Title: Is "Yahweh" found in "The Word of God" ?
Description: Is the name "Yahweh" found in GGWO 's Bi
daved - May 20, 2008 10:20 AM (GMT)
GGWO teaches dogmatically that God's name is "Yahweh".
Two questions are being asked in this Post.
1. Is the name "Yahweh" found in "The Word of God"?
2. Is the name "Yahweh" found in GGWO's English Bible?
[i.e. In the English Bible that GGWO pastors preach from in the pulpit"]
If the answer to the above two questions is "NO",
by what authority does GGWO teach that God's name is "Yahweh"?
Daved
sibiricus - May 20, 2008 11:49 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (daved @ May 20 2008, 01:20 PM) |
GGWO teaches dogmatically that God's name is "Yahweh".
|
Daved,
I know this subject is important to you, but I disagree that the GGWO is dogmatic upon the subject of how to pronounce the Hebrew word with the letters "yod-heh-vav-heh". I think CHS is the only pastor in the GGWO that really made it an issue that it should be pronounced as "Yahweh". I also believe that the pronounciation "Yahweh" is preferred by many modern scholars.
Even if the GGWO was dogmatic about "Yahweh", there is so much that is definitely wrong in the GG teaching - doctrines and practises that have literally ruined and devastated people's lives. The pronounciation of YHVH is not one of them and if it is, a discussion forum might not be the best place to repair the damage the name "Yahweh" has caused.
Like I wrote, I know this is important to you and I understand your point. I also understand that this is a public forum, but I still think the subject is not a big issue in the sect or cult called the GGWO.
John Collins - May 20, 2008 12:06 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (daved @ May 20 2008, 06:20 AM) |
| by what authority does GGWO teach that God's name is "Yahweh"? |
If Carl Stevens said a thing -- anything, on any subject, that is all the authority required for gg to embrace and teach it.
How many teachings of Stevensism are taught, believed and acted upon for NO logical or biblical reason except the fact that Carl Stevens taught it? Doesn't matter if "you won't hear this taught any where else." Doesn't matter if you won't read it in any writings by any other Christian anywhere in the world. Doesn't matter if the church hasn't taught it in 2,000 years. The motto is, "Carl said it, I believe it, and that settles it."
daved - May 20, 2008 12:32 PM (GMT)
Hi Sibiricus
You wrote
| QUOTE |
| I think CHS is the only pastor in the GGWO that really made it an issue that it should be pronounced as "Yahweh". |
Sibiricus,
The following members, or ex members of GGWO,
made an issue of the name "Yahweh".
Pastor Paul Stevens [MIA]
Pastor Steve Stevens [MIA]
Doctor Lewis [MIA]
Pastor Marr [MIA]
Pastor Tom Schaller [dogmatic]
Pastor John Leonard [dogmatic, possibly to the extreme]
Pastor Love [I assume]
Pastor Scibelli [spelling ?] I assume
etc, etc, etc
Plus I assume you know that God
(according to Pastor Carl Stevens)
is going to deal with this issue at the "Bema Seat evaluation",
sometimes referred to as the judgment seat of Christ.
And of course if you don't believe that God's name is "Yahweh" ,
at the Bema Seat Evaluation,
God may ask you,
"Well why didn’t you believe that God's name is 'Yahweh'?
Didn't you know that a "preciseness ministry' was teaching that message on the Planet earth,
at the same time that you were a human being Christian"
Daved
daved - May 20, 2008 01:00 PM (GMT)
Hi John Collins,
You wrote:
| QUOTE |
If Carl Stevens said a thing -- anything, on any subject,
that is all the authority required for gg to embrace and teach it. |
John,
There may be an authority even higher than Pastor Carl Stevens
that GGWO accepts,
and all persons are accountable to,
whether they heard this authority speak or not.
In GGWO, Pastor Carl Stevens refers to that authority as a "preciseness ministry"
If a preciseness ministry teaches that God's name is "Yahweh".
every person on the planet earth is responsible for that teaching,
according to Pastor Carl Stevens,
even if that person did not ever hear that teaching.
I never did hear a precise definition of just what is a "preciseness ministry"
Are the statements of any GGWO Pastor,
other than Pastor Carl Stevens,
ever considered to be absolutely, precisely true,
and everyone is responsible for what is stated in these statements,
even if they never heard the statements?
daved
sibiricus - May 20, 2008 01:58 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (daved @ May 20 2008, 03:32 PM) |
The following members, or ex members of GGWO,
made an issue of the name "Yahweh".
|
OK. I stand corrected. I didn't know.
| QUOTE |
...(according to Pastor Carl Stevens)...
|
The part of the Bema I have never heard, but I know he is (was?) dogmatic in his stand. Can you tell any subject he taught where he wasn't dogmatic? I heard him admittingly change his opinion of a verse only twice, once publicly in a sermon and once in a personal letter after being challenged.
daved - May 20, 2008 03:54 PM (GMT)
sibiricus wrote:
| QUOTE |
Can you tell any subject he taught where he wasn't dogmatic?
I heard him admittingly change his opinion of a verse only twice,
once publicly in a sermon
and once in a personal letter after being challenged. |
sibiricus,
Pastor Carl Stevens arrived in Baltimore in 1987,
as a Pastor Teacher that dogmatically believed that God's name was "Jehovah".
I assume he had taught that God's name was "Jehovah" since at least 1972.
I assume that he believed that God [i.e. Jehovah] ,
had promised to anoint every one of his messeges,
in an experience he had in his early ministry.
Who else, but Jehovah,
could Pastor Carl Stevens have possibly believed made that promise to him.
At the end of some discusions on Jehovah,
[on the Grace Hour in the early 1990's].
Pastor Carl Stevens said:
"Jehovah is not a false translation of God's name"
Within a very short period of time. Pastor Carl Stevens and his son Pastor Paul Stevens, were dogmatically teaching that "Jehovah" was a "mongrel" name with no meaning, and in a few more years they were both dogmatically teaching on "The Grace Hour" that God's name was "Yahweh".
Is it possible that Pastor Love and Pastor Shaller
may have forgotton that Pastor Carl Stevens
believed that God's name was Jehovah in South Berwick and in Lenox.
They both have mentioned having heard over 30 years of Pastor Carl Steven's "certain sound messages" going back to Bible College in South Berwick.
Pastor Carl Stevens openly admitted,
[on the Grace Hour in the 1990's],
that he had been wrong when he taught that God's name was "Jehovah".
Daved
P.S.
In my opinion the case against Jehovah is very strong,
but maybe not perfect.
In my opinion the case for "Yahweh" is not as strong,
as the case against "Jehovah".
It appears to be easier to produce the theophoric name "Yehonathan,
by prefixing "Nathan" with "Yehovah"
than by prefixing "Nathan" with "Yahweh.
I know of no Hebrew scholar who posts on the b-hebrew discussion board,
that can demonstrate that "Yehonathan" can be derived
by compounding "Nathan" and "Yahweh"
Daved
daved - May 22, 2008 11:45 AM (GMT)
At the end of the first post on this thread the following question was asked:
| QUOTE |
| "by what authority does GGWO teach that God's name is "Yahweh"?" |
On April 13, 2004 Pastor Carl Stevens and Pastor Steve Stevens were co-hosts on The Grace Hour.
I called in that day, and asked a question concerning the name Yahweh.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
| QUOTE |
Pastor Stevens: Dave?
(Possibly) Pastor Steve: Are you there Dave?
Dave: Yes.
Dave: Can you hear me?
(Possibly) Pastor Steve: Yes, Go right ahead.
Dave:The strongest evidence I find that God’s name is “Yahweh”
is the Greek writings of Clement of Alexandria
who specifically said that the Tetragrammaton was pronounced “Yahweh”.
Is it safe to trust Clement of Alexandria on this point?
Pastor Carl Stevens: I think so, I was satisfied quite a while ago.
Cassudo (???) wrote an excellent commentary on Exodus, in Exodus 3:14
I AM THAT I AM is Eyah- Asher-Eyah
Galatinus changed the name of God from “Yahweh” to “Jehovah” in 1520. Galatinus.
And then finally to Doctor Allen, and others,
we get back to where it should be, “Yahweh”.
Dave: Do you feel that Clement of Alexandria’s teaching
is a good foundation for the name “Yahweh”?
Pastor Steve Stevens: Yes we do.
And from what I can tell,
it’s accepted by the majority of Christian Comentarians as well.
Dave: Thank you. |
___________________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________________
An English translation of Clement's 190 A.D. Greek Stromata Book V., Chapter 6:34
is found in Volume II of the classic Ante-Nicene Fathers.
The translation reads:
| QUOTE |
"... Further, the mystic name of four letters
which was affixed to those alone to whom the adytum was accessible,
is called Jave,
which is interpreted, 'Who is and shall be." |
The underlying Greek of "Jave" is "Iaoue" in Greek letters,
which many modern scholars believe favors the pronunciation "Yahweh".
Conclusion:
Pastor Carl Stevens teaches that God's name is "Yahweh",
by the authority of the 190 A.D. Greek writings of Clement of Alexandria!
daved
daved - May 26, 2008 10:46 AM (GMT)
In a taped message played on the Grace Hour on 1/21/05,
Pastor Carl Stevens said:
| QUOTE |
>>>
So God doesn’t appreciate two things they’ve done to Him,
right in an Evangelical Bible.
They called Him “Jehovah”,
which because of the consonants and vowels is a hybrid name,
which means Zero.
And names meant so much in the Bible.
Every name in the Old Testament meant something.
So his name [e.g. Jehovah’s name] means nothing.
His name [e.g. God’s name] is “Yahweh”.
So we got “Jehovah” and Holy Ghost” just to bring conflict,
and I’ll guarantee you could go to Church after Church in this city,
and they love God, and they preach the gospel,
but in their ignorance they teach “Jehovah”,
by giving Him the wrong name,
and they teach Holy Ghost.
I’ve never seen a ghost yet that was Holy.
>>> |
The above quote can be found at the link below:
My WebpageFriday, January 21, 2005
Devotional message by Pastor Carl Stevens: "Pastor Steve Stevens and Pastor John Love" Tape #7954
Today's Host: Pastor Steve Stevens and Pastor John Love
___________________________________________________________________
While Pastor Tom Schaller professes to be a Bible Believing Christian
[NOTE! Pastor Tom Schaller uses the King James Bible in the pulpit,
which is an evangelical Bible that God does not appreciate
because it calls Him Jehovah]
Tom Schaller obviously does not believe the King James Bible
where it teaches that God's name is "JEHOVAH", and althought the name "Yahweh" does not appear even once
in the King James Bible that Pastor Tom Schaller professes to believe,Pastor Tom Schaller believes and teaches that God 's name is "Yahweh".
Daved
daved - May 27, 2008 01:11 PM (GMT)
Pastor John D. Leonard appears to be a very strong supporter of the name "Yahweh"
Pastor Leonard even says that when the reader sees "The LORD" ["LORD" in capitals]
in the King James Bible,
in most cases that is "Yahweh".
Note that Pastor Leonard does not offer any evidence
as to why the reader should believe that:
"the LORD" is "in most cases" Yahweh.
Of course it is quite possible that the Bible Students are thoroughly taught,
in their Bible Classes,
the authority that GGWO is standing on
when they teach that God's name is "Yahweh".
_______________________________________________________________________________________
In the message that Pastor John D. Leonard preached on August 6, 2006
Pastor John Leonard used the name Yahweh 8 times.
Pastor Leonard uses a lot of paranthetical expressions during his message.
They are in red font below.
Pastor Leonard says:
>>>
| QUOTE |
But turn with me to Isaiah chapter 45,
and Yahweh is speaking here,
and wherever you see,
[most of the time in the King James they get it right]
a capital L-O-R-D in the Old Testament,
that’s the name Yahweh,
the covenant name of God
and really it’s like “I AM who I AM”.
But in the Hebrew mind whenever they use…,
[You don‘t have to use the verb “to be”.
You just say, and it’s the same in the Greek, like “God Loves“,
when you speak of the state of somebody,
like “God is holy” we say.]
….But in Hebrew and Greek you just say “God holy”
when you’re speaking of, like their state, their state of being.
And most of the time when they use the verb “to be” in reference to God
it’s in the dynamic way, in a relational way.
And you know I like to translate it like “I AM WHO I AM” , I AM WHO I IS”
or “I AM WHO IS”
like I’m the one right here now,
you know I AM, always have been, and always will be,
but right now I’m like here and you know I want to bless you
with some wisdom from above.
And Yahweh’s speaking here, and look at 21b, at the end of it. He says:
“there is no God else beside me; a just God and Saviour; there is none beside me.
Look unto me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth,
For I God, I am God and there is none else.”
“I have sworn,”
[and in the Hebrew that’s actually I have seven. ( the finished work ).
It’s the same word for seven, a noun.]
“I have sworn”
[or I have promised by myself (unconditional)]
“the word has gone out of my mouth in righteousness and shalt not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall swear.”
You know in Philippians 2:9 through 11, the Bible says He could therefore,
[because of the Lord Jesus and what He did through His emptying of Himself
by taking a form of a servant in verse 7,
and always obeying the will of the Father,
which was to come and serve and to give His life as a ransom for many,
and because he humbled Himself in Philippians 2:8,
becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.]
And Philippians 2:9,
“God has highly exalted Christ, and given Him the name which is above every name,”
[every name in heaven, every name on earth, or every name under the earth],
“that Jesus” [the Messiah, Jesus the Christ], “is Lord to the glory of God the Father“,
Amen.
And you know Paul quoted this verse right from Isaiah here (e.g. Isaiah 45:23),
“that unto me every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess.”
And it’s beautiful to have the New Testament, and look back,
and many times when the name Yahweh is used
it’s almost like you see the triune Godhead,
especially Christ in God the Father, in the use of that name.
There’s like this ah multiuse where many Old Testament passages,
where it talks about…
[ Turn with me to Zechariah 12:10, and keep your finger on Isaiah 45]
…In Zechariah 12:10,
this is when Christ at His second coming for the nation of Israel,
at the end of the tribulation…
….Of course at the end of Isaiah 45 it says “all of Israel will be justified in me”,
[not quoted perfectly]
but in Zechariah 12:10 there’s a similar passage where Yahweh’s speaking
for we see Christ included in this.
OK Zechariah 12:10
“I will pour out on the house of David,
and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and supplications:
so that they will look on me”
[ God, Yahweh speaking, they are going to:],
“look upon me God, who they have pierced,
and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son.
Now go back to Isaiah 45:23, Notice that in Isaiah 45:
“every knee is going to bow, and every tongue shall swear” to “Yahweh”
Remember 24,
“surely shall one say in “Yahweh” have I righteousness”
[and we know today our righteousness is in Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:21]
“and strength:”
[and our only power is in the Grace that is found in Christ Jesus
But notice it says:]
“even to Him shall men come”
[he switches the pronouns again,
men are going to come to Jesus]
And I was just thinking about the name of the Lord Jesus
and His throne ministry to us over the years. |
Daved
Out Haus Preachah - May 28, 2008 01:24 AM (GMT)
daved definitely sticks to his guns.