Cartoons nowadays are a sad, sorry shell of there former selves. With the drivel thrown on television for like the last.....15, 16 years, is it any wonder that there is such a demand for the toons of the 1980's? At the risk of sounding like a whining nag-waxing sentimental over a forgone decade-let's travel back to a time that filled kids minds with wonder, and excitement: the 1980's. This was the time in which creativity, great storywriting and innovative animation finally shook hands. In the early 80's-81 I think-the FCC relaxed restrictions on cartoons. Before this time period, you couldn't have a cartoon based on a toy-line or merchandising. This, combined with the "economy style" of animation (having the same "pull-by" backgrounds repeated over and over as a character walks down the street, having characters stand still-while only moving mouths and eyes, and drawing less fingers on a characters hand -or showing limited detail, made for lukewarm toons.) Although there were many great cartoons in the 60's/70's (with superhero adaptions, futuristic bad-guys, slapstick comedy and goofy sidekicks-like Cpt. Caveman and Jabberjaw) they didn't come close to matching the wondrous imagination of the kid that was watching them. It wasn't really until 1983, that Masters of the Universe would produce anything close. Although MOTU's animation was lacking (compared to the series' that would follow) it featured detailed backgrounds, excellent storylines and fantastic characters. Although the animation left much to be desired, it was still a huge step forward for the dull american animation. Facial expressions were shown more, battles between characters were shown-within the "limited violence" standards, and even had a touch of special effects-when Adam changes to He-man (although the effects paled in comparison to those seen in sci-fi films like Star Wars or TRON). Soon a wave of toy and/or merchandise-related shows flooded the American market. Transformers, G.I. Joe, Gobots, Strawberry Shortcake, Rainbowbrite, My little Pony and many others all had their start this way. Was this shamless product promotion? probably. Was this a cheap trick to get american parents to empty their wallets? Yes. All of this...greed...however would lead to great feats in Animation. As toys became more and more detailed, their manufacturers wanted shows that would represent this. The attention to detail in Anime (which-largely dormant since the 60's-began steadily increasing in American Markets) did not go unnoticed. This (combined with cost savings) caused some companies to move the animation overseas to Japan. Others hired more in-house Japanese animators. What followed would revolutionize cartoons. Anime's stunning attention to background detail (glistening water, reflections in glass) and Machines (mecha, vehicles, ect) combined with American attention to characters in both cartoons and comics (facial expression, superhero-like characters) made for great shows. G.I. Joe, Visionaries and C.O.P.S. and M.a.s.k. were a few. Thundercats (created by Ted Wolf and Rankin/Bass) was one of the few cartoons not based off a toy line. The cartoon was designed first and Toy rights were later marketed to LJN. Pacific animation Corporation did the animation for Thundercats. For it's time, it was probably the best American animated show. Slow motion fight sequences, blurring characters as they ran, spectacular transformations (Mummra), stunning characters, epic storylines were just a few of the great aspects of this show. It's space counterpart (Silverhawks) would do just as well. Visionaries were great too. Although its run was agonizingly short (13 eps) it featured characters that showed a vast array of emotions and personalities. The good guys sometimes had major attitude (like witterquick), Merklyn-the wizard- was neither good nor bad, but would stage contests to retrieve magical items or would pit Darkling lords against the Spectral knights for his own amusement. They even showed one scene where a Mordredd (darkling knight) stabbed a character (while in animal form) with his knife. This was technically, a no-no in cartoons. Legendary storys from writers like Bob Forward, Flint Dile and others would make for action packed-and often funny-cartoons. The combining of Japanese Anime and American cartoons would largely complement each other. Where American toons lacked background detail, there was Anime. Where anime tended to make all their characters in the "cutesy" Astro-boy like style (big heads, triangle nose or none at all, big eyes) American cartoon/comic style was used. Anime in itself was spectacular. Robotech, with it's ever-unfolding storylines and Voltron's "Super robot" theme was spectacular. Frankly, we had it made. We also had great cartoons like the Smurfs, shirttales, bionic six, turbo teen and a slew of others. If that wasn't enough, we had reruns of other great cartoons like Fat Albert, Plastic man, grape ape, hongkong phooey and the Superfriends with a side of cheese (grin). Cartoons would literally run till, like noon or better. It was a paradise (that is, until your Mom kicked you outside to "go play"). Of course the other neighborhood kids would come shuffling out of the house at the same time. Before 11 o' clock the neighborhood was a virtual ghost town. Those who made it to noon, left the house quickly to avoid the dreaded "afternoon special." While cartoons did sometimes have a running PSA (public service anouncement-like) theme, it never took away from the action in the cartoons. Often public service announcements took place after the cartoon, in a 20 second clip advising you not to bully, stay away from drugs ect. By the late 80's/early 90's cartoons began to fade in entertainment value. Cartoon's like Captain Planet and Widget the world watcher set the stage for shows whose entire theme centered around PSA's. Don't get me wrong. I liked Capt. Planet. I didn't even mind the "save the planet" theme. It had some diabolical villians, but the premise was a little goofy and definitely unrealistic "I'm going to dump toxic sludge because I love polluting the planet Bwa ha ha ha ha" instead of "I'm dumping toxic sludge because I'm too lazy or to cheap to dispose of it properly." Suddenly the flood-gate was open and a whole slew of eco-friendly and moral message shows poured out. This, combined with pressure from various watch dog commitees to tone down violence in cartoons and other shows ruined them. Gone were the fight sequences, gone were the silly animal characters playing tricks on each other, gone were transforming cars and transforming people! There were bright spots (King arthur and the knights of justice-who's "Yankee in King arthur's court" like tales were interesting, Bucky O' Hare, Animaniacs, Pirates of Dark water, Batmas TAS, and Exo-squad, who's space-opera like storylines made for a great show.) In the late 1990's the entertainment industry began exploiting a cartoon-depressed America and began relaunching, copying and exploiting all things 80's, and not in a good way! Because television sucked as well, lousy shows like "Knightrider 2010" (featuring a talking SUV :rolleyes: lauched. Police Academy tv-series (based on the slapstick 80's cop movies) started as well and Vor-tech (a cheap imitation of M.A.S.K.) series began, even using old MASK molds for the toys! While there have been some good cartoons relaunced, many of them failed (MOTU failed, largely because it repeated the same storylines as the original series-although it was a good show). Carebears has done okay as a relaunch and more power to it. I think that most people, however, wanted to see a new show with original plots, storylines, humor ect and....DragonBooster was it! When i first saw the show, it brought me back! It had all of the aspects of the 80's shows that I loved and adored (and some of it's campiness too, like its overabundence of "let's work together" messages, and the characters all standing around laughing at a funny joke as the show closes). I haven't seen a show come close, as of late, to the quality of storyline, the emotion/creativity of characters, attention to background and character drawings themselves. Although the show is defintely more "Anime" looking than It's counterparts of the past (Other Canadian companies turned out Anime/American influenced shows in the 80's) it's quality is stupendous. Let's hope the show makes it back on the air. We owe it to the kids and hey, we adults want to relive all the action and excitement too!

I could not have agreed more with you. I do not actually watch the current cartoons, unless I am at an auntie's house, and I would watch them with my younger cousins. Even so, I would watch the cartoons with my nephews and nieces. To this day, I have not let go of the past. Thundercats, Silverhawks, Transformers, Dinoriders, Gummi Bears, to name some cartoons, were among the good quality shows of our time. I long for those days again. <_<

I watch cartoons with my Nephews too! I actually got my nephew and brother into DB :)

I miss those golden years. Now it seems for some reason that a show doesn't actually have to be good from a technical or design standpoint to get good ratings, and ratings are now the only thing that keeps a show on the air. That means that a lot of fantastic shows get scrubbed because their fandom doesn't spread like wildfire as soon as the show airs, which it what the advertizers want. Fan response to most of the greats was almost invariably slow and always made those uptight execs ancy. Now that they hold the reigns, the entire (toon)world as we know it, is doomed.

Well said Master Fred!!
If I ave to watch one more crummy show that took DB's spot on jet hex im afraid im gonna HURL! http://209.85.48.11/style_images/1/icon8.gif
http://209.85.48.11/style_images/1/icon8.gif

You really need an enter key.

I wouldn't totally write off today's cartoons as you seemingly have, nor would I mindlessly glorify every 80s cartoon ever. While there are gems among the range of cartoons made in the 80s (even some shows made solely to sell toys were good), there were way more cartoons that were total garbage.

I admit, Dragon Booster is a decent cartoon, but other shows like Transformers Animated (known as 'CHILDHOOD RAPE!!1!' to hardcore conservative fans of Transformers), Avatar: The Last Airbender, Skyland, and Class of the Titans are much better in several areas.

I agree that most of the toons of today are simply too childish and quite painful to watch with the new idea of 'let's thrown in random morals so the kiddies learn to be good even if it has nothing to do with the storyline' that really brings down the flow of a storyline (DB suffers from this affliction as well mind you) but I wouldn't write off all new cartoons.

Anime, as you stated, was a huge influence on the 'cutesy' cartoons of today. But some American studios have picked uo the anime style and fuzed it with their own culture. A perfect example of this is Afro Samurai, a recent animation starring Samuel L Jackson. I enjoy the break away from anime conventions while keeping the spirit of mature animations. For example in Afro Samurai both the lead roles are portrait as African Americans without becoming complete stereo-types.

Some of today's toons try to keep within the 'combat guidelines' of the public (which on a whole I dislike) and manage to pull off fight scenes well.

One of today's lighthearted cartoons I really enjoy is a series called 'King Arthur's Disasters'. This brittish animation has a unique style while not toning down it's humour so much it's painful for adults to watch. I find myself giggling at the role-reversals of King Arthur being saved by his female cousin (?) dressed as a knight and the princess Quenivere falling in love with her instead of Arthur.

80's Animation was a breakthrough for the style of television (and yes, product placement was a huge part of this) but suggesting that all 80's animation was wonderful I don't agree with. I do enjoy many 80's series, but I enjoy today's idea of following a storyline through a series much better.

Take Transformers G1 for example. You knew that at the start of the episode that Megs would have a plot to destroy the Autobots and at the end of the episode he would cry 'Decepticons retreat! (Expet if it was a double episode, at which point you would have to wait a week until he yelled for retreat.)

To bring up one of my favorite animations Beast Wars followed the more anime style of a continueing plot. There was not a war in every episode and the power fluctuated between the good, the bad and the grey areas. This show was simply to premote the toys, but brought up some very important issues. In an interview with the creators they told the story of a father who had written in after the episode 'Code of a Hero' to tell them that it helped to explain the concept of death to his young son, changing this taboo subject to something that could be discussed.

As someone else pointed out there are some great recent animations out there. Avatar: The Last Airbender is one of them, with it's ongoing storyline, characterisation and grey areas.

I am a trasformers fan but I am yet to see Transformers Animated, nor do I have the drive to. I am however, watching the recent Star Wars series. (Good, but not great) Today, many filmmakers use cartoons or comic books to expand on their storylines.

And let us not forget that gem Gargoyles in all of this. From what I gather many 80's animation fans converted to Gargoyles for it's storyline, characters and unique idea.

I also enjoyed the old X Men cartoons, having always been a fan. Characters within the series were killed off and seriously hurt during fights (Remy was a common victim of a good, old fasion beating if I recall right.

There are some really finds when you sift through the crap of today. One cartoon I love for it's style is the show 'Ruby Gloom', which although it suffers fom the 'random morals syndrome' has original character designs and a wonderful colour sceme.

All in all I still think modern western animation needs to be reminded that not all watchers are six years old. In the 80's this didn't seem to come through as strong, and it was a time of discovery in the wonders of animation, but I wouldn't throw away every recent cartoon.

No, there are good cartoons that have come along recently. I enjoy Storm Hawks, I like digimon, I even liked "recess" (definitely funny enough to reach adults). Final Fantasy animated movie was spectacular and Gargoyles was also one of my favorites.

My point is, that most toons are severly lacking nowadays. Even Disney's animation has gone downhill (not the cgi style). Enchanted had that "direct to video" look, that some cheaply produced toons do (with the exception of the last fight scene). I didn't say all 80's cartoons were great. I'm not trying to "glorify" the 80's. Frankly, many of the 80's tunes belonged on the el sucko list. I can name several: Giligan in space, Rude dog and the dweebs, The ed grimley show and many, many more. I'm just saying, that compared to the 80's, toons nowadays are severly lacking in imagination. We have the technology, why not combine (gasp) quality animation with a good story?

As far as TF Animated (and the conservative fans not liking it) that's not necessarily the norm. TF never really went off the air for long. From the original series, through Beast Wars and up until now, it has gone through several animation and story styles. No one complained about Beast Wars (hey that was different for the "conservative" fans too!) Some feel that the new series has "dummied down" it's scripts. Others like it as much as the original.

Keep in mind that most of my gripes are with U.S./western animation. As I've stated, I like many anime series, but not when it's done in a cheap knockoff style that many American studios have undertaken. Where's the detail? Avatar's ok, but for every Avatar, there's many lousy shows. I also don't like shows that are made stupid for stupid's sake (ed, ed and eddy anyone?). yes, alot of English Animation is great too.

Ok, I'm done griping

I see what you're meaning. However...

Some people would disagree.

While I am one of the people not complaining, there will indeed be some people who would complain about it. I saved my complain from Beast War, because I like animals. It was good for my soul.
I would not write off Recess, either. I watched Archie's Weird Mysteries, Batman, Biker Mice from Mars, Botsmaster, Captain Planet and the Planeteers (great morals, and public service), Darkwing (good in its debut day), Dragon Flyz (those Gremwings and dragons), Gargoyles, Highlander: The Animated Series, James Bond Jr, Jungle Cubs (saw several episodes, not the entire series), The MASK, Masked Rider, marsupilami (a few episodes for several minutes, and I loved his tail), The Magic School Bus, Power Rangers, Mighty Max, the Mystery Files of Shelby Woo, Pirates of Dark Water, Rugrats (watched it with my friends), Swat Kats, Sonic the Hedgehog (as Freedom Fighters), Superhuman Samurai Syber-Squad, Toxic Crusaders, VR Troopers (in my senior years), Carmen Sandiego, Where is Waldo, Xyber 9: New Dawn (saw last episode only), and Young Robin Hood.
These shows are in my good show list. Xyber 9 was avoided, until the last episode). Sad, is it not?

i have to agree that cartoons are loosing their touch nowadays too (but that might also be because i'm growing up too)
after the movie i even lost my interest with spongebob

animaniacs was a show my brother and i adored when we were little, and i still do now (though i can't watch it anywhere) those "morals" at the where always a good laugh

there was plenty of cartoons i loved to watch in the late 1990's and i couldn't wait to get home from school to watch them as well

funny thing about animaniacs, it was that show that introduced her to North American culture (it was an episode where Wakko was burping a song)
she said that they had nothing like that in poland :P

I discovered something between Dragon Booster and another cartoon called Mummies Alive. The Mummy Rath is like Parmon.

In some ways, it can be a bit difficult to rate cartoons over time. Two things tend to happen as time goes by: culture changes and the types of cartoons produced changes with it, along with all the obligatory fads that come and go, and second my own tastes change as I grow older. It makes it kind of tough to make comparisons under those sorts of conditions.

For example, a show like South Park could never have been made in 70s or even the 80s. The world just wasn't ready for a show like that. And then of course there are the fad shows like Ren and Stimpy that are tremendously popular for a fairly brief period of time and then die out.

As culture and my own tastes change, I find there are fewer and fewer shows I really like. Sure, I watch other shows, but the show prior to DB that made the same kind of impression on me was Gargoyles. So that's a pretty big time lag between shows that really grab me, and it's not too surprising that I don't watch many other cartoons.

Though at the same time I do have to say that of the shows I do watch regularly, the quality and production values are much greater now than they were in the past. And I even count South Park when I say that, not because of the animation quality, but because of the writing.

And thank god for anime! It's great to have a source of good quality shows that older animation fans can get into, not to mention the influence it has on western animation and story writing.

So overall, while there's basically nothing on Toon Disney that interests me anymore, I'm still finding shows I like elsewhere. And even though they don't grab as much as DB does, I do still enjoy them.

I must say I agree. Today there ARE good shows (Teen Titans, Avatar, Dragon Booster, Code Lyoko), but back in the 1990s there were better shows. Gummi Bears was DEFINATLY great. I still have loads recorded in my basement. (Kudos to you, Mom! <3) Others that I liked were Chip and Dale, Gargoyles, Darkwing Duck, Mummies Alive, Johnny Quest, etc.

But today, I rarely watch cartoons. Until about 1998, I would watch most of the cartoons on Saturdays. After 2000, though, I had to start skipping entire hours, just so I could avoid the stupidity that was coming through. From then I was hooked on CartoonNetwork. And then Teen Titans died, stopped rerunning, and more stupidity than I thought humanly possible emerged. Toon Disney was my lifeline until just recently (2006), then that just turned... stupid. Toon Disney stopped showing the old cartoons to make way for the ones that I had sought to avoid BY going to Toon Disney. I latched on to ABC Family just for Dragon Booster (which they were butts and stopped showing). Toon Disney had DB, but it's on at ungodly hours that I could never wake up to see. :(

I will admit it- when I first saw the commercials for DB, I was "guh, more stupid cartoons. Where's my Shinzo?!" But, because it had 'Dragon' in the title, I decided to watch one episode one day while I was bored. My first episode was, I think, Track of Doom or Three Times a Hero or The Choosing pt 1. I thought, "Oh, this is kinda cute" and watched another episode. And another, and another, did some internet research, another episode and another... And I ended up like this. Sad, ne?

I have to agree with Furox- it IS kinda hard to rate cartoons over time, especially when one considers the aging and maturity factors in. I don't watch TV anymore, except for the usual family movies (including DVDs, Documentaries, Mythbusters, Heroes, and... more documentaries)

But kids DO seem to prefer mindless stupidity and gags today. At least, that's what networks seem to think. Therefore, being the cheap butt monkies they are, they cancel the good shows, leaving the stupidity. Since younger kids aren't too smart, they keep watching, praying that something good will come back. As all that's left to watch are the stupid shows, kids watch the least stupid. Over time, they become immune to the stupidity and start to enjoy in. Thus is born a vicious cycle that results in the production of more and more stupidity as the good shows are cancelled and kids watch the stupidity.


Some GREAT examples of today's stupidity (though they are humorous if you don't want to think and are, like, high on sugar) are:
Spongebob- no plot, bad jokes, and dumb animation; funny if you're brain-dead
Ed, Edd and Eddy- ditto
Camp Lazlo- ditto
Billy and Mandy- ditto
My Life as a Teenage Robot- it attempts a storyline, but... buh.
Chowder- I haven't even TRIED to watch this. I think my IQ dropped when I saw the commercials
My Gym Partner's a Monkey- Ditto chowder
Squirrel Boy- ditto
Foster's Home for Immaginary Friends- It's cute, but gets sooo boring after, like... 3 episodes.


And this... Storm Hawks... It sounds interesting. I just now heard of it, looked at it a bit on CartoonNetwork.com and am visiting YouTube. :P

This is scary. I just agreed with like everything you just said, Mari. I just don't agree that those shows you listed at the bottom are that bad. They're good if you have nothing better to watch. Except for Spongebob and Teenage Robot. Spongy is idiotic and Teenage Robot has poor graphics and a thin plot. Chowder is kinda stupid but it has its moments(though few they may be).