports us (Christians) and not them (godless Muslim ragheads). Those who act the bully, using bombs instead of diplomacy. These are the actions that force people to believe they have no recourse but terrorism.

The 9/11 Truth Movement emboldens terrorists? That's so funny it's pathetic.

And it's OK to accuse other people of the highest treason - to attack and kill thousands of Americans on American soil? ... on non-expert testimony?

In a chaotic situation, people will make mistakes, there will be differing accounts. If you're going to perform a true investigation, you have to account for the differences, not disregard them. Personal accounts are the least reliable. Look at the number of people falsely imprisoned and even sentenced to death based on faulty visual ID. I'd hate to think that CTers serve on juries. If the makers of Loose Change were journalists, they'd be bad ones for sure - recklessly making poorly reasoned claims that don't lead to cohesive conclusions, that only incite the public.

Yes, I do stand by my statement that people like you are apologists for Islamic fundamentalists and endanger this great nation - which allows for this kind of discourse. Forget what they do to Westerners, look what they do to each other. The leaders are radical extremists and you play into their hands. Some of these conflicts are pure power struggles and these people are not the innocents you portray.

If you watch video from the morning of 9/11/2001, you'll see Jerome Hauer already accusing Osama bin Laden of the disaster. Was he in a position to know this as a fact, so early? Was that OK? To this day our own intelligence agencies do not have evidence to pin it on OBL.

You have to account for this significant "difference" from the 911 Commission Report, don't you?

The number of people falsely accused and imprisoned in Guantanamo grieves me no end. No habeas corpus. If only they had lawyers and juries, eh?

I don't make poorly-reasoned claims, although I'm aware of a few. Disinformation abounds. What I do claim is that there is insufficient evidence to support the official version of the destruction that happened on 9/11/2001. The official version has huge gaping holes in it, and relies on impossibles, like the laws of physics being suspended on that day, and that day only. The official version simply ignores "differences." I can't do that.

The only thing the 9/11 Truth Movement endangers are the real perpetrators of the tragedy. By your thinking, that would be the radical extremists, wouldn't it? But it isn't the radical extremists who continue to attempt to marginalize and demonize people who are sincerely looking for answers, who are asking for a real, honest, objective investigation.

2 + 2, you know. Do the math.

Ppl like "whereistheevidence" dont even care to investigate further then what the main straim news are saying. So why bother?? If I place myself in his shoes then yes I am disrespecting the lives that where lost that day.

Two years ago I thought that everything the news had to say was right and thought to myself "why would they even lie". But something happend .. internet :D

Actually quite pleased

It was the most comprehensive foot shooting and self inflicted wounding exercise I've ever experienced.

Now everyone knows you are compulsive habitual lying SOBs and if ever there was another spur to get the truth out this was it.

Popular Mechanics ain't that popular Sonny Boy and is comprehensively ripped apart here and again here

Found any Weapons of Mass destruction Guv? Get your mother to look for them mothers always find things for you.

Of course not.

Yet it's OK to invade, occupy, and destroy a country and slaughter a million of its citizens and foment division and civil war among them? ... on lies and forgeries? ... under the guise of WMD? Regime change? Bringing Democracy? ... or whatever it is this week.

If you think about it, our government has accused other people (AKA Osama bin Laden and the 19 boxcutters) of killing thousands of Americans, with no proof.

And as a result, we've invaded and occupied TWO countries. We've poisoned their land with depleted uranium. We've raped and killed their women and children. We've tortured their people in hideous ways. Don't get me started.

Bush, Cheney and Gonzales, and likely several others, are guilty of treason and high crimes. This is without blaming them for 9/11. I doubt you are unaware, but just in case, here's a list of some of their obvious, proven crimes:

• Invading Iraq with United States military forces.
• Sacrificing the lives of thousands of American troops.
• Killing tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians and conscripts.
• Violating the Geneva Convention by abducting and transporting human beings to prisons in foreign countries where they can be tortured and subjected to inhumane treatment.
• Providing misinformation to the United Nations Security Council, Congress, and the American people overstating the offensive capabilities of Iraq, including weapons of mass destruction, as justification for military action against Iraq.
• Repeatedly manipulating the sentiments of the American people by erroneously linking Iraq with the terrorist attacks of September 11th by Al-Qaeda.
• Repeatedly claiming that satellite photos of sites in Iraq depicted factories for weapons of mass destruction in contradiction with the results of ground inspections by United Nations teams.
• Stating that "Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa" in his State of the Union Address after being told by the CIA that this was untrue and that the supporting documents were forged.
• Influencing, manipulating and distorting intelligence related to Iraq with the intention of using that intelligence to support his goal of invading Iraq.
• Repeatedly ordering the NSA to place illegal wiretaps on American citizens without a court order from FISA.
• Revealing the identity of a secret operative within the CIA, thus destroying WMD information-gathering networks.
• Weakening the effects of International Law by defying the United Nations thus encouraging other nations to violate International law by example.
• Proposing military strategies involving the first use of tactical or low yield nuclear weapons in violation of the Nonproliferation Treaty, which is an inherently destabilizing strategy that encourages participants in a conflict to strike before the other side can do so.

And you are railing against "truthers?" :lol:

The video was not very favorable to this site. That was pretty clear.

Without trying to "start something" I am really authentically curious:

What are these "Questions" you speak of?

It is pretty clear that most of them have been answered by now I would guess. But it would be helpful to get an enumeration of 10-20 of these "questions" that you say you are "just asking".

So, lets see them.

Thanks,

HC B)

I think the "shoot down" order is the default order, sir.

Given the extraordinary circumstances (never before has such things happened on our soil where the theorhetical "shoot down" came into play), I think the innocent asking if it still stands is pretty easy to understand.

Personally, I was pretty disgusted by the History Channel's hatchet job. It's obvious they had no intention of looking at the 9/11 issue objectively. They ignored all the best pieces of evidence completely. It was just horrible.