View Full Version: Mercs and Rebels units

Imperium Total War > Arthurian: Total War > Mercs and Rebels units


Title: Mercs and Rebels units


Agraes - August 29, 2005 09:11 PM (GMT)
* Here we have to find others ideas, and to change generic names and standart unit 'heavy spearmen', an others, by more historical ones.
* I also need ideas for regional units (like Domnonian cavalry or Llydaw Blackshields)
* I added some images (mainly from DBA and Osprey) to some units. There are only here to show you an idea of those units, you can post some if you had.
Pictures will be remplaced by screenshots when the skins will be done.

MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS : (Ranika, Spongly, Agraes)

Frison Pirats*

Juts Warriors*

Wræccan
(Anglo-Saxon)
In these times, the lands of the Germanic tribes are in upheaval, with bands of freebooters travelling wherever there is battle in the hope of plunder, land and glory. These men are fierce and experienced warriors that many chieftains seek to hire to bolster their forces. Unfortunately they are treacherous and unreliable, but so long as they are used correctly can be a deadly attacking force on the battlefield, as well as an expendable one.

(Light Infantry with shields, swords, helms and javelins)

Gasraidha
(Irish)
Gasraidha (litteraly 'rabble') were generally criminals who had been kicked out of their tribes. They would be ill-equipped, unreliable, but available in large number for very little; they'd also actually be found more outside of Ireland than inside. While criminals were hired sometime in a pinch, most of the time law-abiding Gaels were more than happy to just kill them, so they usually took foreign employment.

Babuanna
(Irish)
Babuanna ('Paid Fighters') were professional mercenaries; they would be much better equipped and trained, and far less likely to flee, but also more rare, and more common in Ireland than outside of Ireland.

Horswealas
(Briton/Saxon)
Britons Horsemen recruited to fight for the Saxons. They had a higher Wergild than other Welshman living on Saxon land.

Agraes - October 13, 2005 01:10 PM (GMT)
Just to remind you we need much more rebels and mercs units ! Including for continental rebels (Burgondi, Aquitains, Syagrius, Alemani).

Ranika - October 13, 2005 01:18 PM (GMT)
Some stuff for Pictland;

Abardocc - This is what Gaels called Pictish peasantry and the like, including during wars. Could maybe appear as rebels in Pictish territories, as Pict peasantry/rioters/etc. Doesn't seem wholely Gaelic, probably some Pict influence

Cruithni Nudhacc - Picto-Gaelic term, vaguely, for 'Pict Warriors', usually used in reference to Pictish mercenaries. Nudhacc doesn't appear wholely Gaelic, probably a bit Pictish. Pictish mercenaries were present in use by the Gaels, and I'd presume maybe a few others.

Hathnudhacc - Again, Picto-Gaelic. Used in reference to wealthier Pictish mercenaries with superior equipment, or those Pictish warriors reoutfitted by their employer with superior equipment.

vortigern - October 13, 2005 05:38 PM (GMT)
Some tribes/groups you write like:

Frisian Pirates (Frisii)
Jutes or Jute Warriors
Burgundians (Burgundi)
Aquitanians (Aquitani)
Alamans (Alamanni)

Syagrius, that would be Franco-Romans?

You could use Anglians, Danes, other northern German folks.
Vandals, Goths.

Spongly - October 13, 2005 09:36 PM (GMT)
Gewissae might be an idea for another Germanic merc unit, representing the more disciplined foederati serving the Romans and Romano-British.

Agraes - October 17, 2005 02:16 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Frisian Pirates (Frisii)
Jutes or Jute Warriors
Burgundians (Burgundi)
Aquitanians (Aquitani)
Alamans (Alamanni)

Syagrius, that would be Franco-Romans?

You could use Anglians, Danes, other northern German folks.
Vandals, Goths.


Have you got specific ideas for each group ? I think 3-5 units per each will be perfect.

Syagrius kingdom will be hold by Romano-Gallics, Romano-Britons, Frankish and others foederati.

Agraes - October 19, 2005 11:47 AM (GMT)
For the Saxons mercs, we have :
- Wræccan
- a foederati like unit
and we need one more

For the Britons, I think mercs versions of the Saethwre, Milwre, Rhyfelwyr will fit, with a spearman merc and a heavy/medium cavalry merc.

Continental rebels kingdoms will need more units, about :
- 7 for the Aquitaini
- 6 for the Burgondi
- 6 for the Alemani
- 4 for the Frisii
- 6 for the Romano-Gallics
- 5 for the Alani
- 2 for the Vandali

but lesser work on the models wil be required for them.

Hross - November 26, 2005 02:11 AM (GMT)
Those horswealas would still be slaves, and have very low motivation or valour, just a point.

The Wraeccan sound promising, Hengest was apparently Wraeccan in the beginning! We are not dealing with unmotivated men at all, far from it, men of distinguished background with nothing to lose and everything to gain, trying to regain their name and honour after being exiled in the European homelands. They would not be there to serve their lord like other warriors, but many being of royal backgrounds themselves and outlaws would be trying to make a name for themselves again, so they would not even be affected by the death of a general.

Another Germanic group which COULD be made up of loose scum and untrained unmotivated warriors might be called wineleas, or friendless- people with no place in society and without status, basically anyone who was seeking a better life somewhere else. Poor farmers, slaves, freemen fallen on hardtimes, outlaws, unsuccessful brigands.

Alans, are they still in? (These were fairhaired people)
Alannic heavy lancers, similar to Sarmatians.
Alannic nobles, heavily armoured, round shield, javelins and longsword. Alannic Ronin...Parthian shot.
Alannic horsemen, unarmoured perhaps with chainmail vests but fast horse archers with fair close combat ability, sword and roundshield. Parthian shot.
Alannic chariots or wagons were welldocumented by Romans, heavy vehicles carrying several archers or spearmen, larger than those in RTW probably although those hugh spikes and scythed wheels in vanilla RTW are right-out! Many of these could have easily tagged along the wartrain and joined in with Germanic armies seeking plunder.
Alannic light lancers, armed with little armour, perhaps some kind of small helmet/mail byrnie, bow and then spear for contact. These represent the middle class. Parthian shot.

Vandals, horsemen: visored helmet, roundshield, longsword, recurved bow, chainmail. Parthian shot. Wellarmoured, bowmen with good handtohand-
Infantry: high morale, fast spearmen with javelins or even recurved bows if possible. Roundshields. visored helmets and mail. Good anti-cavalry with missile ability.

Frisians:
Churls: Fast, bonus in difficult terrain...Frisia was a land of marshes. Helmet, mail, shield, javelins and spear. No cloak or heavy clothing. These were the freemen, landowners, farmers. Can form schiltron? Steady reliable men.
Dikemen: poormen with little military background but excellent shots! Slingshot, perhaps sax knife on contact. Fast, bonus in difficult terrain.
Warbows: limited number, nobles with heavy armour and longbows, plus heavy axe or sword on contact. Specialist elite unit.
Frisian boatmen: used to fighting from ship or amphibious attacks from sea, dike or river. Fast, bonus in difficult terrain. Javelins, sax, shields. Morale and experience. Fast shock troops, little armour.

Agraes - November 26, 2005 01:57 PM (GMT)
Yep, Alans are still there. Did they were present in Britain too ? Nice suggestions ^_^

So, now Goths, Alemanni, Burgondi :P
And check Franks also.

Agraes - November 28, 2005 11:35 AM (GMT)
So, for germanic mercs, we have so far :

Wineleas
Another Germanic group which COULD be made up of loose scum and untrained unmotivated warriors might be called wineleas, or friendless- people with no place in society and without status, basically anyone who was seeking a better life somewhere else. Poor farmers, slaves, freemen fallen on hardtimes, outlaws, unsuccessful brigands.

Alannic heavy lancers
Similar to sarmatian in vanilla ?

Alannic nobles
heavily armoured, round shield, javelins and longsword

Alannic Ronin

Alannic horsemen
unarmoured perhaps with chainmail vests but fast horse archers with fair close combat ability, sword and roundshield. Parthian shot.

Alannic chariots
chariots or wagons were welldocumented by Romans, heavy vehicles carrying several archers or spearmen, larger than those in RTW probably although those hugh spikes and scythed wheels in vanilla RTW are right-out! Many of these could have easily tagged along the wartrain and joined in with Germanic armies seeking plunder.

Alannic light lancers
armed with little armour, perhaps some kind of small helmet/mail byrnie, bow and then spear for contact. These represent the middle class. Parthian shot.

Vandal horsemen
visored helmet, roundshield, longsword, recurved bow, chainmail. Parthian shot. Wellarmoured, bowmen with good handtohand-

Vandal Infantry
high morale, fast spearmen with javelins or even recurved bows if possible. Roundshields. visored helmets and mail. Good anti-cavalry with missile ability.
-> it's possible to give them round shield and bow, but something like the arweision (shield hold on the arm, not by the hand).

Frisian Churls: Fast, bonus in difficult terrain...Frisia was a land of marshes. Helmet, mail, shield, javelins and spear. No cloak or heavy clothing. These were the freemen, landowners, farmers. Can form schiltron? Steady reliable men.

Frisian Dikemen
poormen with little military background but excellent shots! Slingshot, perhaps sax knife on contact. Fast, bonus in difficult terrain.

Frisian Warbows
limited number, nobles with heavy armour and longbows, plus heavy axe or sword on contact. Specialist elite unit.

Frisian boatmen
used to fighting from ship or amphibious attacks from sea, dike or river. Fast, bonus in difficult terrain. Javelins, sax, shields. Morale and experience. Fast shock troops, little armour.

Ok for all. Now, can you try to find out pictures and do descriptions :)

Hross - November 29, 2005 04:06 AM (GMT)
Vandal infantry- I'm not sure that the armheld shield existed amongst the Germanics, even the Steppe influences from the Alans were in themselves very similar to Germanic fighters, the light 'targe' armheld shield never really infiltrated the west or north from the Steppes. The Germanic roundshield was similiar to the old Greek one, it was pretty big and ugly, intending to act as armour. Although bowmen cannot use handheld shields whilst using the bow....this is a problem for the model. The shield can perhaps be slung over the back? Brought out in hand to hand combat? The shield bonus can still be counted in to the defence for this unit though I take it? If so, then no worries, problem solved.

Agraes - November 29, 2005 10:09 AM (GMT)
We have 3 solutions :
- shield on the arm
- shield on the back, but would stay always on the back :rolleyes:
- javelins with big shield

Here some germanics, how do you like them ?
user posted image
Burgonds

user posted image
Franks

user posted image
Vandal and Alan

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

vortigern - December 1, 2005 10:21 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Hross @ Nov 25 2005, 09:11 PM)


Dikemen: poormen with little military background but excellent shots! Slingshot, perhaps sax knife on contact. Fast, bonus in difficult terrain.
Warbows: limited number, nobles with heavy armour and longbows, plus heavy axe or sword on contact. Specialist elite unit.
Frisian boatmen: used to fighting from ship or amphibious attacks from sea, dike or river. Fast, bonus in difficult terrain. Javelins, sax, shields. Morale and experience. Fast shock troops, little armour.

QUOTE
The Wraeccan sound promising, Hengest was apparently Wraeccan in the beginning!
Hengist was a Jute. I agree with the description of his background. He belonged to the retinue of a Danish prince who was murdered, and murdered a Frisian king in revenge, before being exiled to Britain.
Wraeccan? Wot's that?
QUOTE
Alans, are they still in? (These were fairhaired people)

says who?????
QUOTE
Alannic heavy lancers, similar to Sarmatians.
Alannic nobles, heavily armoured, round shield, javelins and longsword. Alannic Ronin...Parthian shot.
Alannic horsemen, unarmoured perhaps with chainmail vests but fast horse archers with fair close combat ability, sword and roundshield. Parthian shot.

Alans were serving the Roman as cavalry, and should be seen as equipped as such, though of course with their own skills and technigues. They did not look like Scythians! Any non-Roman Alan cavalry could be with the Huns, but these would never have been anywhere our area of operations.
Alan Ronin? That's Japanese... Alanic (one n) cavalry both served as light cavalry with bows, as well as heavy cavalry, both with lances and bows.
QUOTE
Alannic chariots or wagons were welldocumented by Romans, heavy vehicles carrying several archers or spearmen, larger than those in RTW probably although those hugh spikes and scythed wheels in vanilla RTW are right-out!

All such chariots are right out! That's fantasy! that's not 'well-documented at all!!
QUOTE
Vandals, horsemen: visored helmet, roundshield, longsword, recurved bow, chainmail. Parthian shot. Well armoured, bowmen with good handtohand-
Infantry: high morale, fast spearmen with javelins or even recurved bows if possible. Roundshields. visored helmets and mail. Good anti-cavalry with missile ability.

Why a visored helmet? That's Viking stuff. Spangenhelm, cheekplates or not, nasal, that's all. No bows, no Parthian shot. Vandals were spearmen.
QUOTE
Frisians:
Churls: Fast, bonus in difficult terrain...Frisia was a land of marshes. Helmet, mail, shield, javelins and spear. No cloak or heavy clothing. These were the freemen, landowners, farmers. Can form schiltron? Steady reliable men.

No schiltron, that's late medieval stuff. You mean shield wall perhaps?
Frisians were not so much farmers, landowners, but much more fishermen, traders. Frisia was very much overrun by the sea with each big tide. Boatmen!

Agraes - December 2, 2005 09:18 AM (GMT)
As I know, there was an Alannic garnison in what is now Orléans, and this city is on our map ;)

I guess also Hross means by schiltron the existing formation in BI.

Agraes - December 17, 2005 10:56 PM (GMT)
Hross, comments on those following pictures (and on the other ones) ?

user posted image
Goth.

user posted image
Frank and Goth.

user posted image
Alano-Sarmatians ?

user posted image
Goths and Sarmatian.

user posted image
Goths at Châlons.

user posted image
Goths ? Burgonds ?


Hross - December 23, 2005 02:21 AM (GMT)
Well, you're hand drawn guys... horseman seems okay, you're frank looks like a Dane or assumably a Jute, your Goth...nah. The Osprey pics look spot-on, Alans and Sarmatians especially.

Well, Vortigern to clear up some stuff-

I ad libbed a good deal of those units based on familiarity with those cultures, I was asked to make units were there were none, in that for a game we represent certain military types, i have been forced to be creative and select certain cultural facets to emphasises in these armies.
Wrecca, these men like Hengest seem to be called Wrecca in a poetic sense and it defined more of an advanced romantic concept of an outlawed noble (a Ronin if you like) rather than the straigthforward meaning of a 'wretch'. The latter meaning could be used but in AS heroic poetry it occurs mostly in referring to a rough hero, a wretch of a hero....Tolkien wrote a good deal about this.

When I said Alannic Ronin I was obviously using the word in comparison, that these could be a kind of Ronin among the Alans... Sorry for being unclear.
That the Alans used wagons or a kind of chariot and were fairhaired is documented in Mediterrenean sources, Herodotus amongst others states that the Alans were blond haired and remarkably tall, especially for Iranian speaking-peoples, they wore their clothes and their short hair like the Scythians, at least in Herodotus' day. Later accounts support some of these facts. The Huns are also referred to as using wagons and 'chariots' in a similar manner, as I said they did not look like the stuff in RTW... Alans although in Roman service were not overrepresented there either, all tribes participated in Roman service at least at some point or in some manner in those times. That the Alans were nowhere near this realm of conflict has nothing to do with me...I didn't decide to have them. It is certainly unlikely that Alans were in the English invasion forces, yet place names do suggest that Vandals were present (presumably those from the western Baltic coast.) These were not the same gang that ended up in Africa who were heavily Alannicised.

To say that the Vandals were spearmen is like saying the English were soldiers. It is a rather generic, unspecific and untelling fact that the Vandals were spearmen. Yet there is no doubt that the Vandals, Goths and other major tribes of at least Theoderic's time were heavily influenced by Steppe warfare and had learnt the Parthian shot. The documented hostage taking of Germanic nobleborn to be raised and trained in Hunnic customs alone is enough to merit the Vandal adoption of Steppe warfare, the fact the Vandals were heavily intermixed with the Alans speaks for itself. A visored helmet, I don't mean a visor in the medieval sense but took the reference from one of the osprey illustrations explanations that was placed here. Can't remember which I'm afraid, but it's not unusual to talk of visors in dark age helmets, perhaps they could also/better be described as a rim?

Hengest may not have been a Jute at all, but an Anglian, and his Danish prince was a HalfDanish chief, i.e. a Jutish Earl.

Schiltroms - I guessed this- I made it up- but they were used by barbarian peoples, even the Picts used Schiltrom formations. With swordsmen placed in front of the spearmen so that anyone making it past the spears would find the swordmen there to guard the spearman. The Netherlands had long had contact with Rome, many Batavians made up much of the Germanic garrisoning of Roman Britain. They may well have been the contact which brought Hengest to Britain from the fighting at Finnesburgh. They also had continual confrontations with elite germanic invaders, Hengest's gang, Danes, Heruli, Franks etc. The manner of fighting in those territories would have made a shield wall rather pointless whereas a defensive formation based on an anti-ambush formation such as the Picts used (for the same terrain reasons) points to a schiltrom being a decent guess, in my view.

Farming did take place in Frisia and the wider Netherlands and my point was more that this proposed unit would be made up of men of that recognisable class. Not every Frisian was a fisherman undermining the layering of social status. Frisian society seems to have been highly stratified, which implies a class system based on land ownership and taxable income which goes against the idea of a monoclass fishing economy. That fishing and the sea was essential to Frisian culture is not however in question.

Yours,
Hross


Agraes - December 23, 2005 08:47 AM (GMT)
Nice to see you again Hross ;)

With the new map, we loose part of the continental germans. Some are still active there : they were Frisians settled in what would became Domnonée, and the Britons of Riwallon had to fight them.

So, seeing our new area - and the fact that Franks are now a strong rebel faction - we need :
- Frisian units descriptions (we can just use your previous list)
- Frankish units, up to 10 units (you describe 2 axemen on the frankish topic, we will keep them)
- eventually Alans in Orléans, acting as Roman foederati
- others germans if you think they are accurate in the map ;)




Hosted for free by zIFBoards