I thought it might be interesting to look at the way GGWO has actively re-branded itself in the last few years. Also, the way it conducts its business practices.

Branding is not a bad thing, but its purpose is to build customer loyalty along with other marketing efforts. Also, I kind of wonder why God needs a marketing plan?

Here's some articles to start with.

http://www.churchcommunicationspro.com/cat...hurch-branding/

http://www.churchcommunicationspro.com/200...r-church-brand/

http://www.brandchannel.com/start1.asp?fa_id=254

http://www.chrisbusch.com/2004/09/church_branding.html

This is really interesting to me. We left a church for reasons other than their very aggressive marketing plan. I've been told that they are the fastest growing church in the area. They decided what they wanted and the marketing gurus came up with a plan. Marketing is working for them. They are not a suspect group. They preach the gospel. The leaders are respect worthy. They have more of an elaborate open, accountability I've ever seen in any church.

Those that choose to not use business/marketing plans seem to struggle with image, finances, reputation, growth.

I heard a story about some young men in India who wanted to become pastors but lacked some skills and finances to build a church. A very well known US organization showed up in India and with the help of a young Indian, gathered them up, trained them and paid these young men $50 (US funds) a month to work as evangelists/pastors/church builders. This is a dream come true for these very poor people. It's a plan that eliminates the need for US missionaries and all the things they need to stay in a country not their own. This org will provide ongoing support for these guys.

The one that told me seemed deeply offended by this very obvious marketing plan by an organization most christians would respect. There were multiple reasons for the offense but basically it is the business/marketing plan.

I thought a lot about this and concluded that it wasn't all that bad of an idea. One thing is that these guys were being held accountable. There would be enough finances for them to live without desperateness. There would be ongoing bible training (in addition to what they already had) It dispelled the notion that they couldn't make it without a foreign missionary to lead them. It gave Indian people a group of leaders that looked like them, understood them as a people, understood the poverty many live in, the culture etc, etc.

I know enough professional marketers to know how deceptive their practices can be. I am regularly offended. I long for truth without hype in every place in my life. I get frustrated when I can't find it. I get tired of slogging through the spin and long winded sales pitch. I hate being herded.

I'd like to hear what you all think. Is it possible for a marketing plan to be based in integrity and not slip into deceptive practices?

From the thread about the latest Baltimore sermons:

I'm confused.

Yes, of course, I understand that Tom Schaller ascended to the throne three years ago. And I understand that many of the old guard left, and many men were promoted into new positions. But most of them have been there for years and years. May have been working together, in the US and/or overseas, for years.

So if the team in Baltimore only began three years ago...??? I don't understand.

That's an easy explain,
If you can't dazzle them with dance then baffle them with Bullshit.

SSDD.

I don't care for the way Christianity is marketed. Maybe that's because my exposure is mainly the TV guys or seeing locals whose goal seems to become one of them. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. Most of it reminds me of the South Park parody with Jesus hosting his own TV show. I'll confess I'm pretty jaded about churches.

I guess marketing is ok if you produce the goods. Maybe it's not that much different than walking around handing out tracts, only better organized and more effective. Maybe it's a cultural thing. People won't trust you if you knock on their door but if they catch your TV commercial they might show up on Sunday.

When you look at the budget of these popular churches I wonder what the ratio is between spending on facility, sound, lights, marketing, advertising and media vs. spending on helping the poor. (Oops, I forgot to mention the pasor's six figure salary, parsonage, and expenses...)

It's amazing to consider the spread of Christianity, Bhuddism, and Islam at a time when information only passed via word of mouth. God chose to send Jesus then, not now, which is interesting considering television and the internet.

Well, in the midst of the re-branding is apparently this idea of re-birth. That GGWO became something else-- something different than what it was before. This plays inot the concept of not being obligated by the failures of the prevous version-- we are now in TBS v. 2.2 GGWO: a worldwide local church. A part of that re-branding was changing the position of CHS from the face of GGWO to the foundation of GGWO

Now they'll market GGWO as the place where Schaller carries the anointing of Carl or even a double portion anointing of Carl while they portray Carl as the foundation like you mentioned.

They will need a whole lot more than an oxymoron factory to create a brand out of GGWO. There is a whole lot of package from the history. When I was taught marketing, one of the key steps was "positioning, a unique place for product in customers' minds, relative to competitors." You can test positioning by asking yourself, what comes first into your mind, when you hear the name Greater Grace World Outreach?

They think they can whitewash their past by denying it, but it will not work outside the bubble world. They would have to face the music and be accountable.

If you visit http://ggwo.com/cms/index.php?page=news and click the buttons or arrows just below the picture at the top of the page, it shows images of many places around the world.

Is this part of the rebranding? i.e.: as far as I know, gg does not have a church in many of the places pictured. I thought that was odd... Why not pictures of places they DO have churches in?

Carl and his inner circle have always tried to portray GGWO as something that's so much better and important than it really is. Not surprising that they would be dishonest here in trying to get people to believe they have churches in more places than they really do. At GGWO, image is so much more important than the truth!!!

My question was not accusing them of doing this. I just found it odd that they picture cities where I don't think they have churches. Maybe there's a reason behind doing so. Does it fit into the rebranding scheme? Is there something else going on? (Maybe these were the only photos available from the place they bought the pictures, I don't know.)

Either they were the only photos available or maybe they want to emphasize their worldwide vision. Wasn't "Spreading Your Global Wings" Schaller's first (and only?) booklet?

I think so. I remember that just before leaving my home to move and be part of GGWO, that that book was my "bathroom reading".

That could possibly be true and thanks for pointing this out John. I just never really saw the leaders of GGWO being all that up front about numbers of churches or their locations or even what out there that would actually qualify as a church in their eyes. Not trying to argue here. But the appearances of a possible deception here unfortunately do exist. Maybe I should have been more specific here. Unfortunately, they have been continually deceptive about themselves as a ministry in other ways (like telling others they're bigger, better and more important than they really are) and very possibly have been in this way as well. A more careful selection of photos would have been better here but then again, availability of desired photos might have been a problem. Just a few thoughts.

SIDETHORN

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/outofur/...w_creek_re.html

I find it refreshing that Willow Creek is so willing to look at themselves and correct their problems.

The fact that they are using one of the tools of the business world (market research) is also very good.