Can anyone either explain the alleged restraining order against Carl or post a link to an earlier discussion? Even by GGWO standards, that's pretty wacked out.

The way I see it, it's "stay away, Carl. Until you're dead. Then we'll prop up your corpse and use it to rally all those who left."

Is GGWO also saying "Carl's dead! It's safe to come back!"

You have it exactly right Boss.

A family member of mine ran into a current leader a couple months back. He conveyed exactly what is happening now. They were waiting for him to die, he was dangerous to them alive, but oh my oh my, look it what they are gleaning from the dead man now! Shakespeare couldn't write this stuff.

Apparently. they're spending thousands of dollars (tens of thousands) for the carnival this weekend. 15,000 party invitations, with 1st class postage, plus printing. Chair rentals. Ring toss, whack-a-mole games, etc. All that stuff costs money.

Shakespeare did write it, Julius Ceasar.


Et tu Brute?, You too thomas?


Far removed from the gg fantasy of Elisha to carl's Elijah.

What restraining order?

I visited in March and CHS came to visit. They even let him do Grace Hour. (I saw this in person)

Talking to one of the leaders, the truth is they would not let him do services anymore. He was no longer able to preach a coherent message. They wanted everyone to remember him for who he was before the Alzheimer's kicked in.

That's because it's more true to the Alfred Hitchcock or Rod Serling style.

"Talking to one of the leaders, the truth is they would not let him do services anymore. He was no longer able to preach a coherent message. They wanted everyone to remember him for who he was before the Alzheimer's kicked in." Quote John8:7 Jun 10 2008, 10:34 PM


Did anyone hear of this diagnosis of Alzheimer's before carl died? It sure provides a convenient explanation for a lot of things. One that completely disavows carl of any personal or moral accountability for his actions.

I'm not saying he didn't have the disease...how could I know, it just was a complete surprise and from what I have been told up until recently the congregants were still expecting him to be healed and restored to the pulpit.

I'm surprised that they wern't informed of this diagnosis so they could pray for him "intelligently." Interesting...so no mention of drug related dementia? Or would that mean thinking of carl before his Old Sin Nature Kicked in?

He did not have dimentia or anything of the like. He memory loss was drug induced and everyone knew that. The leadership covered it up so they could get his church and it worked.

Hello GGWO Apologetist 8:7,

Alzheimer's does not conveniently "kick in" on GGWO leaders' whim. He did not have the disease in 2003 and he did not have Alzheimer's in 2008. Either you are lying or someone is lying to you. Don't be ignorant. When CHS was incoherent in public it was due to drugs or alcohol. GGWO leaders may be able to pull the Alzheimer's rabbit out of their hat and fool the people in Bubble World but don't think you can get away with that crap in the real world. Alzheimer's Disease is progessive and fatal. You and the leaders of GG do a great disservice the "real" victims of Alzheimers and their families. There are a lot of victims to this story, especially CHS's family but Alzheimer's is not the cause.

A diagnosis of Alzheimer's is not reached easily. It involves a battery of tests from a multi-disciplinary team including internal medicine, psychiatry, and neurology. While there are strong clinical markers, even after ruling out dozens of other things that could cause some of the symptoms, an examination of the brain during an autopsy is the only way to confirm the diagnosis with absolute certainty.

Steps involved in reaching a clinical diagnosis of Alzheimer’s include: a thorough medical history of the patient and their family history; an assessment of the person’s mental and physical state; psychological assessment and testing; a neurological examination and assessment; lab tests and brain scans.

I don't imagine chs would have gone through all of that especially the psych stuff.

If he honestly had Alzheimer's the real charitable opportunity they have would be to ask for donations to be made for research instead of money for their own coffers. But that is not the way the denizens of the plaza operate.

Wouldn’t it be something if we could pass word around that people should make donations to Alzheimer’s research instead of preserving tapes and booklets…which is just about the most asinine and lame ruse for money I’ve ever seen. Imagine if people gave all this money to a charity that they couldn’t get their sticky fingers on.

John the gg,

I've felt from your first post right up to this one that you are disingenuous I simply don't buy your back-story.

Hey, if you choose to be a cultie admit it. Say it loud, I belong to a cult and I'm proud.

Hey all of you out there who got an invitation to carl's send off at the plaza...consider giving a donation to the Alzhiemer's foundation and then ask them to send a notice of the donation to ggwo. ... in lieu of flowers a donation has been made...(but not to you!)

Wouldn't that be wonderful!

Oh gee, it just hit me that they would find a way to use that in their favor as well...it would really only work if everyone did it...but it would also lend credability to the spurious diagnosis.

Or a reputable cult awareness group with the thank you cards being sent to gg.

I agree with you 100%

John 8:7 probably did come back and will be a teacher in GGCA this fall. Drinking the kool aid is mandatory.

Dispensing the kool-aid to others is mandatory too!!!

I don't mean to be flip, but after I left GGWO I definitely discerned that 8-9 years of ingesting the "doctrine" had impacted my personal ability to determine and articulate reality (a phenomena know well to cult experts). After leaving GGWO, I actually took a Calculus course from a prestigious Engineering school in a effort to get back to solid, scientific reality based on concrete provable premises and definitions.

If less than a decade of moderate-to-heavy exposure had that impact on me, could an entire adult lifetime of coming up with some of the stuff that Carl taught contribute to development of Alzheimer's? I mean just think about some of the stuff he came up with. Some of the definitions and ideas presented as "absolutely Biblical" were as loony as the Bugs Bunny and Road-Runner Hour I used to watch as a child.


Brian

We tend to use Alzheimer's with a broad brush. Dementia is a more fitting word for his bizarre behavior and the leaders not wanting him around. Telltale signs of drug and alcohol abuse would be more apparent to anyone familiar with the difference.

Some of us have had parents who have abused drugs and alcohol and have had to nurse them through their last years. Nicotine in heavy amounts contributes to dementia as well. Don't forget the family history.

It's rather insulting to have them use this terrible disease to cover their own asses. Especially if you've lived even a week's time in an Alzheimer's patient and caregivers world.

Shame on them. We do know already how low they will stoop so this should not come as a surprise, should it?

There are medically trained people who can tell you that he did not have alzhiemer's. They lied. He was a druggie.

Alright, I will concede that we do not know what CHS had. That does not negate the fact that I saw him on campus a couple months ago.

FYI, I will not be teaching at GGCA. I think my actual employer would not be happy if I renig on the contract I signed a month ago.

Brian, I also took Calculus at a prestigious school. What does this have to do with the fact that there was no restraining order on CHS?

Granted, there may have been some dementia, but I agree it was not Alzheimer's. More like hepatic encephalopathy or maybe even his inability to self-medicate his underlying psych condition with drugs and/or alcohol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb5unVJy0Po

I think the term restraining order is not meant here in the legal sense, just that they didn't want him around if he was not going to behave coherently.

Where, Grace Christian Academy?

You know what I think? I think the family ought to email a scanned copy of that letter to the Admin of Discuss for the archives.

You know what I think? I think we should leave the family alone and pray for them. They need to grieve then try to have a normal family life.

I'm certain that in due time, if there is a letter, the family will want it printed and archived. The invitations and envelopes also will be saved for tom's legacy.

The way I heard it was that he was somehow given the message not to come back to the plaza. Was he personally asked? Was he given a letter? I do not know. But this news of a restraining order is just a rumor as far as I know.

The Alzheimer's idea was first floated by the leadership around the time CHS was removed and Schaller took over. It was just a cover story for his dementia. Shortly after Schaller was in his position and coerced the elders to vote him in, he said (at a rap, I believe) that CHS did not have the disease. I think there might have been a PET scan. Hopefully these comments will quicken some-body's memory who has more specific information.

Now the leaders have resurrected the Alzheimer's story so they do not have to tell the truth. What we do know is that the man was 78 years old and had congestive heart failure. If they did not want to talk about the drugs and dementia, they could have said something true instead of lying to the people again which leads me to another point which is that GGWO is just as corrupt as ever. They lie all the time about anything if it makes them look good. They do this while pretending to be a Christian ministry with godly values and integrity.

What I heard was when he was off the drugs, he was fine and could think straight but miserable and nasty. He needed rehab.

Now there's some good reasons not to waste time coming to the "praise the Carl" freak show tomorrow or any of those three services a week. Same old deceptive, corrupt cult with a different charlatan standing at the pulpit!!!

I would like to remind you that according to the "Elijah,Elisha" theory the corruption is double now that the mantle has been passed to Tom Schaller.

:o
;)

Good point Dave. Maybe I should say "same old cult, double the corruption"!!! Quite scary actually. Things would get even crazier at the plaza now. Makes me twice as glad we're out of there!!!

Here is why they didn't want him around any more. just watch this! can't blame them really!

I do not believe there was any such thing as a restraining order given to Carl. It was a certified letter from the elders stating that it would be better if Carl no longer came, but if he did there was a list of rules for him to follow.

This is exactly my understanding of it, too.

Besides, what judge would issue a restraining order against a 78 year old man who can not even stand up without help?

Now that sounds a litte more realiztic.