Within our continued investigation we have talked with more first responders, heroes, victims, and additional eyewitnesses.

In fact we have two additional confirmed previously published witnesses who definitively place the plane on the north side.

Their names will be revealed in due time.

This is rather significant since it is clear that not a single previously published witness in the entire investigative body of evidence specifically places the plane on the south side of the citgo which is why nobody has responded in this thread.


We have had a continuous dialog with one particular currently enlisted first responder who was part of the recovery team.

He confirms that he absolutely DID help April Gallop out of the alleged impact hole despite the fact that Russell has very publicly and authoritatively said that April's story is untrue based on no evidence whatsoever other than his personal incredulity.

Russell wasn't there.

This person WAS there and he has also seen The PentaCon.


He is one of the people in this image:



Here is his hand written response to the information we have presented:


Clearly he has questions about what happened.


Clearly he doesn't believe that we are "creepy" or that we are pushing lies.

His name has been protected since he is still currently enlisted.

I have recently talked with April. I am waiting for more responses from her via email.

Before you go crazy with this thread, I will give you a couple of hints.

1) Have you located the office where she was located? I have based on what she told me herself. It is not near the impact hole.
2) She does not recall hardly anything about it directly. She was told certain things in retrospect by others.
3) She does not recall any fire in her path out.
4) She does not show in any early photos in that area at all - that is because she did not go through triage. She was privately transported from the area of the outside of the building where her office was.
5) There is a photo of a man holding her son after coming out. You may want to try and get that to see what the background is.
6) If I do not get a response from her, I will post the list of questions and requests that have not been responded to since July, 15th.
7) You may also want to ask Dylan what April's response was when he showed her a photo of the exit hole and asked if that is where she came out.

I have tried very hard to avoid pushing this issue to protect her from this.

But since you want to manipulate and use people, event victims and suicide victims then I guess this also has to be brought out factually to make the point one more time - WHAT EYEWITNESSES SAID THEY SAW IS NOT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

There is emotional exaggeration or stories to protect their egos like Lagasse being blown into the car.

A PLANE DID NOT FLY OVER THE PENTAGON!!!!!

You and PFT are the greatest barriers to truth except for the government itself. Small time "filmmakers" trying to promote themselves with no regard for what actually happened.

Time is slowly whittling away at you.

Craig, can you pinpoint where April came out in the pics above?

Thank you.

What time were those images taken Russell?

Why are you showing an image of the alleged right wing damage when she was closer to the the alleged left wing hole?

The approximation of her position is indicated here:



A Pentagon renovation person told her she was 35 to 50 feet from the hole.

The recovery worker in this thread confirms her story and he was there.

You only refute it out of personal incredulity.

You were not there.

She was in corridor 5 in the E ring per her own words. Measure the distance for us.

Then through a photo time line and fire science explain anybody survivng the hole.

Tell us why April was not taken through triage as were the people taken through the DOOR near the heliport.

Lagasse was there and described in great detail seeing the plane hitting the building even to the degree of detailing the type of explosion.

DO YOU BELIEVE HIM - he was there?

Really Russell?

And what have you done?

The north side claim is now confirmed by 6 witnesses and directly refuted by none.

The fact that Lagasse embellished impact details even though he admitted he "flinched" and jumped into his car out of a "fear" does not discredit the corroborated north side detail.

I agree that due to trauma; April's word alone could be spun as unreliable in regards to this detail.

The fact is that a rescue worker WHO WAS THERE AND HELPED HER OUT OF THE HOLE definitively confirms this detail as accurate despite your desperate attempts to spin.

Corroboration Russell. Look it up.

No single photograph proves exactly where she did or did not come out.

The Bob Pugh footage is also not conclusive in this regard.

Terrorcell,

The defender of conspiracy at any cost with essentially no factual data.

Chose your friends more carefully and also get some evaluation.

Truth should be your first priority at all times. Blindly supporting people in dispersing non-truth is contributing to deception and preventing people from understanding what really happened.

That is NOT good.

Russell

You are lying.

We have a full 18 minute exclusive interview with her on The PentaCon DVD.

She was NOT in corridor 5.

She was in her office at her desk and she pushed the button to her computer just before the explosion.

She specifically reads the location as:

1 Echo 517.

Which means 1st floor E-ring 5th corridor but she was NOT "in" the corridor.

She was in her office.

She said at the time it was called the Adminstrative Office/Office under the Secretary of the Army.

Sounds a lot like office of the Administrative Assistant as indicated in the above schematic to me.

Since of course a renovation rep TOLD HER she was 35 to 50 feet from the alleged impact hole and since of course one of the people who HELPED RESCUE HER from that hole confirms this and since of course she was AT HER DESK and NOT "in the 5th corridor" it's quite clear whose research is more accurate here.

Let me try. He said Guides Who Are Dishonest (formery known as PFT) and CIT (Clueless Investigation Team) are liars? Did I get that right?

http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/witnesses.htm
says otherwise Craig. Why do you always try to make yourself out to be in much better "Pentagon" shape than you are? You know, you fool some people but not everybody falls for your slight of hand junk.

Russell,


Time will show I have already exposed the government's lie in regards to Shanksville. Since that 1 interview others have taken place. Choose your words wisely would be the advice I give unto you. You simply cannot insult the researchers and the witnesses and make claims that support the government's fairy tale when they are continuing to be proven wrong with each and every account not documented by someone working for the corporation.

Now I ask once more, what have you done to prove they are lying?


No factualy data? Multiple confirming eyewitness accounts is pretty factual. The fact that you claim a 757 tore through a trailer that looks warped from either intense heat or having something dropped on it is not factual.

Where are all the people who saw the smoking plane on it's way to the pentagon? I mean you support people like Mike Walter who says he saw the wings fold along side the body through a row of trees but never once mentions the plane smoking from clipping the light poles.......Any eyewitness mention the plane was smoking before impact Russ, any of them?

You are posting nothing but off topic nonsense and antagonistic ad hominem attacks again.

It's all you have and you are worthless to this discussion jrefer.

If you can find any accounts in that list that specifically place the plane south of the citgo there is a thread waiting for your reply here.

Good luck!

Calling me a liar is ridiculous as usual.

She told me specifically corridor 5 was where her office was located.

If she does not respond to the questions by tomorrow I will post the emails.

Even if your graphic is accurate - what is before her and the impact hole?

The door near the helipad where victims came out is the correct answer.

Does the witness you talked to have the photo of holding her son? Will you post it?

Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia ....was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. "There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud".

If you aren't lying you are woefully inaccurate.

Obviously her office isn't "in" the corridor Russell.

We sent April an email to join the discussion.

No image of April outside proves exactly where she exited.

Her story of coming out of the hole has been CONFIRMED from one of the people that helped rescue her.

We asked him REPEATEDLY if they came out of a door and he said no; they came out of the hole.

We were very specific in this regard.

You have NO BASIS WHATSOEVER to call her and him incorrect about this.

Off topic? You made an accusation about your North Side story and my reply was off topic? Did they adjust the dosage on your meds again??

where was the puff of white smoke?

from his description sounds like at impact.

Maybe Aldo & Craig can track him down for further confirmation.

Have you called Henry Ticknor?

Have you even bothered to try and get confirmation from him direct rather then relying on a 2nd hand story that doesn't even quote him?

Clearly not!

This is absolutely hilarious and a prime example of the terribly researched inaccurate information that you spew.

He was not a witness.

Apparently YOU are one of the "conspiracy theorists" he is talking about.

Thank you for the correction.

I was not aware of that later interview.

Ouch, that gotta sting...... :P


Sorry Russell, but you've been speaking down to me all day and you couldn't possibly be further out of line.

:D

D

How much time do you think the plane flew while emitting smoke?

Surely that cant be why there are relatively few 'smoke' accounts?

That and the massive gray background that is the Pentagon?

You're welcome.

Feel free to reply in this thread if you can find a single previously published account that specifically places the plane south of the citgo.

(even though mainstream media accounts are unconfirmed inaccurate hearsay as opposed to real evidence as Henry Ticknor demonstrated for us.)

We have 6 confirmed corroborated accounts that it was north of the citgo.

Oh and why is it that you have remained silent about uncovering evidence tampering?

I'd really appreciate a reply in this thread.

Here is the original source of the quote.

It is from a UU associated publication. Weird he said he didn't know where it came from though if it was his own organization.

http://www.uuworld.org/2002/01/feature3a.html

He didn't?

Seems like he did.

The issue he has is with conspiracy theorists like you assuming things from the article.

Again with your North Side Story? So tell me again O great one how my mentioning witnesses that aren't on your "payroll" was off topic while you mention your north Side story witnesses?

This really shows your true mentality (graphics and all).

I appreciate accurate data and there is no sting to it.

I obviously regard you as an equal just because you are a human being.

The "speaking down" to you is the recognition of your inabilty to think clearly and your absolute refusal to respond to things like gravity.

P.S. Thanks for solving Shanksville for us.

From where the lamp pole head may have been ingested causing a compressor stall and vapor burst I would imagine about .5 of a second.

Wouldn't it have lingered as shown in the security video?

For how long do you estimate it would linger?





Don't you think at least ONE witness account would mention this?

Craig,

As you know what witnesses say (or don't say) is not what did or did not happen.

I.E. There was a plane over the Annex and then I did not see a plane there. I was blown into the car. It was below the mound. It was AA. It was United Airlines.

I guess they faked a video and forgot to brief the witnesses to mention the vapor trail too. Thank goodness they remembered to tell the murderous witnesses to include the poles or we would have a real mess here.

The real problem in my mind is why the hell did they trim trees and bend fences to create "fake damage" and then fly the damned plane way to the North? Crazy.

It seems they could have told their own uniformed officers not to mention that, but as you say, despite the other details like the magical forward moving explosives and lamp pole shuffling they just "overlooked" CIT and the importance of it all.

They weren't aware of the number one conspiracy website and your pre-bragging for months either. They just missed it - it slipped through the cracks.

Good thing you and Aldo are here!!

The fact that witnesses are fallible does not account for why NONE of them mentioned a big fat smoke trail that would have lingered for many seconds.

When desperate you typically resort to listing things with rhetoric to make it all seem crazy in a blind effort to push a pure argument from incredulity.

This is a logical fallacy Russell, not rational logic.


Yes the operation is complex. Yes it's easy to make the conspiracy seem "crazy" no matter how it was pulled off.

Just ask the jrefers. They do it all the time. Just like you.

Of course there were MANY mistakes in this conspiracy and yes the people who make the effort to confirm or refute the details are going to find the mistakes.

I'm sure I've explained this to you but certainly the plane could have been accidentally off course so it "corrected" itself, hence the bank that your bud Mike Walter reported along with Penny Elgas and others.

In fact one of the new north side witnesses we have had a PERFECT view of the bank and describes it in detail.

The plane flew on the north side Russell.

More people saw it there and we are finding them.

Unfortunately for you and the government nobody has described it as being on the south side and having hit the poles.

Nobody. Or if they mention the poles it's not in regards to SEEING them hit but from deducing them on the ground after the fact like Brooks, Sucherman, and McGraw all admitted to us.

No doubt there are some spooks out there willing to lie but most will simply try to remain ambiguous to not incriminate themselves.

That's why you can't find a south side witness.

Fer cryin out loud you are a dense little bugger. I posted a list for you but you want to continue slinging your North Side Story™ and flyover wet dream.

For all those who made fun of my picture illustrating the plane...



Thank you Craig for posting that. :)

What Didn't Hit the Pentagon
http://gunsandbutter.net/archives.php?si=187

I found the show interesting.

Your sarcasm is duly noted. Be advised you are speaking out of ignorance for you have no idea what i have. you have only seen a little peek. ;)

So when Russell first posted this without saying where she was he was simply trying to claim she was "in the 5th corridor".

Obviously this is what he meant because he has not specified otherwise since I proved him wrong.

Readers please take note of Russell's M.O.

When you first read this he makes the claim with such authority that it's easy to accept as likely true.

But as it turns out he has no idea what he is talking about because we know she was at her desk and not "in the corridor".

Just like he authoritatively states that April's story is untrue to begin with or authoritatively suggests that all the citgo witnesses were hallucinating the same thing or in on a conspiracy within a conspiracy.

With Russell evidence is secondary as he shamelessly and consistently appeals to his own authority.

She has responded.

Will you post her response or should I?

She has given me permission so you might as well or I will for you by the end of the day tomorrow if you choose to conveniently disappear again.

Fair enough?

I expect to be attacked..because I am speaking the truth. I am not a groupie. And I am not looking to be popular. My life and that of my child was directly impacted by the attacks. Of course I want to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I live with the images of being inside the building. That doesn't go away. The official story is botched up. Certain people accounts are botched up. Therefore, it opens the door for all types of questions. There is nothing wrong with healthy forms of questioning to make deductions and draw conclusions. I support the Pentacon. And I respect that they stand behind their deductions.
I wasn't outside. I don't know if a plane hit or flew over the building. I was inside the building at the time of impact. I can only give the perspective of what it looked like walking out. I don't have the perspective of someone standing on the outside looking in. Therefore, I can only describe our exit location from an insider walking out not walking in.
So it doesn't make sense to show me pictures of the exit hole in the aftermath, or to ask me if a plane hit or flew over. I wasn't outside looking in.

Russell, I don't know what is worse a botched up official story, victims traumatized by the events of Sept 11th to have fallen in the cracks, the Pentagon being rebuilt in record time while victims lives still hang in the balance, individuals trying to bring credibility to their research by discrediting certain victims statements to make themselves look right, or those who capitalize off others victimization?????? ;)

I expect to be attacked..because I am speaking the truth. I am not a groupie. And I am not looking to be popular. My life and that of my child was directly impacted by the attacks. Of course I want to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I live with the images of being inside the building. That doesn't go away. The official story is botched up. Certain people accounts are botched up. Therefore, it opens the door for all types of questions. There is nothing wrong with healthy forms of questioning to make deductions and draw conclusions. I support the Pentacon. And I respect that they stand behind their deductions.
I wasn't outside. I don't know if a plane hit or flew over the building. I was inside the building at the time of impact. I can only give the perspective of what it looked like walking out. I don't have the perspective of someone standing on the outside looking in. Therefore, I can only describe our exit location from an insider walking out not walking in.
So it doesn't make sense to show me pictures of the exit hole in the aftermath, or to ask me if a plane hit or flew over. I wasn't outside looking in.

Russell, I don't know what is worse a botched up official story, victims traumatized by the events of Sept 11th to have fallen in the cracks, the Pentagon being rebuilt in record time while victims lives still hang in the balance, individuals trying to bring credibility to their research by discrediting certain victims statements to make themselves look right, or those who capitalize off others victimization?????? ;)

I know the rescue worker they make reference. He is a great guy! I would never compromise his identity or anyone who doesn't want their names mentioned. I am not out here to prove what I stated is true. I expect to be attacked because I speak the truth. I have a number of "first hand witnesses" who can confirm my statement. These are individuals who were inside the Pentagon with me on that day. While we maybe considered traumatized. I will just say it is amazing how we had the same inside view and remember the majority of the details. You don't forget an incident like Sept 11th.

I expect to be attacked..because I am speaking the truth. I am not a groupie. And I am not looking to be popular. My life and that of my child was directly impacted by the attacks. Of course I want to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I live with the images of being inside the building. That doesn't go away. The official story is botched up. Certain people accounts are botched up. Therefore, it opens the door for all types of questions. There is nothing wrong with healthy forms of questioning to make deductions and draw conclusions. I support the Pentacon. And I respect that they stand behind their deductions.
I wasn't outside. I don't know if a plane hit or flew over the building. I was inside the building at the time of impact. I can only give the perspective of what it looked like walking out. I don't have the perspective of someone standing on the outside looking in. Therefore, I can only describe our exit location from an insider walking out not walking in.
So it doesn't make sense to show me pictures of the exit hole in the aftermath, or to ask me if a plane hit or flew over. I wasn't outside looking in.

Russell, I don't know what is worse a botched up official story, victims traumatized by the events of Sept 11th to have fallen in the cracks, the Pentagon being rebuilt in record time while victims lives still hang in the balance, individuals trying to bring credibility to their research by discrediting certain victims statements to make themselves look right, or those who capitalize off others victimization?????? wink.gif