Hello again forum,

I still haven't prioritized it to introduce myself as I think would be helpful, but by way of introducing my thoughts below, I will just say - I was quite actively involved in GG most of my adult life and am now trying to embrace my life as it is in my 40's, with all the consequences that come from such a major restart so late in the game.

Ok. I am trying to get clear on what my life is about these days, including goals and vision. What I'm finding is that, except for the vocational area (it's own choppped up story, ugh...) I actually do more or less know what my life is about - but it doesn't seem "good enough," or "big enough."

But really, what I think the problem is, is that I'm so used to having a gradiose vision to be attached to, and so inclined to think that is is virtuous to plaster bravado on my life (whether that actually does anything towards achieving a grandiose vision or not :unsure: ) .

So, when I have simple, good things before me that I'm trying to dig into (relationships, daily stuff, non-grandiose visions and goals...) the temptation comes up to devalue it all and miss what is real.

I want to live my life with simplicity, dignity, and courage, and say goodbye to gradiosity and bravado. I feel weak in this, but I think the Lord is meeting me where I'm at.

Do you relate to this? One of the reasons I decided to register and drop by a bit is because I find myself with unresolved issues, even though I've been doing what I can to "process things" in the last few years. And so I'm hoping that sharing with others and hearing your experiences and ideas will help.

Thanks...

p.s. anyone remember the song "Hearts Courageous" ? I still want to be marching on, just to a new destination...

Good thoughts, Chrys. One of the things that attract people to cults is their "world-changer" appeal. That's what caught my eye so many years ago. The greatest struggle since then has been to live here now where the Lord has placed us with the details of life and all that. One verse that means a lot to me is I Timothy 2.2 where Paul defines the Christian's goal as "that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness." As Martin Luther said when asked what he would do if he knew the Lord was returning tomorrow, "Plant a tree."

We do change the world with the mustard seed of faith that gets us up in the morning despite fears and pain and trouble to face the day and seek the beauty of the Lord therein.

I think we all absolutely had a "grandiose" view of our place in the world and as individuals. There was definitely a superiority complex attached to what we were doing...

Getting out of GG seems similar to the stories of WWII veterans who had difficulty finding meaning after living for the cause of fighting the Nazis and Japanese. For many life was very dull after that. And maybe there is a similarity between them meeting at the VFW and sharing war stories and us reading and posting on this site. It's hard to let go.

I'm just really glad to be away from people who felt every thought that popped into their head was coming directly from God. "God told me..." I think we all suffered from delusions of grandeur in one form or another, which was reinforced with the messages we were hearing.

As with all things GG it's one day at a time. I try to look to "normal" people as my example. What does that guy do? He works, he has a family, he surfs, he watches hockey. It's ok to be normal. People do it every day.

I understand what you mean about the vocational issues. Before TBS/GG I was a military brat and I've always wanted a life of adventure. It's still there. Maybe my effort to make it as a songwriter was a "delusion of grandeur." I don't know. Lately I think I'd really like to go back to school and I've even considered studying theology. But it doesn't seem very practical at my age. Part of the freedom of being out of the church is trying new things. Why not? Now we at least have time for a hobby or two. But I also realize having a job and a roof over my head is enough.

"I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future."
Martin Luther King Jr.

Give us ears to hear that still small voice
Give us lips forever willing to rejoice
And may our eyes be lit with wisdom
May we know the path that's true
And we'll march with hearts courageous after You.

We're marching on with hearts courageous.
We'll follow anywhere you want us to.
And should you lead us where the battle rages
Let us march with hearts courageous after You.

I remember Skye and Amy singing that song.

Thanks for the memory.

Thank you, Mace, Jim and Gast.

It helps to hear from you and consider what you said.

I don't want to stay stuck in the past. I do want to come to terms with it!

After Gast posted the Hearts Courageous lyrics after Jim's post - I started picturing the veterans first marching off to D-Day, and then later marching to, for example: take out the garbage, go to work in the factory, etc. But gosh, the whole reason for fighting to preserve freedom was to have the chance to "live peaceful and quiet lives..." as Mace mentioned.

An old Twila Paris song, "Keeper of the Door," has just come to mind, some of the lyrics include:

I dreamed I saw my name in lights
And spoke Your Word for all to hear
I dreamed my name was recognized
By people far and people near

But I have come to understand
Like David long ago
That humble service in Your house
Is still the greatest dream a heart can hold

Oh, let me be a servant
A Keeper of the door
My heart is only longing
To see forever more
The glory of Your presence
The dwelling of the Lord
Oh, let me be a servant
A Keeper of the door
...

Jim, I also wish I could go back to school but find it likely to be impractical at my age.

I love what Mace said at the end of his post, "We do change the world with the mustard seed of faith that gets us up in the morning despite fears and pain and trouble to face the day and seek the beauty of the Lord therein."

I tried to read F. Scot Fitzgerald's books that he wrote when he was young because he is a good writer, but the books are so full of themselves. F. Scott was just too young to write yet. In one of his books, he talks as if he invented Socialism and how what the Soviets are doing sounds all right. Part of the gradiose stuff has to do with being in your 20's. The problem with leaving GGWO is that we've finally had to do some growing up in areas in our lives that should have happened years ago.

But I still think I'll be famous. But I get that way just rubbing shoulders with the likes of Mace and Kennedy.

Years ago when we first came out, I did a lot of reading on why people joined cults. One of the common emotional factors in the process is "extended adolescence." That's not the exact term, but I'm not able to dig it out right now. The point is that we did put our lives on hold for a long time to pursue the excitement and adventure and adrenaline.

Personally I don't think I'll ever completely outgrow that feeling. Driving home from work the other day I was listening to Joni Mitchell's "Court and Spark." The line that takes my breath away every time is from "Free Man in Paris":

Lately I wonder what I do it for
If l had my way
I'd just walk through those doors
And wander
Down the Champs Elysees

I keep jokingly threatening to buy another Sportster like I had in my 20s. My son rolls his eyes and says "Dad, I just can't see you on a Harley." :lol:

Mace,
At least you had a motorcycle before. In Finland it is common that more and more the men in their late 40s or early 50s buy their first motorcycle. The result has been a year by year increasing number of motorcycle accidents and unnecessary deaths of those men.

I remember a time in my early 30's, when I was working and living in an apartment in Baltimore, that it became personally important to me to buy furniture. I remember thinking, "I'm an adult too, I don't have to have a provisional life, I can buy furniture..." and I did (buy furniture).

I was in a small group recently where people were introducing themselves, and the vast majority had lived in the same place and been been married (to the same person) in the range of 25 - 50 years. The significant change that had cause an upheaval in 2 people's lives was that the bank they'd each retired from had subsequently changed its name (although their retirement was unaffected).

I opened by saying "I envy your stability because..." I said this in a friendly way to acknowledge that my story was different than theirs.

A person who subsequently introduced himself said, "stability can be boring..." but I have to say, I never looked at it that way and I have always thought of myself as rather a stick in the mud, and happy to be so. Although I guess I have had what could outwardly look like an adventurous life, to some degree.

In my opening post on this thread, when I was saying that ordinary things don't seem "big enough" or "good enough," it's not that I belittle, say, watching hockey, surfing, working in a bank, going to the kid's sports game - it's more that vocationally and socially I am finding it hard to be involved with what I feel really matches me. But I am quite happy and feel it's worthwhile, to, let's say - cook for my family and walk the dogs.

Still I think some of what Sierra and Dave are saying applies to me. I'm just not clear on how some of these ideas personally apply to me. I thought the same thing when I was reading what Jim posted in the Reading List thread from The True Believer. The hubris of the selfless, something like that. Because, I think a lot of the most toxic beliefs, I never bought into, and it didn't actively occur to me that many other people really did. But if so, why did I spend so long in Oz?

"The vanity of the selfless, even those who practice utmost humility, is boundless."
(The True Believer by Eric Hoffer)

Mace: Buy the Harley...

Buying a new couch was a major event for us :lol:. We "skipped" the small group with which we involved at the time that night and went to find one. It was nice to be able to joke with them the next week and not feel weird about it.

It is hard to find a good small group and connect with people. That particular group started out really well and then wilted away when it got beyond surface relationships.

Of course, we're still sleeping on a bed that someone gave us when we came back from Baku. We will do our part to stimulate the economy by buying a new bed when the tax rebate check comes :).

The Harley will have to wait until we get our son through college.

"Because, I think a lot of the most toxic beliefs, I never bought into, and it didn't actively occur to me that many other people really did. But if so, why did I spend so long in Oz? " Chrysalis

I spend a lot of time asking the same question but not as much time as I used to...really appreciated your post Chrysalis...it is interesting and comforting to know that many of us, at the same time, were responding to real light...need to head out but may write more later. Thanks for posting, your story is very enriching to us all.

Oh-- I can very much see you on a Harley!-- With Outi hanging on behind you!