Pastor Carl Stevens' Obituary written by GGWO

At the above link you will find Pastor Carl Stevens' obituary, as written by GGWO.

Below is an exerpt from the obituary,
which may just contain the most accurate explanation
of why Pastor Carl Steven's moved from Lenox to Baltimore, ever published by GGWO.

Daved

My apologies John and all. I was cryptic and uninteligable and have edited it.

I simply do not understand. People were complaining about GGWO not revealing the truth about the move to Baltimore. Now that they have explained why they moved, they are snitches?

I don't understand what Left Egypt is trying to say but the fact is they still haven't told the truth. Have you read the transcripts? Did you read TBS/GGWO 20 some page response? I read TBS/GGWO response first and it raised a lot of flags. I then read the transcripts and talked to people named in the transcripts. It is repugnant what CHS did with that whole thing. TBS/GGWO blamed the whole thing on the judges presiding in the case/appeals and that Betsy was a liar. So far from the truth. Why do you think key leaders left after the trial? They were sick of CHS' lying and coverups. But it was all done in the service to the Lord, so I guess that makes it ok, right?

"But it was all done in the service to the Lord, so I guess that makes it ok, right? "

The CRI report warned TBS to abandon their "ends justify the means ethic" and said it would lead to trouble.

I think it showed an attempt to include it into the story that we haven't seen in the past. I agree with John 8:7 on this a bit...I'm not sure that an obituary is the place to explain everything. I helped bring Walter Martin to Lenox and worked on the report in Ca. with him and others. The tone of the obit. was encouraging from my perspective.

It is pretty cold and calculating to seize upon CHS's death as an opportunity to put a positive spin on the church's past. They are trying to give ownership of the mistakes of the past to CHS -- so when the bury CHS they bury the past.

Yes arguendo,

Exactly what I was attempting to say.

Amen to that Arg. They threw CHS to the curb and now they conveniently will throw the history of Carl, which weighs down the"legacy" to the curb along with him. Betsy is an unnecessary burden for the current leadership to carry about. They are tossing it into the grave with Carl Henry Stevens. They are the sly ones aren't they? Gosh they learned so well from their mentor. The "legacy" would be proud. Oh that's right, the legacy is dead and he wasn't proud in the end. Gosh, Shakespeare would have loved to put this story to prose.

It's called innoculation against the truth. The best deceptions are based in truth. They are lying liars of the worst kind.

It's fishy that's for sure, the mention of the court case in the obit. I always look at the selective nature of these things..what is left out/what is put in. The purpose of placing those statements in the obit is not about tellng the truth that we can know for sure.

As arguendo implied, it has to do with wanting to put some kind of positive spin on the current ministry...kind of like, see we are up front about things, and now there is a new thing going on. It gives the impression that there has been growth and change, but they are simply posturing. There could be no other motive in mentioning that event in such a non-descript way, in an obituary of all things...which usually just lists a person's achievments, not lost court cases.

One thing that stands out to me is the completely ambiguous way the passage can be interpreted.

It says only enough to make the reader aware of the threadbare facts...there is no mention of carls being accused of manipulating or brainwashing...just some lady gave money and then down the road changed her mind and asked for it back...

that took deliberation on the part of the writer...to say only enough to appear truthful, but leaving out the heart of the matter...

it didn't say, in such and such a year, a woman accused pastor stevens of brainwashing her into giving money and the court agreed undue influence was at work...so it told of the event, but it tells the reader nothing "about how it happened."

So why mention it at all?

It does seem that they are going to keep on using carls methods while disavowing themselves of carl's problematic past as arg alluded to.

The obit says

"After being ordained by the Bible Baptist ministerial counsel in Central Maine, Pastor Stevens took an assignment in Woolwich, Maine. The tiny church soon began to grow as the young pastor dedicated himself to prayer, evangelism, preaching and teaching. Later, Pastor Stevens felt it was time to leave the Bible Baptist organization and established his church as non-denominational ministry known as The Bible Speaks.

Among new visions associated with this ministry was the establishment of Northeast School of the Bible, an institute designed to train men and women in the Scriptures. Pastor Schaller, the present pastor at GGWO, was among its first graduates in 1975.

Eventually, The Bible Speaks and the Bible school needed more room and in 1973 the operation moved to South Berwick, Maine. During this time, the ministry sent out its first missionaries to El Salvador and to Finland. A unique team approach to missions work proved successful and these teams soon developed their own Bible schools and missionary enterprises.

The Bible Speaks, its congregation and school still growing rapidly, relocated to the Berkshire Mountains and the town of Lenox, Mass., in 1976. These years were fruitful ones for ministry, but also challenging ones for Pastor Stevens personally and for the church organizationally.

In 1978, Pastor Stevens’ first wife, the former Barbara Rowe, died after a long struggle with leukemia.

During the early 1980’s, a wealthy church-member gave a large sum of money, which was used to pay off the mortgage related to the Lenox property and make improvements to the campus. That church member later filed a lawsuit to recover her donation. After a contentious hearing in bankruptcy court, a Massachusetts judge ruled in favor of the former church member, effectively giving her ownership of The Bible Speaks campus.

Following the judge’s decision, Pastor Stevens and many members of the church moved to Maryland in 1987, where Greater Grace World Outreach was incorporated"

When they chose to discuss CHS many re-locations, they had to say something about the Lenox to Baltimore move.

Hi Guest2

You wrote

Guest2

The issue is, did GGWO ever before mention on their website,
that Pastor Carl Steven's move from Lenox to Baltimore
was the direct result of the Massachusetts court
"effectively giving her [i.e. Betsy] ownership of The Bible Speaks campus.

Has GGWO ever before publically acknowledged
that the main reason that Pastor Carl Stevens moved his ministry was:
because he no longer owned the Bible Speaks Campus.

On The Grace Hour,
Pastor Carl Stevens more than once mentioned that Jesus wanted him to move to a large city.

But I can only assume that Jesus never indicated this wish to Pastor Carl Stevens, until after:
"Pastor Carl Stevens no longer owned the Bible Speaks Campus".


Daved

I attended a Bible Study at Charlotte Dunning School in Framingham Massachusetts,
shortly before Pastor Carl Stevens made his move to Baltimore.

Pastor Carl Stevens asked everyone in the congregation to close their eyes,
and then he asked for anyone who would follow him,
no matter what he did,
or whevever he went,
to raise their hands.

[I may not have quoted Pastor Carl Stevens precisely.
That event happened over 20 years ago.]

I didn't open my eyes to peek,
so I don't know what percentage of the congregation raised their hands.

Daved

I would have peaked, I always peaked.

I think I would have peaked too and made sure I kept my hands down!!!

Stevens pastored a Bible Baptist church in Maine. Due to complaints about him spending too much time inappropriately "investing" in the female members of the congregation, the elders of his church asked him to take a 6-month leave of absence.

He refused, choosing instead to lead a church split. One of his primary goals in structuring TBS and later GG was to ensure a system where he would never be accountable to anyone.

=======

Did the court ruling REALLY "effectively giving her ownership of The Bible Speaks campus"? I thought the judge simply said the church owed her a lot of money. And rather than submit to the laws of men, Stevens again said, "f*** you -- you can't tell me what to do. I'll quit! I'll run away! There's still plenty of "M" states for me to conquer!"

I heard that Tom Schaller took the last church offering in Lenox, by telling people, "We don't need a GREAT offering -- just a good one, so we can pay the teachers their salaries this week..." (Implying what? No intention whatsoever to comply with the court order?)

BTW -- I also heard that TBS filed for bankruptcy BEFORE the Doveydenas suit was filed, in an attempted pre-emptive strike to stave off the suit they knew was coming...

=======

They already told the "relocation story" once before. "In 1987, the ministry moved to Maryland and became Greater Grace World Outreach. The diverse urban center located between Washington, D.C., and Philadelphia proved a fruitful ground for more growth. Maryland Bible College and Seminary was founded and continued the training of pastors, missionaries, and servants to go into all the world." http://www.ggwo.org/index.php?module=main&action=history

Why the sudden need to get closer to the truth?

Obviously, the plan is to eventually denounce him completely. Similar to the way things used to happen in the Soviet Union. Everyone praised the leaders, long standing ovations, etc. Until they died. Then the next guy would come along and "tell the truth" about his predecessor.

=======

As for those who think "it's over" -- you ain't seen nuthin' yet!

[QUOTE=Guest,Jun 6 2008, 07:57 AM][QUOTE=guest2,Jun 6 2008, 05:43 AM]
Obviously, the plan is to eventually denounce him completely. Similar to the way things used to happen in the Soviet Union. Everyone praised the leaders, long standing ovations, etc. Until they died. Then the next guy would come along and "tell the truth" about his predecessor.

[/QUOTE]
I seriously doubt they will denounce CHS. Schaller told more than one person that he would remain loyal to CHS even if it meant not obeying certain portions of the Bible. If they take the high road, they could recognize the aberrant doctrines and slander, lying and separation of believers but still provide CHS some dignity.

I wonder who owns the copyrights to CHS's sermons and books...

Schaller will not denounce CHS. He stands to gain the most as the new GGWO pastor idol by convincing people he's carrying on the mantle and legacy of Carl as the new leader now. Schaller would praise and greatly respect CHS instead!!!

I'm going to re-post my cryptic note.

Sounds like jailhouse snitches looking for a sweetheart deal. Carl's hands are dirty but ours are clean.

The way they are operating now and will operate in the future is predictable. They are attempting to appear transparent...that's all their capable of, manufactured appearances. Lies, half truths, " righteous mudslinging".

Let's face it, Einstein's they ain't.

I would have peaked too.

Watch...

Not overtly today. But they've already begun. Next we'll hear something like "WE didn't want to take Betsy's money, pastah made us do it!" (Besides, he promised we could use the Florida condo too!)

Add to that the fact that, for years, Stevens AND his top attack dogs publicly and repeatedly denied he had Alzheimer's. (Because he didn't!) Not once or twice, over and over and over. For several years.

Yet less than 24 hours after he died, they posted the (prepared, of course) notice and said, "His most recent days were spent battling the challenges related to Alzheimer’s disease"
http://www.ggwo.org/chs/

"Well, yes, pastah did say and do some unscriptural things. But it wasn't HIM, it was the disease!" No, it WAS him. And the booze. And the drugs. And the years of lying until he started believing his own press...

WTF?! "Take the high road" by acknowledging the man they worship (and make a lot of money off of) taught heretical doctrine, was a pathological liar, a vicious gossip who conspired to separate friends and families (including his own) and provide him some dignity?! You must still believe in 'the legacy' if you can reconcile all of that.

Amost everyone did.
I know because as the soundman I didn't close my eyes.
I did look and there where very few hands that didn't go up.

Tacoma's own Pastor Tom Powell, former head of "The Bible Speaks NorthWest" & "Greater Grace Church" and current leader of "Living Grace Ministries" issued his own praise report for his pastor Carl H. Stevens on 6/5/2008 titled:"Into the Presence of the Lord - A Tribute" (Approximately 10 minutes)

http://www.lgministries.org/online_media.php

Guest at 9:01,
I think you misunderstood me. When I say take the high road, I mean they come clean. They admit the false doctrines and the abuses they led to; they admit the sins of lying and slander; the misuses of money, etc. They come clean, present and past leadership. History has a lot of bad leaders, but when someone sets the record right and is transparent then healing can begin and the story can be put in a proper perspective. Then we can praise God for whatever good came out of weakness and depravity.

Powell and "Donny" have a lot in common.

According to the NY Times, Betsy bought the property at auction a year later.

How does this mesh with the recent gg allegation that "...a Massachusetts judge ruled in favor of the former church member, effectively giving her ownership of The Bible Speaks campus"?

hmmmm... another NY Times article, months after the court case concluded, reported "the 69 acres and 26 buildings in Lenox, [were still] owned by The Bible Speaks.... The estate, valued at $6 million, was abandoned by the church after Mrs. Dovydenas won her $6.6 million lawsuit against it." (emphasis added)

And the Boston Globe reported "Unwilling to let a court-ordered trustee run their institution's affairs, leaders of The Bible Speaks church here said yesterday they will close the doors of their 65-acre campus-style headquarters and move out of state."

And come to think of it, Judge Queenan was a FEDERAL court judge, not a Massachusetts judge.

United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit In re The Bible Speaks

TBS brought suit in Berkshire Superior Court [Massachusetts] against Elizabeth Dovydenas on April 14, 1986 seeking a declaratory judgment that it did not owe her any debt or liability and that it did not have to return funds transferred by her. This suit was dismissed on June 13, 1986. The Massachusetts Appeals Court dismissal was affirmed on April 8, 1987.

Elizabeth Dovydenas then brought suit on June 19, 1986 in Berkshire Superior Court against TBS. She sought rescission of gifts made by her between December 1984 and December 1985 because of undue influence and fraud. After its motion to dismiss was denied on July 15, 1986, TBS sought protection of the bankruptcy court filing for Chapter 11 reorganization on July 29, 1986. Its petition, which stayed the state court action, stated that Elizabeth Dovydenas' claim against it was a core proceeding. Elizabeth Dovydenas then filed a proof of claim with the bankruptcy court on October 31, 1986. The three-week trial on the merits began on March 30, 1987 and ended on April 16, 1987. The bankruptcy court issued its final order on May 19, 1987. By assuming jurisdiction of TBS over the claimant's objection, the bankruptcy court entered into the process of administering TBS' estate while it reorganized under Chapter 11.

That's an interesting article. Including the refernces to Thomas Schaller...

Good points John.

The "abandoning" of the property is consistent with Carl's statement "I will never be accountable to anyone ever again".
He didn't even want to be accountable to the judgements of the court.