Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery, I commend you on having passion to stand up and question everything and everyone. Only recently watching 'Loose Change' and your debate with popular mechanics, I must say I am impressed.

Going into a debate with 'Popular Mechanics' must have been a daunting task to prepare for, but I must say that Jason needs to work on his debate etiquette. Blurting out "Liar" when the guys from 'Popular Mechanics' are trying to make their point is a bit embarrassing to you. If you think they are liars, thats fine...wait until it is your turn to retort. You seemed eager to speak and not really listen, as soon as you heard something that you disagreed with it seems you would work into a frenzy waiting to talk and not listen to the rest of what they had to say. Focus on an aspect that is weak in their argument, and throw out a question like, "How quickly does the jet fuel itself burn? What are the highest recorded temperatures of that type of fuel burned? How long does it take to reach that temperature? Also, would you say that the full amount of fuel injected itself straight for the elevator shaft and stairs as you implied earlier? I do not know, this is why I am asking your profession opinion." Force him/her [or whoever you are having a debate about the matter with] to make a statement that will challenge his/her credibility on that topic.

***I am sure that the next statement is going to seem to reiterate what you might already know, but it is only to illustrate a point and try to draw another picture for you***

A Boeing 767 is capable of carrying up to 23,980 gallons of jet fuel and that the jet fuel can weaken steel over time, like the steel in the WTC. Ok, this seems along the lines of what someone who agrees with the status quo and doesn't question much *AKA, your average American* would say because it provides just enough factual evidence to be believed. Are we supposed to sit back and believe this? NOW, lets examine it further...on the conservative side of a trip of that caliber, each plane would be allocated around 10,000 gallons upon takeoff...and an even more conservative assumption will be that each plane injected 10,000 gallons of jet fuel immediately upon impact into the WTC without a single drop landing outside of the WTC walls. Science has proven that you need an ample amount of oxygen to keep a fire going...this is undisputed. Are we to really expected to believe that 10,000 gallons of jet fuel weakened the steel structure enough to collapse an engineering marvel with countless hours of work put into it to prevent something like this from happening in as little as 57 minutes? How would the fire breath with limited amounts of oxygen and spread down the stairwells and elevator shafts causing this much damage in 57 minutes? Lets say we agree with much of the lies fed to America...that a fair amount of the fuel did go downward into the elevator shaft and stairwells causing the steel to weaken in a downward spiral type situation...floor after floor would catch fire. Now, this is where it gets tricky...even if your not a jet fuel expert...YOU KNOW that fuel rapidly dissipates as it is consumed by fire. Even if the fuel somehow was funneled to trickle down and start fires on the subsequent floors, after the jet fuel was consumed the temp of the fire would be drastically reduced...leaving a fire, but not a steel melting inferno. I am not a expert on this matter, unlike those who had a full fledged, "fact supported" story minutes after the collapse who work(ed) for the bush administration. Where my expertise lacks in this matter, they make up for it by trying to explain the impossible...they would try and persuade you that on September 11th, 2001 that the World Trade Center along with the fuel in both planes ignored laws of physics...Apparently, the fuel in THOSE planes burn @ a higher temperature and that the steel in the WTC has a much lower heat resistance...what are the chances of both of these "impossible" feats taking place @ the same time and same place?

Do I believe the government knew about this prior to 9/11? Yes, yes I do.
Do I believe the government knew the outcome of what was to take place on that day? Yes, yes I do.
Do I believe the government was prepared to put the masses in a perpetual state of fear by sacrificing American lives on 9/11? Yes, yes I do.
Do I believe the government had a part in the events that took place so they could institute a so-called "Patriot Act" to protect us? Yes, yes I do.

The fact that the most horrific piece of legislature was passed only 45 days after 9/11 is mind boggling. This so-called "Patriot Act" is far from patriotic, weakening the protection of our civil liberties tremendously. The act itself took away more of our rights then anything before it, but mainly giving big brother more rights to tell us how to live. Be warned, the American government is prepared to sacrifice your life and the lives of your loved ones to obtain a higher amount of control over you.

America, Listen Up. Your rights are disappearing. Act Now, Voice your Opinion. Question Everyone, Everything...Even Yourself. Think freely, just because it is said on TV does not make it true America.

That is just my opinion, enlighten me with yours.

Well said.

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

You forget that the building not only burned, it suffered the impact of a 3-400,000 pound aircraft traveling 500+ mph, as fast as a pistol bullet. The force of that impact could have ripped fire proofing material off of steel in the world trade center.

If the central column of the building was heavily damaged, the exterior walls would have to support more weight. On top of the exterior walls having to support more weight, interior sections of the building connecting the core to the exterior walls could easily have been heavily damaged, or completely destroyed. The core was connected to exterior walls by floor sections made of steel trusses and concrete. The wall sections were connected to the exterior walls by only a few bolts. The floor sections also served to brace the exterior walls, preventing them from twisting or buckling. With the floor sections missing, increased weight on the exterior walls, heat of flames and damaged fireproofing possibly weakening the steel, the exterior walls could have buckled and eventually failed.

I don't understand how the WTC could have been brought down by controlled demolition. Demolishing a building takes months of planning and preparation and access to every part of a building. I don't see how explosives and MILES of cable could be placed without being discovered.

I don't understand why everyone seems to dismiss the just how much damage could have been done by the plane impact

Military grade

20:1 over design

award winning

load bearing

if localized fireproofing WAS dislodged I can't imagine it underminding the integrity of such an intense matrix of steel

heat travels towards cold in steel

heat dissipation

heat spreading

matrix of steel absorbs heat

UL tests/lies

NIST statements

miles of cable or wireless charges

horizontal ejections that blasted bones on rooftops and debris all the way to FDR Drive, East Manhattan



http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/...onsEvidence.pdf

Please watch the PBS nova video titled "Why the towers fell".

Punks act like punks. The producers of this garbage video are punks and act accordingly.

Fire weakens metal. Always has, always will. Jet fuel burns but so do exotic things such as, carpet, dry wall, desks, chairs, ceiling tile, luggage, plants, and other things you'd find in an office.

Sitting in your basement adding creedence to this garbage makes you look flat out idiotic.

Enjoy (or disdain) this post while it lasts. Avery and company scream and bitch about being censored but are all too happy to do the same thing to anybody that points out their litany of lies, half-truths, and sheer non-sense they spew fourth on a daily basis.

Stop spitting on the graves of the heros and victims of 9/11 and do something productive with your lives for a change.

God have mercy on your souls. Until then, you richly deserve all of the ridicule rightly thrust upon you; you sick freaks.









This is Pookie Kabuki and I approved this message. :D

Good points vaca232. A lot of refutations of CTers are based on isolating events from others. Yes, the towers were hit by planes with intent - not by accident. The hits were so tremendous they shook the towers to their foundations enough to be recorded as seismic events. Some of the columns were already taken out by the physical strike of the planes. The columns that failed were those REMAINING and were carrying more and uneven loads.

Why CD of the towers is even necessary is beyond me. The sight of the planes striking the towers would be enough. Why you would use planes on the towers and a missile on the Pentagon (and did the missile have a warhead or not?) I cannot fathom.

For CTers, research equals watching YouTube videos presented by other CTers. What's their motivation? I think they're against the war in Iraq. I personally believe Iraq is a combination of ego, opportunism, and miscalculation of the Administration. CTers want to villify the Administration for orchestrating 9/11 - killing thousands - for the sake of having pretext for invading Iraq. The pretext for invading Iraq was WMD, and the Administration has already been exposed on that. It would have been more effective simply to claim the terrorists were from and trained in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.

CTers are trapping themselves in their own logical fallacies and inconsistent arguments. They refute all evidence thinking the sheer quantity of their arguments is a substitute for validity and cogency. They apply their crude everyday observations to events so complex and never before seen happening on a very chaotic day. Somehow they are experts on everthing, and their claims become even more bizarre - RCing commercial passenger planes, shooting down a 4th plane instead of letting it reach it's target like the other 3, removing the passengers only to kill them somewhere else?! They'll be laughed at by history.