Link to last post on

http://z10.invisionfree.com/DiscussGGWO/in...dpost&p=2720131

On the "Tacoma 3" thread (linked to above), Megan wrote:

Absolutely!

Going back to spring, 2005, when I (very belatedly) began my exiting process, I was very troubled by the way that so many, many folks who had been loyal, faithful church members, financial donors, volunteer workers, etc. for years and years were being thrown under the bus by the gg leaders. It quickly became apparent that the iagm/gg-lite leaders were gladly doing the same thing.

Rather than take a few weeks, few months, or few years to help those hundreds and hundreds who were hurt, confused, questioning -- and leaving -- the leaders all simply abandoned them. They were all too damned busy knocking on doors, "taking this city for Jesus," having more conventions, etc.

Meet the needs of the sheep upon whom THEY had inflicted the wounds? No way, no how. Claiming they were all "bitter," and that "the task was too great" for them, those leaders willingly forsook all those who were leaving.

Plain old common sense in business says it takes many times the money and effort to gain a NEW customer than it does to keep an existing customer. In fact, studies have shown that often, customers who have had problems can become MORE loyal than the customer who NEVER had a problem. How? If they report the problem and feel that the company took their problem seriously, truly responded to them as a valuable customer and treated them as a person (and not a mere statistic) and made a good faith effort at resolution, they'd become more loyal, in appreciation for the kind and compassionate treatment received. This is true EVEN IF THE PROBLEM WASN'T RESOLVED TO THE CUSTOMERS' SATISFACTION. The loyalty was the result of having gone through a trial together and feeling that the company truly CARED about the person. And not merely their money...

No, a church isn't supposed to be a business. But the exact same principles certainly apply.

Instead, for too many of us, our experience was this: as long as you keep drinking kool-aide, sing the praises of the church and its leaders, you will be heralded as a "faithful friend of this ministry." Dare to challenge the status quo and publicly acknowledge that ANYTHING is less than PERFECT and you're dismissed as bitter, envious, sinful, etc. ad infinitum.

We know they read this board, and have thus heard many, many SPECIFICS as to the source of the offenses. They also compiled a 100+ page report to document the charges. And still can't own up to their personal responsibility?

Baltimore leaders did the exact same thing, as did the iagm clones...

Bottom line: Megan (and anyone with similar feelings of indignation), I believe you are 100% justified in your anger and offense at the way you've been treated.

Megan, John, and others, TBS/GGWO/IAGM/LGM are simply "CASH COWS" disguised as the Christian religion that are designed to take from the many to benefit the few.

From what I can gather prominent leader at LGM would condescendingly question this statement and try to turn it around on the victims. I can hear him right now as he asks "How did you become such an expert on these things?"... Well my friend we lived it. We lived it for decades. In many cases the evidence we present may be anecdotal but YOU were NOT there so again we certainly lived it.

OHP,

I work in IT. Obviously, it is a highly advanced field. One which prizes academic education, certification, etc. Yet it is very common in IT for highly skilled positions to accept candidates who may lack college training (and its implied expertise) if they have equivalent on the job training and experience. i.e.: if they lived it in real life, that counts as much (sometimes even more) than if they merely have book learning and no experience.

Megan, you hit the nail on the head. This letter was mass produced and very, very disingenuous. I'm quite sure that Tom would like to forget the past and move forward, admitting nothing, which is exactly what this letter exemplified.......admit nothing. "leave me alone, just go away and leave us alone so we can continue to say and do the same things as always.

No repentance, no admission of wrongs, no discussion of the foundation of the ministry that he was discipled into, no discussion of the reasons that people left as if they have any validity, no sense that they even recognize the harmful aspects of the ministry. Just that they are making some changes. Just putting lipstick on an ugly pig in order to make it look better on the outside.

They are still an elitist, proud, uncaring, glorifying self instead of Jesus, personality elevating, aberrant, harmful, ineffective ministry. These men still mistakenly think that they are God's men for that place. They truly believe that they are the only ones that hear from God for all those people. They do not believe that any one that is not in harmony with them can be right with God. They will continue to make the decisions for the ones that fill those seats, convincing them that they themselves are something special, when in reality, they are nothing but arrogant fools that will continue to steal away the glory of Christ in their quest to validate their importance in the Christian world. The truth being that they are nothing more than arrogant fools that will continue to struggle against God in an attempt to make a broken system work, but in the end will waste the sincere resources of the people that fill those chairs.

Lastly, if their 'repentance and sorrow" was actually sincere, why did the 3 elder couples leave the place after the three Saturday meetings discussion the report? Why did the couples have to agree to confidentiality in regards to the meetings? If they are truly sorry for any thing than exactly what is it that they are sorry for?

The purpose for these letter is simple...... now they can say to the people "see, we tried to reconcile with them, but they won't. They just want to destroy this great work of God, and they won't be satisfied until they do". Wrong! Tom and your boys, we haven't even tried to destroy anything, you are doing the job all by yourselves, we are simply reporting on your progress. I am confident that you, in you arrogance, will continue to do the job successfully all by yourselves. :wacko: :( :angry: :huh:

Dan Murphy

I was just reading in Acts 1:22 where Peter is speaking of the need to replace Judas, he says "He (Jesus) was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection". This is the central theme and purpose of the Apostles and Christians in general. I know that I'm a little belated on this post, but it does point out one of the central problems in LGM/GG culture.

On Easter, when the entire 'normal' Christian world is speaking of, and celebrating the great event that is the resurrection of Christ Jesus from the dead, which is the singe most important event in human history, LGM cannot see the relevance of speaking on this topic. Why? I would venture to guess that even cults such as the JW's and the Mormons ventured into the topic, but not the 'special niche' club. Why?

BTW, this is the norm in LGM, not the exception. Why? I think that it goes right to the core of the problem in LGM, ELITISM. How could the 'conduit' for God in Tacoma condescend and do what the rest of normal Christianity is doing? The special niche must be different at all costs. The conduit for God must be different. To do what the rest of Christianity is doing would compromise the elite status of the 'special niche' and make them just another church. It would make Tom Powell just another preacher, nothing more nothing less.

I've been watching some shows on the history channel about cults, and one common denominator that they all have in common is their 'special message' and the elevation of a particular man as the voice of God for the people. Sound familiar? Their message was special, different, and made them different from the norm. Sound familiar? They used special terminology. Sound familiar? They segregated people from the world around them, from their family and friends. Sound familiar? They downplayed the importance of family. Sound familiar? They taught the people to take the word of the leader above their common sense. Sound familiar? They created a special purpose that the rest of the Christians couldn't understand. Sound familiar? They were doing the work of God better than the rest. Sound familiar? On and on the similarities are blaring.

Some of us do a prison ministry on Monday nights for the women's correctional facility here in Washington, and we've been showing a video about the JW's and the history of their organization. It makes my skin crawl every time I watch it. The similarities between them and the culture of LGM are astounding. Not just a few, but many similarities. It's OK though, he never taught that here. :wacko:

I had a honorable pastor tell me recently one biblical reason for leaving a church family is because you can no longer TRUST the leadership.
I often wonder if the people who are still faithfully struggling along at LGM really feel they can TRUST their leader? Did a 100plus people who left really just have an immature personality conflict? I mean really! Just take a look at the lack of shepherding for the one's that left. Do you honestly think it would be any different for you? The proof is in the pudding.

Do people trust politicians? Tom would make a great politician. The letter was crafted in a politician's manner, using carefully chosen language that dances around the issues without saying anything substancial.

Ummmm..... Yeah.

So, I've been gone a little here and there. Who have left recently. They most not love this ministry as much as I do. Lets just keep serving God like we always have. Our ministry is great and all of our pastors are awesome.
Remember!
FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well hello LGM FOR LIFE!

Your writing style is as good as it ever was! Just like when you posted this clownish little gem on the World Wide Web:

Could you do us a favor and print this and put it in the offering? IF that is too hard maybe ASTOUNDED can help you. Thanks!

There is a difference between "trying to reconcile" and "just trying to get everyone to be quiet".... right? and that letter was clearly an attempt to get us all to be quiet.

RECONCILE:come to terms; "After some discussion we finally made up"
resign: accept as inevitable; "He resigned himself to his fate"

(hehehehe..skewed definition but i just googled it real quick and it somewhat makes sense:)

hmm.... has there been mutual discussion or controlled discussion? People tried to ask questions at that meeting on DEC 8th and they were asked to leave.... and to my knowledge whenever a meeting was discussed it came attached with all sorts of rules or what could be discussed and even as to WHO could be there?

Yes they can and will say..."well we apologized so they(being us) will NEVER be satisfied and there is nothing we can do about it at this point" and..." if they react they are not of God" blah blah blah........puke! But that is just NOT true and anyone to believe that it was a fair fight is extremly delusional!


MEGAN

(i love googling things:)

Megan and others, are you referring to these guidelines for a meeting:

Nah! We are NOT a high control group. Do not forget:

Dear Tom Powell,
Shapoopi says... "Let sleeping dogs lie"

Two masters degrees and a big promotion from Carl Stevens and yet you still are the worst public communicator in TBS/GGWO/IAGM/LGM and all other cultic acronyms.

My God Man shut up and this begins to go away, accuse those who you are apologizing to (IN YOUR FORM LETTER APOLOGY) and you put wood on the fire.

Shut up and things quiet down, apologize for things that were not mentioned in 100 page document while ignoring all that was written there as well as 4000 posts here and you put wood on the fire.

You are a poor cultic leader and a nincompoop of a PR guy. Either grow a heart and start telling the truth or get better at lying and framing conversations to fit your arrogant delusional agenda and tiny (oops shrinkage) kingdom.

SHAPOOPI OUT!

P.S. Do "The Body" a favor. ;)

Or for our more hip viewers Try This :o

Has the letter being discussed here been posted anywhere? If so, could someone post a link?

Lord Jesus, we bind the forces of Satan! And pray for deliverance for the ailing souls of LGM! And Lord heal Reverend Powell’s soul and lead him to spiritual health and humility and repentance! Lord we pray for these things in your name! AMEN!

Bump

where are all the Tacoma people?

Good question. Come back Tacoma people!

Well, they can come back if they want. But if they have found some resolution and peace and want to move on that's fine too.

Yee-hah! Another iagm conference -- in Tacomer! And, another preacher boy as the "honored guest!"

sigh... in the summer of 2005, I sent the following email to an iagm leader:

"This year, we will be celebrating our "New Beginnings" in the International Association of Grace Ministries. We are pleased to honor Pastor {mucky-muck}, Pastor {what's his name}, and others as they come to share this time with us. As always, we will enjoy great times of fellowship around the message of God's grace, and with each other."
(quoted from the Tacomer church website)

Please read that description slowly. Out loud if possible. Maybe it's me. Maybe I've become too petty and overly sensitive. Maybe not...

He replied, "Regarding our announcement of the NW conference, I read it through twice and didn't find anything....what am I missing? The only thing I noticed reading it the second time out loud that might be construed incorrectly was the use of the word "honor"..is this it?"

Is it me? Am I really too petty? Or is there a problem when a church accused of pastor worship for DECADES has conferences to honor preachers?

Would it offend god if they had a conference to "honor" all the poor saps in the pews who do most of the work, pay all the bills, etc.?

If it was any other church than IAGM (ie. GGWO Lite), I would say you are overly sensitive because of I Ti. 5:17. They could have exercised some consideration, when they wrote the short announcement, but the high and mighty in the GGWO/IAGM are not famous from their skills of learning from past experience. I may be wrong, but in my knowledge there is no indication that pastor worship is any less in the IAGM than in the GGWO.

Well put..

Most have thanks to forums like this, men like David Henke, good resources like "the Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and "Healing Spiritual Abuse". Most of all because many learned from those who spoke up on Factnet and here that: "IT IS OK TO TALK ABOUT IT!"...and they did.


However...

The Real Question is...
Will Tommy Powell find a way to pay respect for his spiritual father and cultic idol! My guess is YES. Who knows maybe they can dedicate the NW convention to the true founder of IAGM post humously.


I truly hope Carl's family can find peace, rest and healing.

-SHAPOOPI OUT

I continue to pray for Tom Powell-Schaller-Stevens. He is a child of God and God loves him. If only he would study Psalm 127.