if the wtc attacks were meant to intentionally destroy the wtc, why fly 1 plane into them? because no one knew the towers would fall, so what is the probability that the "supposed" hijackers knew they would fall?, if they haddnt have fallen, the damaged section could have been replaced.
wich leaves a big mystery, the pentagon and "if it had happened" the white house as a psycological attack on the american people, hardly anyone died in the pentagon attack, and hardly anyone would have died in the whitehouse attack, so why hit the towers, "wich were buillt to withstand multiple impacts"?

Bin Laden thought that only the upper portions of the WTC would collapse after the airliners hit them. That the entire complex was destroyed was a bonus for him.

The attacks on 9/11 were intended to be somewhat like the Doolittle raid on Tokyo by the USA in 1942. 9/11 was inttended to be more of a morale thing than something that would damage the American infrastructure or economy. That al Qaeda was able to attack the most powerful country in the world certainly sends a message. It ended up being bad for the Taliban (backers of OBL) as shortly thereafter, the Northern Alliance backed by the USA drove them from power in Afghanistan.

Ranb

He explains it pretty well here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQyYuWXp3E8

Hardly anyone died at the Pentagon? Actually, 184 did. That's a lot of people...

Like Ranb said, the ultimate goal was to damage, and possibly destroy, the American infrastructure / economy. And, for a while, it worked.

I meant 184 people was nothing compared to the 2'000 + peoplewho died in he world trade center, and the 6'000 people who have died subsiquently in iraq and afghanistan

I see.

Loved your trailer, btw.

The Iraqi body count is at least ten times higher than you say. Iraqis are people too. You would not say such an absurd thing about the people who died at the Pentagon if you looked in the faces of families members like I did on 9/11. I was in Thailand at the time and even there, on a small island, there were people who had family working at the WTC who were in tears because they did not know if their loved ones were safe.

Ranb

edited for grammer

he wasn't meaning to me offensive or insentitive man

Then he is in the minority on this forum. Get a load of the DILLIGAF and Mistarage25555 posts here; http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=11240

Ranb

Nonsense. Osama and his goons were militarily and technologically incapable of 9-11. Unfortunately for the Bush Regime, the beans are spilled, and all the world knows for a fact that Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with 9-11 just as he said. All the world knows for a fact that 9-11 was an inside-job black flag operation on their own people by the US Government and a portion of the US Military and had been planned years in advance by the PNAC NeoCONs and their masters in the corporate New World Order. Even all you people know that OUR government did 9-11 despite your silly denials. Since Osama died in December 2001, he has been silent except for the faked Bush Regime audios/videos. Of course this was just a flimsy excuse to commit genocide on the Iraqi and Afghani people and steal the Iraqi oil. The New World Order does need their endless wars for endless profits to keep their international corporations and greedy billionaires happy don't they?

There were no military requirements for 911 to be pulled off and only minor technological ones (all pilots were qualified.)

Are you saying you believe what Bin Laden says simply because he says it or because it fits in with your theory best?

If you have proof it was Bin Laden then send it to the FBI. If it was actual proof we'll hear about it in the media.

Everything else are just guesses.

Other than learning the basics of flying and the layout/use of airliner cockpit controls, and putting 5 men on board with fake bombs, tear gas and box cutters (as proposed), what were the military and technological requirements for the attacks?

Ranb

With transponders turned off and no assistance from air traffic controllers, the novice 'alleged hijacker' pilots would have never been able to find their targets hundreds of miles away. There is no possible way inexperienced 767 or 757 pilots could have hit the towers, let alone the difficult un-necessary turn around the Pentagon. The very next day experienced airline pilots could not hit the towers in a 737 simulator exercise setup by simulator trainer Dan Govatos. Then we have the neutralizing of NORAD and the US Air Force, communication with codes with Air Force One, and somehow planting demolition charges in the Towers, WTC7, and the Pentagon. Those are military and technological difficulties which these clowns and their dying leader in Afghanistan were incapable of. The simultaneous crossing of flight paths over Stewart Air Force base at the exact same time was a technological difficulty they could not have accomplished. How did the 'terrorists' knock down the light poles south of them when the 757 they were allegedly flying went north of the Citgo and flew over the Pentagon while apparently somebody's demolition charges went off below them? For that matter, why is there no search for the Flight 77 aircraft and its 'alleged hijackers' who seemingly all got away? Because there were no 'hijackers'; just patsies and planted agents to fool the American people. To top it off, how did these 'DEAD alleged hijackers and their DEAD alleged leader' trick George W Bush into desperately fighting all attempts at 9-11 investigations for 441 days? Why were these 'terrorist hijackers ' so interested in helping the PNAC NeoCONs in giving them the New Pearl Harbor event they so fervently prayed for and why were these 'terrorist hijackers ' so interested in helping the Pentagon in killing all those investigators and accountants looking into the missing $2.3 trillion dollars in missing Defense Dept funds? Strange to say the least or maybe not so strange?

How did alleged hijackers get training on US Military bases? Why has there been no official investigation and the US Military collaborators punished? Another of the military/technological requirements which Osama and his alleged band of goons were incapable of performing was flying the alleged hijacked aircraft through radar coverage holes only the US Military and the FAA should have been aware of. Of course there are hundreds of impossibilities and improbabilities and technological difficulties in the Official Conspiracy Theory fantasy. What is blatantly obvious is that 9-11 was an inside-job carried out by OUR own government against OUR own people.

9/11 Whistleblower Richard Andrew Grove on the Meria Heller Show May 28th, 2006 - Transcript
http://xiandos.info/9/11_Whistleblower_Ric...06_-_Transcript
9-11: Holes in the Radar
http://www.team8plus.org/the-movement/radar/Radar.htm
Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2+ Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/trillions.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/...ain325985.shtml

Why don't we set up several 757 and 767 simulators with WTC Tower scenarios and maybe a Pentagon scenario and see how many experienced commercial pilots who support the Official Conspiracy Theory, if we can find any, who can complete the scenarios and actually hit the towers and the Pentagon as alleged in the real thing? I suppose we could use pilots who do not believe the Official Conspiracy Theory fantasy, but they would likely be accused of cheating.

This time let us set the speeds at the official NIST speeds of 382 knots (WTC1) 470 knots WTC2, and 911 Comm 530 mph (Pentagon) instead of the measely 300 knots of the original Tower simulation scenario, in which most of them still could not hit the Towers. This would be a true test of what these aircraft and alleged pilots were capable of.
Questions about the Official Version of 9/11 Events
http://www.vt911.org/final911Questions.htm
The Official Version of 9/11 Is A Hoax
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cf...ntid=790&page=2
9/11: All In One Chunk
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11BasicQuestions

You are making a mole hill into a mountain. How do you think pilots got around before transponders and without ground assistance? How do you think Lindberg got from New York to Paris? He knew his starting and end points, plotted a course and the required corrections, used a compass to determine direction, and then took off. When he came to the Atlantic, he had to trust his compass. When he flew over land in Europe, he also used landmarks and dead reckoning to reach Paris. Only a fool really believes a pilot can not find his way to the WTC, the some of the tallest buildings in the world. Your post probably sounds very stupid to pilots everywhere who actually know how to fly and navigate safely. It reminds me of people who call themselves expert sharpshooters, but they claim could not have shot a bolt action rifle three times in six seconds to hit a slowly moving target 90 yards away like Oswald did.

The hi-jackers knew the route the plane was taking and the time of day, this gave them a rough idea of where they were when they took control of the aircraft. Knowing these two things they did not have to know how to use most of the navigation instruments in the cockpit. All they had to do was point the plane in the right direction using the heading indicator then look for the WTC once they got near the coast. The sky was clear enough that day to navigate by landmarks.

As far as the plane that crashed into the Pentagon; all the pilot did was turn and dive at the same time. All pilots know how to do this; it is a very simple maneuver. I have some time in light planes; it is not hard to do. He pointed the plane at the very large target and flew into it. It does not matter if he exceeded the safe flying parameters of the airliner. All these terrorists needed to know how to do was fly the plane after take off, then crash it. They needed to know nothing more.

Ranb

Spreston, are you a pilot? I doubt you are because flying without any kind of electronical navigation system is pretty easy. If you really wanted to be safe without those systems all it takes is to to purchase some charts (I forgot what they are called but they are used for flying). I don't see why people think that flying is so hard, is it hard for them to belive it because they are Middle Eastern Men or something? I don't know but whatever the case is, flying a plane into a large object is much easier then some people are willing to admit.

Accurately hitting a target at 500+ mph while piloting a Boeing 767 is an extremely difficult task to perform.

The pentagon hit in particular defies all logic given the claimed pilot had absolutely no real time experience with that aircraft, or any other commercial aircraft in that class..except maybe as a passenger.

MM

I think it's Jeppesen's that you're thinking of.

And you're right. Flying is not difficult. Taking off and landing are the hard parts.

Like landing a 767 on the "runway" of floor 81 in WTC 2 and comming to a full stop in 1 second?

Deliberately crashing into a skyscraper is not "landing".

But was the 81st floor of WTC 2 the target?

If it was, the pilot was essentially trying to land a Boeing 767 at 500 mph...

Capt. Dan Govatos – Commercial airline pilot:

On 9/11, I was actually in the simulator training a class of new pilots. ... And we come out for a break and 9/11 is happening. Planes had hit the Tower. ... We were all -- just horrified and upset. ... We decided to go back into the simulator the next day. And after their sim training period, I said "Hey, guys, let's try something. Let's see if we can hit these buildings, like we saw happen." This was in a 737, a smaller, lot more maneuverable airplane. And so I set it up for these pilots. And, you know, keep in mind these pilots have many years of experience. I set up New York. And they all just took turns trying to hit the buildings. And they couldn't do it unless they slowed down to almost landing speeds.

They could not hit those buildings at the high speeds. They couldn't do it. ... .

People don't realize that to fly -- to hand fly an airliner at those speeds is extremely difficult. It's very hard to hand fly an airplane at those speeds, particularly if you're a novice. Because a novice that's learned -- all their experience is on little airplanes, they over-control everything. You got to understand going 300 knots in an airliner; and you move the controls like you would expect to do in a little airplane. Well, I mean you couldn't stand the G-forces. Everything has to be just finger-tip controls.
patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html#Govatos

I doubt they cared where they hit the towers, as long as they hit somewhere.

In any event, it is not "landing". It is "crashing", which is much easier.

So are you saying that the perpetrators (whoever they were) were just happy to hit the towers somewhere, anywhere?

So there is no significance to which floors on WTC 1 & 2 were actually hit.

Do you have proof of this, or are you just guessing?

Surely if it was "easy" to fly those planes into a building then you might as well pick a specific floor....

Buy Fligh Simulator and tell me how long it takes for you to fly one of the 757's into any building.

So then... if it were incredibly hard for pilots with thousands and thousands of hours of experience, wouldn't it be incredibly hard for anyone? Or were the government agents who flew the planes exempt from the difficulties? Or am I just missing something?

Since the 9-11 aircraft were likely each remotely flown by a highly skilled US Military technician from a command control aircraft which used its own military navigation system with the aid of an AWACS air traffic control operator vectoring them into their targets, it is doubtful these remote pilots experienced the same difficulties which novice Arab 'hijackers' might have met, encountering confusing cockpit instrument panels and touchy finger-tip controls and poor high altitude visual navigation and high G forces and immense inertia pulling them away from their targets. Also no worrying whatsoever that NORAD fighter aircraft would intercept them and end their illustrious careers before they reached their targets.

TWO Towers! You bet! The first hit did not even make it on LIVE, it did later by the Naudet Brothers but not as it was happening. MILLIONS were tuned into the first hit, due to the 1993 bombing. The second plane hitting the tower, was played over and over........

Coffeelover,,,,,, 9/11 was not just a false flag terrorist attack, but the NEW Age psychological one. Because - that is what we got, day after day, from the MSM - being script fed by the culprits.

I don't mean the difficulties of their skill level, I mean the issues of the airplane having a hard time making the maneuvers. Things like

and

How do these problems go away when you have someone in the military flying the planes, as opposed to someone who has had, again, "thousands and thousands of hours of experience" flying commercial airliners?

It's believed by many that the Boeing 767's were remote controlled. If so, a pre-programmed flightpath triggered when the aircraft reached it's start point would be quite achievable, given the aircraft 's navigation would not be dependent on the failings of a human pilot.

MM

The high G forces and immense inertia would not have been experienced by the remote operators flying the aircraft from other locations or by a pre-programmed flightpath. The high speed stalls are referenced to Flight 77 and we do not really know for sure the speeds encountered there. However it is highly unlikely that a novice human pilot sitting in the Flight 77 cockpit could have flown the aircraft along the alleged flight path into the Pentagon wall. It seems impossible that the alleged 757 could have entered the Pentagon 1st floor without gouging the lawn with its engines or destroying the cable spools beneath it.

Arrogant Deception - Or an Attempt to Expose a Cover-up?
http://www.kolumbus.fi/sy-k/pentagon/asce_en.htm

i couldnt find an accurate count of how many iraqis had died, i have friends from iraq and iran so im not been offensive, it was a figure of speech

im starting to get the feeling youve got it in for me, because on every one of my posts i can always find your smartarsed comments.

Ok, that seems reasonable enough. Thanks.

Your 6000 figure only demonstrates your ignorance. The Iraqis live in a nightmare world of death and despair created by George W Bush and his Daddy. Pretty serious stuff, considering they were innocent of any part of 9-11 don't you think? Do you think innocent children should suffer death and mutilation and roasting with napalm for the LIES of CORRUPT US politicians? Do you think REAL Americans should pretend to not see the suffering and death OUR nation has caused in this world? Especially on this forum where we are dealing with the death and suffering OUR government has delivered to OUR people?

These real pilots would seem to differ with you and they actually attempted to hit the towers in a realistic 737 simulator. Have you done so also? Why should we take your word over experienced commercial pilots and an experienced simulator instructor?

Pilots Discuss Difficulty of WTC Attacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm58cPH8L78

It sounds highly implausible that inexperienced hijackers were able to do what they did without directional assistance. It boggles the mind how those here who still try to endorse the official bush administration conspiracy can actually believe that it is a likely occurance that can be repeated several times over in one day, with precision.

To me it comes across as denial of accurate probabilities, and when you have everything else on top of that then it seems more to do with not being able to come to terms with the possibility that there are ruthless criminals running the economic infrastructure of the country. Standing to benefit from staging events like this to manipulate people.

I can understand not being able to come to terms with that reality, but to deny direct contradictions and ignore evidence of demolition is an example of ultimate ignorance.

"Casualties of the Illegal Iraqi War" now that to me doesnt demonstrate an official record now does it, im not ignorant but trying to find an official record is quite hard, i know the iraqi count would be higher than the u.s count.

and about the pilot thing, ive been on the microsoft flight simulator, (nothing like real world, i know) but it clearly shows the difference between controling and landing a c172, compared to a boeing 757 under pressure and fright.

About as official a count as it gets, as the US Military was on public record as not being interested in counting civilian casualties in the illegal War in Iraq. As I recall, Josef Stalin and Mao Tse Tung and Idi Amin and Adolph Hitler were not too interested in the numbers of their victims either. Just push them into mass graves and let the future historians worry about the count. From your rhetoric, I doubt if you really give a damn about civilian and children deaths in a US War of Genocide, anyway. It's just another video game, right? :lol: :lol:

Ha Ha!! Comparing a multi-million dollar professional flight simulator to a $59 computer game? :lol: :lol:

war isnt a video game, i do care about what goes on in iraq, but my speciality is 9/11 and the microsoft flight simulator is as realistic as a simulator, if you buy all the proper controlls, what i meant was, it clearly shows the difference between flying a cessena 172 compared to a boeing 757, i wasnt comparing the simulator to the game, have you played it, or being in a simulator?