Even if you haven't seen the documentary, you've probably seen commercials or segments on the news. If you have no idea what the "Jesus Camp", don't post saying "i don't know what it is" :rolleyes: . Either don't post or Google the subject. I took the liberty of even finding a couple of links myself:

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/83/story_8365_1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp_Documentary

The former site, Belief.net, is an awesome website in general. I took the Belief-o'-matic when it fist came out, and the articles in general there are just very interesting. Just note that I'm not aiming to start a debate, and if this thread leads to that stay calm. Debates can be entertaining and interesting, but the "Horse" thread got out of hand. :unsure: That shouldn't happen here.

People who criticize the movie say that there was a great deal of editing done, and this is what makes them look bad. ...Really... :rolleyes: ? There's only so much you can blame on editing. What we're shown is disturbing. I don't care what adults do on their own religion-wise, but to do this to children is insane. A small child should not be speaking in tongues, writing on the floor, and repenting sins. How much does a five-year-old really have to repent?

I make no effort to hide (save from my overtly religious extended family in Alabama) the fact that I am eclectic pagan, and have been happily so for years. I wear a pentagram with the phases of the moon as proudly as most wear crosses. I am fully aware that this, paired with the somewhat outrageous way I dress is going to get me noticed where I live (The Bible Belt). I answer very ignorant questions ("Aren't you afraid you'll go to Hell?" "Are you a Satanist?" "Are you an atheist?") and accept the multitude of phamplets and mini-Bibles passed my way with patience. What makes me lose my temper is when self-righteous Bible-thumpers start preaching "one shalt not suffer a witch to live" and religious intolerance in general.

One portion of the movie has Becky Fischer (the children's pastor) evangelistically preaching against warlocks and witches. The drills it into the children's minds that they work for Satan; that they're abominations. She promotes myths that could have been taken straight out of Haxan. First of all, witches do exist. We don't fly on brooms, we're not the crazy cat lady at the end of the street, and we generally aren't the silly woman at the New Age store conversing with aliens and waving a dowel stick want...though we do tend to enjoy pagan supply stores and some do use some sort of wand-like tool for channeling...We do, however, tend to have very lovely rituals in the moonlight, make incenses and oils, pray to the gods and Divinity, and, yes, occasionally we do spellwork. Most witches are intelligent and well spoken. My best friend (a fellow pagan) was even the valedictorian of her class. Most importantly, the majority of us don't even believe in Satan, much less pray to, ask favors of, or work for him. Most Satanists don't even believe in Satan -.-.

Of course, Fischer was making references to Harry Potter. Oh please - it's a novel! It's fiction and a book and harmless! Though, the series has been well received and well loved by the Pagan community, you have to use common sense. Magick most certainly exists...but come on...not like that. Harry Potter is simply a fantasy series that has inspired thousands (I'm guessing more that that) of children to pick up a book and read. Satan's work that is not.

There are many points in the documentary to touch on, views on state, abortion, ect. Many of these things are taught to the children from a painfully skewed point of view. By all appearances, and even the admittance of one parent, these kids are being used. I would go on but, for the moment, I'm all ranted out.

Edit: I'm not entirely sure why Jesus came out in lower-case in the title. I didn't type it that way, and even so, the title system here usually auto capitalizes everything.

I haven't seen it, though I have read a few reviews about it and seen the preview. I find it pretty scary--these people are really invested in spreading memes that my bodily integrity means nothing compared to fetal "rights", that women should just stay at home and be good little housewives, that God hates some people he presumably created as abominations, that anyone who bothers to think a little is doomed and doomed forever and evil--but it's something that's definitely topical and need-to-know. I've heard that Fisher was actually satisfied with how the church was presented, and it sounds like a reasonably even-handed go of it--that still manages to get across the batshittery of it, of course.

I was brought up with some of these beliefs, though my church didn't go quite that far, so it's a particular issue I feel quite strongly about. Religious fundies do scare me, and these days I feel like I was lied to (for example, about creationism). I'm an atheist now.

(Obligatory disclaimer: I don't have a problem with religion in general, though I haven't yet seen any convincing evidence to endear it to me as something other than illogic in often-prejudiced trappings.)

Yes, Fischer is satisfied. I saw an interview a few days ago on television. Their opponents couldn't really get a word, so it was rather one-sided. It's just as well, though. I think they world is in general agreement that they're loony. I similarly annoying and just plain enraging documentary - "Hell House".

I have plenty of fundies in my neighborhood. Believe it or not, there's even a snake handling church down the street. I've been tempted to go to that one; just out of morbid curiosity.

I agree with you Sarah Frost, they do seem...scary, to say the least. In fact, I think I'd much rather take the witches and demons thank you.

OK this is what I think. Believe it or not..I am Catholic. (Even though I listen to bands that advetise their devil worshiping) And, 1 thing that all the bible bangers have completely forgotten is that Jesus christ did not care who you are. In the bible it sez that Jesus was friend's with this woman who was (Forgive me for typing this) a prostitute. And, Jesus talerated that. And, so should every other bible banger. And, the people of this land where this prostitute was from. Wanted to stone her to death. It wasnt until Jesus Christ stepped up and said "He who is without sin. May cast the first stone". And, nobody casted a stone. Because, they realized that they arent perfect either. And, thats what these people have a hard time realizing. That just because, someone may be a prostitute, a Witch, or listens to my kind of music. Doesnt make them a band person. And, that they are no better either.


My church wasnt that die hard. They learned to toalerate it but...a life long friend of mine is. He actually claims that god is talking directly to him...OK, anybody who actually believe that needs help. He believes that god tells him what to eat, what to say, gave him his gift of playing guitar. And, he told me he hears god's voice in his head. Id tried telling him its just intuision and, he fliped out. I have never seen him that ticked off. These kinds of whakc jobs are immuned to facts. And, it really is scary. Doing any sort of violence in the name of god is NEVER OK. And, 1 big reason why im not so invovled with a church is that. They keep telling to spread the word of God. And, yet I was taught that people were givin' the option of weather or not to believe. And, if they choose not believe. Then I shouldnt have to convince them to believe if they dont want to.



And, remeber who is typing this. I am a die hard metal fan. I love OZZY, Black Sabbath, Marylin Manson, Gwar, Cradle Of Fitlh, Dimmu Borgire etc. And, I was an ALTER BOY, and went to a catholic elementary school. But, just because I listen to bands that advertise their devil worshiping doesnt mean I Worship the devil. Besides, we have a hard time finding any proof of heaven or hell anyway.

Any idea taken too far gets scary.

I've always felt that trying to force faith on someone is a terrible, terrible idea and goes against the core principles espoused by Christianity. You can't force love in any environment. You have to let it happen on its own.

If you have to get all blushingly reluctant about typing the word, you apparently haven't taken the lesson in.

But aside from that, yeah, tolerance and not trying to force beliefs on people is great. :)

What??? I thought I was just trying to make a point.

Prostitution. Perfect Utopia vision of it? Roughly equal numbers of men and women who like having sex have total choice over their clients, who fully respect their bodily autonomy. Possible? I think it is, but there's an argument that the person paying for sex is always going to have too much power. Reality? At least 90% exploitative and sexist.

Prostitution in itself, assuming the Perfect Utopia's possible, is only immoral or unclean according to religious belief. Prostitution as it exists should be generally regarded as immoral--not because of religion, because it hurts many women. (Whether it's better to make it illegal to solicit a prostitute--not to be a prostitute, because that's hurting women again--or to reform from the inside instead is an open question.)

Anyway, it's a bit silly to get coy about saying the word after talking about how Jesus spoke openly about protecting 'immoral' women. I realise the board's for ages 13+, but it's hardly as though mentioning the word is going to corrupt young 'uns forever and ever.