*Ahem*

There should be tension between the upper and lowers cities, and some of that should show through into Penn Racing, as that has Upper and Lower city members. Lance should have school (as in, BE THERE), and not always be 'just Artha's little Bro'. He should get a crush on a girl from school/the track, and ask Kitt for advice 'cause she's a girl, thereby upsetting macho-older-brother Artha. (Or some such 'it's not all about my big bro' scenario.)

Parm should get annoyed that he comes up with BRILLIANT ideas and all anyone does is roll their eyes. He should act like the genius he's supposed to be, and take his services to where they'll get USED properly, and he'll get paid for it. Pyrrah should fall for him, making Artha jealous, and giving Parm ANOTHER reason to get annoyed at the immature little brat.

Kitt should realise that if Artha is developing a new chara flaw every week and learns to overcome it during the length of an episode, then he has Personality Issues. She should be allowed to become more than just 'Pretty Love Interest'. She should show pride in her toughened roots, and think less of Artha, Parm, and Lance 'cause up until now, they've had it easy. Artha never even WANTED to race, and she's probably been working towards a racing career her whole life. Suddenly he's there, Big and Bright and Talented, and she's faced with still more competition, someone who could prevent her chances at elite, and she's just gonna mollycoddle him? No likely!

And Moordryd! What? He dislikes Artha because Artha's daddy beat him in a fight? Oooooooooooo. He has no real reason to hate Artha, he doesn't even know that he's the DB. They've just got him doing it because he's the Bad Guy. If he's supposed to be jealous of the fact that Artha's got a caring father and loyal friends, then they should SHOW US THAT. Let us see that Moordryd missed out, and that Artha is an insensitive prick for not realising that there is more to Moordryd than just 'Son of rich guy who likes to cheat'. He is really 'Son of rich guy, yet is out stealing dragons?' ???? Why does his father make his Only Son do this? Why doesn't he just hire someone? Moordryd should be shown as someone who has REAL motivation, because I'm sure if they dig deep enough, there'd be plenty there to find. And he's a guy who can command a crew comprised of members Older Than Him. He's a Sun City boy who's living life on the streets of Down City, and according to the first ep "Don't tell me how to steal dragons, Father. My Down City Crew and I have been doing for you for most of my life!". (Again, Why?) He's tough-as-nails, built to last, Real Hero material, if the wonderful Penn Racing team would try being DECENT towards him.

I like the show, the idea, the setting, and some of the charas *quirks suggestive eyebrow at Moordryd*. I just wish I were writing it!

Anyway. You guys say?

I just have to say...PARM/PYRRAH SO CUTE!!!!! :wub: They're my two favourite characters, and they have cool voices. Now that you're put the idea in my head I DEMAND to see that pairing! It BETTER happen :angry: . Personally I don't have a problem with Artha...besides his voice <_< so I don't think everyone should abandon him for good, just for a little while so we can have a nice angst theme going on :P ANGST PEOPLE ANGST! I DEMAND ANGST AND PARM/PYRRAH!!!

Well, I can't think of anything to add at the moment. For some reaosn I think it would be really cute for Lance to become friend with Pyrrah's little brother with the lisp :P , have some friends his OWN age ya know.

Yeah! Bring back the kid with the lisp! There's another kid on the Dragon Flares crew, too. And there's a character called Spratt with funky green hair who's supposed to be Lance's bestie from school.

Did I say abandon Artha? I just think he has some serious problems, is all.

"Lance should have school (as in, BE THERE), and not always be 'just Artha's little Bro'. He should get a crush on a girl from school/the track, and ask Kitt for advice 'cause she's a girl, thereby upsetting macho-older-brother Artha. (Or some such 'it's not all about my big bro' scenario.)"

Somehow LF, I don't think Lance is going to fall for a girl anytime soon, netalone ask Kitt for advice

"Or some such 'it's not all about my big bro' scenario." :P

Lance has a life too, (we assume). Just 'cause he's not his brother's age doesn't mean he doesn't have friends of his own.

There must be something in the Tassie water that makes guys 'like' girls at a much younger age. :blink:

I wasn't saying that Lance doesn't have a life, I was saying that after the way that he acted when Kitt asked to be apart of the team that I don't think he's going to fall for a girl soon

And I wasn't saying he has to fall in love, I'm just trying to point out that his existence should consist of more than just 'where is Artha going today?'

Nothing wrong with looking up to your older brother, though Artha may not be the best person to look up to...

There's a difference between looking up to someone and existing solely to 'help' them.

The entire cast is FIXATED on the Dragon Booster.

They should get lives.

Kitt/Pyrrah, Connor/Word, Lance/school, Moordryd/Cain (bestfriend slash), and Parm consoling left-alone Artha. It'd work.

Oh, yes. And PERFECT for the target audience, not to mention statistically possible.
:P

Was it statistically possible that the HeroicGang of best friends would all have different colours of dragons to form all the main colours of draconium?

I rest my case.

(And I'm sorry, but with only Kitt and Pyrrah as Main Female Characters, it's hard NOT to slash unless you're going to write Mary-Sue.)

Every one in the city has dragons with different bone colours! Even if Lance hadn't had Blue energy, Beau could have taken it from Katah.

But it's THEIR LITTLE GANG. Two brothers, Best Friend, Love Interest. Is it REALLY likely that they're all going to have different dragon-bone energy? Let's say there are just four bone colours, and four people. Odds that all are going to be different? I believe it's a one in sixteen possibility, unless my math's bad. Let there be more than four bone colours, and it decreases exponentially.

They SHOULD have taken it from Khatah. Coincidence can be overdone.

Don't they have more then one type of energy, even though one is thier strongest one?

Well, the gold is, of course, the strongest and does EVERYTHING (eyeroll), but red's for racing, black for evil psychic powers, green for strength, blue for water/mental speed, purple for teamwork, etc. Apparently the goal of the Dragon Booster is to stop the shattering of dragon energies and put all the colours back together. I'm going to point out just why I think that's stupid later.

Not to my knowledge, apart from Beau and other speshul dragons.

Maybe it was just to illustrate that Kitt made them a good team.

And there are many other bone colours, like orange, white, etc. Plus, the dragons they have suit the riders in a logical way.

Artha and Beau. I'm sure I don't need to explain.

Kitt and Wyldfyr. Wyldfyr's red, red is fast, Kitt likes fast, so she has a Red Bone Dragon.

Parm and Cyrano. Parm isn't into racing, or dragon sports of any type. Green Bone dragons are strong, and I'd guess good for traveling comfortably, without needing strenuous exercise.

Lance and Fracshun. I'm guessing Conor chose this dragon for Lance, and we haven't even seen a close up of it yet. But I'm guessing that, although not as fast as a Red Bone Dragon, it seems like the right bone colour to start a young racer off on.

Yes, the colours do suit their riders, but the point I believe I was trying to make earlier was that to have different colours for each member of the team is, frankly, extremely unlikely, heavily stretching coincidence. Normal friendship dynamics suggest that we pick people similar to us in terms of temperament, interests, etc., rather than the rainbow colours of Penn Racing. That sort of coincidence? Is BAD.

You're right, Sarah. It is not a good coincidence. They should have made some of the gang have the same colour.

But then they'd have two similar characters. That wouldn't be good, at least not in a kids show.

Are Pyrrah and Kitt identical characters? Are Moordryd and Word?

No, of course not.

Crossing over to Harry Potter, the main characters there, while they all value bravery above most other qualities, are nothing like each other.

It's stretching coincidence. And it's for no good reason. And the whole concept of "rainbow colours coming together" is too Captain Planet for me.

No, but imagine if both Kitt and Pyrrah were on the Penn racing team, or if there were two charas with green bone dragons, and so on. It'd get tiring to see two charas with so much in common both trying to be different and in character.

I do see the writers' reasons for having the characters so distinct, but it's still an irritating coincidence. IMO they COULD have managed to make characters of the same bone colour fairly distinct. As you said, there are a LOT of differences between Kitt and Pyrrah, and there are a LOT of different ways they could have made dragon design and costume design and character design different. Again, look at the characters we know of the same bone colour. Phistis and Parmon, Pyrrah and Kitt, Moordryd and Word and Cain, Lance and Khatah and Mortis/Connor. It's lazy writing on the part of the scriptwriters, IMO, though of course another Speshul Prophecy would have only made things worse.

Going back to Harry Potter, most of the characters there have the equivalent dragon-bone colour of red (I'd assume Slytherin = black, Hufflepuff = green, Ravenclaw = blue), and they're still sufficiently different (on a basis of Harry/Ron/Hermione/Ginny/Draco = Artha/Kitt/Parm/Lance/Moordryd, only the HP characters are Much Better).

I know I'm completely barging in and probably changing the subject but the thing I'd like to see the most on Dragon Booster?

Word and Moordryd wax between their eyebrows! OH MY GOD that annoys me... I get this twitching figner thing reaching for the tweezers every time I see it...

I adore Moordryd yes (he is a little young for me *pets him* but I can keep him in my special magic fandom box with the other too young or too old characters) but really that character design flaw gives me a nervous tic.

***WARNING Long post.. sorry, i get carried away***

Character things now *puts of official character creator's hat* I have actual schooling in this area, lots of it, I was going to have a career as a cartoon character designer, but then I went into comics for pretty much the reason I'm going to explain in conjunction witht he characters crossover ans bone colour thing...
Anythign written with children in mind has this set of stereotypes that you'll dig up in just about every GOOD cartoon. it works, it covers all your fandoms, and it's popular.
You have hero boy, usually young and bland with lots to learn. Artha, Harry, Simba, Yugi, Aladdin etc. Appeals to younger kids, because they can put themselves in the hero's shoes.
Then there's Love intrest, firey, independant, yet also soft and vulnerable. Mary Sue bait and also great for little girls. (not me, I was a villian fan since I was four...) Kitt, (Harry potter doesn't actually have one of these. I am VERY grateful, they're annoying- closest thing is Cho Chang) Nala, Tea, Jasmine
There's the brain, or the drive, depending on your cartoon/feature. solves problems the hero wouldn't understand, or n the flipside, does the dirty work, useful to keep the hero's hands clean. Parm, Hermione, Pumbaa, Tristan, Abu
Comic relief, along for the ride, appeals to the larger community of adults and people who like good guys but hate GOOD guys. Lance, Ron, Timon, Joey, Genie
And my favourite and most versatile of all catogories is your antagonist. Gives the story a place to go, and the hero someone to smite, hurt and humiliate. not always your major villian, Dragon Booster is a good example, and so is Harry potter. Your antagonist is just he villian who does the most and is on a more personal level with the hero then the man bad guy. Moordryd, Draco, Scar, (Yu-i-Oh! changes theirs a lot. My favourite was Pegasus *squee!*) Jafar.

There isn't much room to move around in with these sterotypes blocking you in, unless you have the fun of being the villain's designer *quivers with delight at the idea* Althoguh you have to make him beatable, over and over... And remember, it was probably written with a younger audience in mind. STUPID Western cartoon writers still haven't cottoned on their major audience is teenagers and sad individuals liek me that never grow up...

Bone colour.
Spectrum is handy, why not use it? Artists tend to be a little colour obsessive, I know I am, and looka t the instensity and vibrncy of the colour in Dragon Booster, it's pretty fantastic, so i think it's just a personal quirk.
On the website it lists all of the bone colours, but off to one side, if you can find it (Sorry< i can't remember where it says, I think it's in Mythology) it says there are five MAJOR colours (once the colours were split from gold) Gold it's self, Red, Green, Blue and Black, which just HAPPEN to be Artha and his friends. *slaps face* surprise surprise. Moordryd is black, obviously, which raises interestign questions... very interesting questions indeed...

I LOVE Moordryd (and I'm too old for him too!). I kind of like the single brow, he's still purdyful, even if he has this thing that society frowns on.

Yes, you have stereotypes, but people change. I'm not talking Evil Overlord one minute, sees a miracle and becomes sweet, kind hero type the next, I'm talking subtle changes, slowly maturing, and that-sort-of-stuff.

And you can handle the cliches in many different ways. I prefer Aladin to Artha, for instance.

Artha = Unbearable. Aladin = Passable, likable main hero.

*Squeeges Moordryd*

It all depends on how much free time the character designer is allowed, Disney takes years to make one of their cartoons, well, they used to before Mike Eisner *hisses* Dragon Booster didn't hav emuch time, it was given the production green light in 2003, and their production team is only 70 strong. *hugs them all* I love independance in animation!
Aladdin was kinda meant to be rougueish, Artha seems to be INTENDED to be a prat. They all have one overlying trait and let you figure out the rest yourself

I disagree that Artha was intended to be a prat.

If he WAS, then it makes the story fundamentally contradictory. Why choose this prat to be the Chosen Once? That's even more illogical than prophecies normally are.

Also, while he sees the error of SOME of his prat-like ways, he still isn't condemned by the narrative for certain other acts--for example, Kitt still seemed attracted to him after "Fanning the Flames," Parm sticks by him despite the casual cruelty shown in "Horn of Libris" and "The Stand," and Mortis/Connor shows HUGE patience in him. To me, that makes him more of a Canon Sue who is favoured by the writers rather than a character actually set up to have real, human, failings, and that's why most of us here hate him.

Connor/Mortis is excusable, becuase he's his son, but the rest? Nope.

I don't think Artha was meant to be a prat, because, as Sarah said, there's no way a stinky bratt is supposed to be the chosen one, otherwise they'd have gone all out and used a character like Moordryd, which would make for a great story.

I wasn't being serious! *looks a bit alarmed*

Being serious I'd say they're trying to make him boy. Typical younger boy- after all that's the target audience, and it affords the same friendship and paternal fondness shown

Agree with you there. Whether he's a prat or whether he's not doesn't mean that the other characters should not stick by him. After all, everyone makes mistakes and whether they realise and rectify them or not it shouldn't mean their friends should give up on them. If they did, it would just make them jerks and trash thier characters.

Yeah, but Kitt still having a CRUSH on him? Parm sticking around getting USED for his abilities? There's a line between "being a jerk" and "being a sensible, developed character," and I think thanks to Prat!Artha the writers have crossed that line in the wrong direction. Sure, Parm et al might want to save the WORLD, but if they were anything like as intelligent/feisty/independent as they seem to be intended to be, they'd have stopped seeing whatever it is they see in Artha a long time ago.

Maybe you just don't see what they see.

Do you? ;)

Yes, definitely younger. According to a press release I read from The Story Hat, the primary target audience for Dragon Booster is boys age 6-11. It's unfortunate, but at least around here, TV animation is generally believed to be for kids only (i.e., under 12). Once in a while a show like "The Simpsons" or "South Park" comes along that appeals to an older audience but there aren't very many of those. With the appeal of CG movies like Shrek and the Pixar movies that have attracted a broader and older audience, they've tried two prime time CG animated TV series here (one of which was done by Dreamworks), but both failed to catch on and they pulled the plug on them after just a few months. They just have a lot of trouble getting past the stigma that TV animation is just for kids.

Have you ever seen Disney's "Gargoyles" series? I mentioned this to LightningFlash in one of the other threads. It was something completely different for Disney and really broke out of the mold of the typical animated series you described. For example, there was no comedy side kick character and hardly any comic relief. It maintained a fairly serious and somewhat dark tone throughout. In one episode, a character is shot with a gun and bleeds. That's something you don't see outside of anime. The show was popular enough that it spawned an annual fan convention that continues to this day. As far as I know, this is the only Disney TV animated series that has a dedicated fan convention. And they're still having conventions even though it's been almost 10 years since the last episode aired. A highly recommended show.

Not entirely sure, but he is not as bad as you seem to think he is. Besides that, what you said about being cruely mean to Parm, I just remembered I did almost the exact same thing to a friend at the show. I made her go on this ride that went really high and she's afraid of heights so she spent the whole time hiding in the bottom of the carriage... and it was funny. Therefore I am biased and a bum... So if you feel like that please feel free to spork me too :)

It was crueler than your act, as your friend must have assented, and you didn't lift her yourself on top of a narrow beam, AND you've actually admitted it was cruel. Not to mention there are other instances of Artha/Parm cruelty, eg. in "The Stand". I don't recall Parm ever getting anything close to the gratitude he deserves, and there really isn't much excuse for Kitt besides hormones.

I suppose my main peeve is that Artha is so far away from being heroic in any sense besides the SPESHUL one it gets on my nerves--characters mysteriously given powers should show that they deserve them. He has a LOT of personality flaws, and, given the opportunity I, despite my lack of an intellect comparable to Parm the Plot Device's presumed level, wouldn't hang around Artha. I'm sure he'll come through in the end, but he'll have to go through some MAJOR personality changes for me to accept him as anything other than a spoiled Canon Sue who cheated his way to the top with uber powers that he didn't deserve.

I agree. I wouldn't hang out with Artha either. They probably won't change him enough to be a good character, which is a shame.

I think the point of using someone like Artha is that he isn't perfect. And you're right he probably does need to change a bit. Which I hope will happen, otherwise it'll kindof defeat the purpose. AND Parm does deserve more gratitude. My point was that still ain't good enough reason to drop him. Aside from which I don't think that would be something Parm would do, though a bit of him yelling at Artha for being a jerk wouldn't go astray.

Cartoons have a lot of self control. I'd have flipped after the first day of hanging with Artha. ;)

The thing is, Artha's supposed to be Teh Chosen One. I'm not saying he needs to be perfect, oh no, but he needs to show that he could somehow have deserved his powers. That he's more than just a shiny amulet and a pretty dragon. That he has some quality that's NOT about his powers but about his inner self, that he shows some heroism from the inside out. Because at the moment he's a selfish prat who's coasting on his powers, and unless his personality undergoes a total revolution that's not going to change. (And I don't think it will.)

And also, his flaws are not the sort of flaws that well-developed characters possess; they are flaws that indicate the writers didn't think him through properly. Parmon would have made an interesting Chosen One, with his tendency towards compliance and his hardworking attitude; Moordryd, with that conflict with his father and his struggle to prove himself would also have been interesting; giving powers to a ten-year-old or even an over-forty-year-old would have at least broken some cliches; even SpunkyGirl Generic has more redeeming qualities than Artha. Our Canon Sue, on the other hand, is boring and irritating and cocky and a rather terrible person.