Guest 300 doesn’t seem to get much respect around here. Some of the reasons may be:
1. He didn’t initiate his posts with a spirit of love. He obviously doesn’t think it is right for believers in Christ to say anything negative about leaders in a church that have a prolonged history of slandering and defaming believers that have left the church; misuse the financial stewardship of givers; teach incorrect doctrine; and abuse their authority. It is his prerogative if he believes this, but someone that loves his brother or sister in the Lord would normally try to correct the person in a spirit of meekness (Gal.6:1). Even to reprove, rebuke or exhort should be done with longsuffering (2Tm4:2). He quickly labeled people with scripture, casting aspersions or trying to prove his point with ad hominem attacks. The overall tone of many of his posts are haughty, proud and demanding; something that doesn’t cause someone to value and consider his words. The very thing he accuses people of, he ends up doing with his verbal attacks. People who project themselves are skillful handlers of the word and are dogmatic in their beliefs, but then end up doing the very thing they accuse others of, come across as hypocritical and untrusting. The verbiage of doctrine ends up being a clanging cymbal because the words are not based in love. This is the modus operandi of TBS/GGWO leadership. “I am right you are wrong, don’t question or you are in trouble.” This also leads to the leadership believing that “as long as I presented the Word, you have to excuse my anger, my improper behavior, etc.; the Word supersedes it all.”
2. He has a knowledge (gnosis) of the Word but has a narrow scope to its application. Two examples reveal this. One is his commentary on love. As expressed above, he preaches love but can’t present his argument in love. He also presents a love for the Body that is incomplete. He presents it as some analyzed category of doctrine. God’s love exists in relation to his holiness, will, knowledge, power, and justice. Eph.3-14-21 explains how we receive love and let it become a part of us. Just as God’s love is able to save us and transform us, we express that same love in extending the grace of God to the church and unsaved. That love, empathy, and understanding is lacking in his words. There are many aspects of God’s love and how that is represented in the church. One is God as a parent or father to us (Heb12:5-7). His form of love helps us grow in obedience. He sets safeguards in the church by establishing that love through church discipline. Addressing wrong doing according to Mt. 18-15-17 and speaking in love Eph. 4:16 causes the church to be strong and presents a good witness to the world (1Pt.2:12). This is what many individuals, pastors and elders, and churches have done with Carl Stevens and current leadership countless number of times over the last four decades. They have gone alone and with witnesses. Each time they have been rebuffed and then castigated from the pulpit, in raps and other groups. (The attempts to reconcile and the false doctrines are well represented; I am not going to go into it here). Leadership’s behavior has created division. The Scripture says if they neglect to hear, they should be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. Why, so they will see they error of their way and come back. The leadership has never admitted their improper behavior or false doctrines even when it has been presented to them over and over.

The other example Guest 300 mentioned was Jn. 10 – If we were led by the Shepherd’s voice how could he lead us into such a wicked church? This reveals a myopic view of Christ working in a person’s life and the lives of others. His ability to keep us, his forbearance toward the sin of leadership and his willingness for them to change are just a couple of examples that quickly come to my mind. There are so many facets of God working in that situation over time, and Guest 300 truncates it into “you must have not heard the Shepherd’s voice; or if you did, you forsake what you had.” I think most posters have mentioned the things they enjoyed but were glad when God called them out because the fruit of the leadership continued to fester.

Guest 300 does bring up a good point. We are accountable for what we say with our mouths, therefore we have to mindful of what we speak.

Most of us are not bitter; we love God, are growing in him, and attend church. We speak not because we want someone’s blood or destruction. We speak to hopefully protect people being drawn to that church, to help people leave that church, and have the leadership recognize their need to change. True, it always hasn’t been done in a perfect way – forgive us and in love give us what you have to offer and leave it in the hands of God.

Now Guest 300 isn't so bad. Let's all sing to Guest 300. Ready?

"Yes, we love you with the love of the Lord.
Yes, we love you with the love of the Lord
For we can see in you
the glory of our King
and we love you with the love of the Lord."

Guest 300, don't you feel better now? Come on, take off that frown and put on a happy face.

My opinion and observation is that guest300, toots-poots, and other assorted posters is that they have been backed into a corner and have lost power. They are desperate and want to come out swinging if they could just get a foothold.

All they have is the doctrinal rhetoric they were taught and that isn't working anymore for them.

The fruit they thought they had isn't there. No one recognizes or acknowledges what they think is spirituality, a laid down life, their cross bearing, and anything else they think they have.

Much like many who have left have had to recognize in themselves.

My opinion is that they are at a crucial crossroads and need to face facts and move on out or stay in with the knowledge that they will have to work extra hard to maintain the party line.

:(

The reality of Guest300 is this... If Guest300 stood in front of you, would you have the guts to say the things you say? I know that Guest300 would speak to you face to face. There would be no hesitation to confront any of you privately. The one thing that I see most of you missing is the real heart of the issue that you have with GGWO and people like Guest300. You do not like the doctrine to which they hold on to and the application of that doctrine. You fail to see the love of God in that application in relationship to those that have been adversely affected or troubled.

As I see it, there is a part of God that many do not consider and find hard to accept and that is his justice. God is love but he is perfect and just. God will always love us but he is also just in all his ways. Example; If I give place to a besetting sin and continue in it, God has no choice but to chastise me to bring me back into fellowship with him. Whom the Lord loveth he chastises. The chastisement comes because the sin broke my fellowship with him, that is justice. God did not want to do that but he had to. The chastisement is grevious until we realize the wretchedness of our sin and turn to God for forgiveness and restoration of our fellowship.

To me, Guest300 seems to be very zealous and protective of the justice of God. You think that there is no love in his heart. For that, you are mistaken. I know that Guest300 would not make a move without considering the word of God first and beseech the author of it before uttering a word. You have judged wrongly if you think Guest300 came to this board to straighten all of you out. Guest300 feels that the premise for many who left the ministry of GGWO is not biblical and the conclusions that have been drawn and propagated on this board are erroneous because they lack wisdom and understanding about the nature and integrity of God. If you disagree, there needs to be a biblical premise for this or it has no integrity or subtance according to Guest300. That is pretty much how I see this whole matter. Good luck.

The last thing in the world that Guest 300 and like minded people would do is meet face to face.

POST DELETED - OFF TOPIC / PERSONAL ATTACK

Please don't put words into my mouth or others. No one said he didn't have love in his heart. What was said is that he doesn't convey truth with love. A rebuke can be strong but you can also tell when it is based in love.

I don't think you should put words in Guest 300's mouth. Are you really serious that people did not leave biblically. They were eyewitnesses to the corruption and manipulation. Have you talked to these people that have left over the years and why they left. I have and they didn't want to be a part of an abusive, manipulative, lying leadership that in some cases used the Word for their own benefit (2.Cor 2:17).

Administrator,

Take a look at this posting and there are others, and these are OK?

Posted on 'The Latest in Baltimore Messages

Posted: Feb 7 2008, 03:23 PM

TEXT DELETED by Admin

Guest300,

Please consider obtaining a hotmail/yahoo/gmail account and registering as a member on the board. Your identity will remain anonymous and you will be capable of utilizing the board's PM function to send a message to other registered users.

Administrator

Brett,

I understand that you might want to meet face to face. Here is your chance. Panera Bread, Route 40, old Golden Ring Mall area, Monday - February 11th @ 7:30pm. I really don't mind who you bring with you for support. There is one who will be with me as a witness and also has a bone to pick with you. That will be between the two of you. Nothing secret, all in the open. You, me and God Almighty. There is no other way to have it. Two of us will be sitting in a booth, near the coffee bar. I'll be wearing a blue baseball cap. See you then. Just post your response right here RSVP.

Fantastic! Send me a plane ticket.

Brett,

Your on your own brother.

Maybe someone from Baltimore can meet Guest 300. Now don't you all go with blue baseball caps.

Alright Guest 300. I recant what I said. I made a presumption about you when I said that you would not meet with others and I was wrong. Someone on the East Coast should take him up on this offer,

Maybe Bmore?

Who can translate Guest300's post into everyday English, not using either GGisms or evangelical Christian buzzwords?

I'll start by taking the first line:

There are enough posters here to start a new CHURCH.

"You certainly would not lack unity."

Translation: "You are all the same."

WRONG, GUEST300! NO PRIZE FOR YOU!

The people that post here could not be more different from each other. About the only thing they share is appreciation for new found freedom and disdain for TINY LITTLE MEN ™ who like to hide behind a pulpit. There are liberals, conservatives, Catholics, non-denoms, an occasional agnostic, and maybe even a "none of the above". Nope, the posters on this board aren't locked into group think led by a demented old doper.

Scary, ain't it?

EDITED BY ADMIN due to cross posting

Text may be found here: http://z10.invisionfree.com/DiscussGGWO/in...dpost&p=2672500

"Dave Munson is a prophet."

Now we have twisting at it's best.
I have never claimed such a thing but this guest 300 isn't concerned with facts at all.(I wonder where he learned that?)

He has zero understanding of the gift of prophecy.
He even stated that I claim to have "all wisdom and knowledge" which is something I don't ever claim.

That this guy knows how to be truthful iis questionable.
He is very disingenuous at best and that is why he gets "no respect."

He does however deserve the discredit that he brings upon himself with almost every post he makes.

We could just sit back and let him have at it.
That's enough to allow any readers to see his lack of integrity.

David Munson,

Maybe there are some that don't know you well enough. You can dish it out but can't take a little sarcasm or innuendo?

Guest 300 can't seem to take sarcasm, innuendo, or reality itself. Guest 300 twists facts, twists what others say, puts words into their mouths they never said, acts like he knows just about everything since he believes in GGWO, and then becomes one of the biggest hypocrites this board ever saw. Then he wonders why he gets no respect!!!

Sidethorn,

I am not looking for anyones respect. I want people to honor and respect the word of God especially when it comes to treating other believers. Most here do not treat what God has written with reverence or humility. They think that they can say whatever they want and justify it because of the actions of another. That is flat out wrong and the scriptures warn against this kind of treatment. So, cut it off or as others would say 'knock it off'. I have given enough scriptural support for this, only to have others, like you, say I am twisting and believing false teachings. You don't even tell me that I might be privately interpreting. That tells me that you have an untrustworthy agenda. Your motivation is not right. You need to lay your gift on the altar and go be reconciled to your brother. Jesus Christ did not come here looking for repentance he came to lay his life down as a ransom. To buy back the one who is being held captive. Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus. Am I also twisting all these things as well?

And you won't be getting much respect here or in the rest of this world unless you make some major changes. What we respect is God's Word. We don't respect your twisted interpretations of it, your psychobabble, or GGWO's twisted interpretations or its legacy. What you're saying and what God's Word says are two very different things. You're just too arrogant and blind to see it. Everyone else here does. You've been living in a cocoon for far too long and could do yourself a great favor by coming out and entering the real world where the abundant life in Christ can be found. Give it up, man. You'll never find much of a life in GGWO or trying to defend it. You'll just be more miserable and won't get much respect either.

And now back to our program -

The biggest problem that I see is that you people just won't knuckle under and shut up.

Sidethorn,

You are without hope. You are faithless and have no doctrine. Your an evangelical misfit. Do you think that your heart is right with God? You have no love in your heart, no grace toward others, no power to forgive, no ability to build up and no joy in your life. All this is man without God.

Guest300,

Sidethorn definitely has hope! His faith is strong, in spite of being beat up by GGWO. I believe he has doctrine, but thankfully, it is different than yours. If he's a misfit, he's in great company, because there are quite a few misfits here that proudly wear the label. I've never met the guy, but it's quite clear he has love in his heart and concern for others. I have seen him build up quite a few people on this very board. Like many of us here, he may be a little P.O.ed from time to time, but I think he's got plenty of joy in his life. He might even be graceful enough to forgive the likes of you if you repented of your ways.

Kinda doubtful that you'll ever repent, though.

Guest,

Sidethorn is very direct with his post so I think that he wants me to be direct as well. If being direct is something I need to repent of, you will just have to wait.

I am curious guest300

Are you actively rebuking the 70 (?) pastors that left GGWO in the last few years? Why do you think they left? Did they change their doctrine? If not, why would they leave? Are they okay with you because they keep their mouths shut? They must have left with good reason, don't you think? Other wise, they would all be in sin for leaving their spiritual father, to name just one doctrine they violated. I understand some of those Pastors don't Pastor anymore. What do you think of that?














:) :(

sad bro,

You got a lot of weird concepts going on.

Sad,

You're not really expecting an answer, are you?

sad bro,

Just a follow up. If those that left what to come here and post, they have that freedom. Let them come and go from there.

Thanks heaps Guest from 4:56 PM!!!

Well, well, well Guest 300 is that all you can come up with?? I'm very disappointed in you. I would think you'd come with something better than a childish rant like that about me just because I don't believe your personal doctrine and speak up about it. And of course there's no hope of me ever believing what you have to say or what your idol Carl Stevens has to say because its all bullshit!!! Your last post proved more than ever how full of it you are and how unwilling you are to face up to truth itself.

You are a real coward Guest 300. Just like Carl Stevens, Tom Schaller and the other bozos you worship and defend. Reality seems to really scare you. So you would rather just wallow like a little baby in a world of make believe with a pastor taking you by the hand to lead you through your empty little life which really isn't a life at all. That's why I've told you to get a life sometimes. You really need to.

Your silly presumptions about me and others only prove that you're an arrogant little brat who really doesn't have much to say that has any real substance. So now you question other's love and forgiveness when you have very little of those commodities in your own life. You make false assumptions about them with no evidence and make a complete ass out of yourself in the process.

Hypocrisy is your life just like many current GGWO pastors. You falsely accuse others of doing the same things you do yourself. People see right through your own self righteousness and can see the pride and filth in your own heart. You aren't fooling people here.

Your doctrine is as rotten as your own heart because its the doctrine of the false shepards you worship and defend. I will never accept your man made doctrine and there's nothing you can do about it!!!!! I'd rather have the real Jesus Christ and His truth, something you sorely need to learn more about!!! I do love and care about people, enough to speak up and warn them to stay away from the likes of Carl Stevens, Tom Schaller, and yourself!!!

Guest 300, you have shown in other posts that you have the competency to argue points and not make blanket generalized statements, so why can't you answer Sad Bro's questions? Why instead do you just make disparaging remarks? Is that a Christian attitude? What biblical doctrine are you applying here?

"Everyone wants to be their own person without anyone teaching them."

TRANSLATION: You people are apostate because Carl is no longer your pastor/teacher. You can't possibly have the discernment to figure things out on your own. Thinking for yourself is evil.

Actually I can take anything you so choose to throw my direction but I will correct the record when it gets twisted and by the way that's quite a backpeddle you have managed there.

:lol:

Guest300,

Is your name Hillary Clinton? You sure love flip-flopping on who you like to answer and who you don't. It's just like when she was asked about her husband in the election Cough cough

You are selective in who you answer and who you don't. Do you expect to have any credibility at all on here? Any?

How are you trolling for? TS? BL? CHS himself? I certainly don't feel a "spirit of love and grace" in your posts. It feels more like "spiritual abuse". But, you're not familiar with what that means because you would rather stick your head in the sand of your own Biblical blathering.

I think we should all just ignore you. Maybe people will think twice before replying to you or asking questions. This will be my last post addressed to you since you have chosen to avoid my questions and several other's here.

Well done!!

out and about,

Do you think I give a snap about having credibility with you or those that are here to rip individual believers and a ministry to pieces. Shame on you for thinking such a foolish thought and shame on you twice for speaking it.

Then leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Go and rant at yourself in the mirror. After all, that's who you're really trying to impress here.

out and about,

It is unfortunate that you feel 'spiritually abused'. It doesn't have to be that way. There is a possibility that all this could be self inflicted and it has become a terrible pit for you. God has the power, grace and mercy to deliver you if you go after Him with all your heart.

Isaiah 38:17 it] 'Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul [delivered from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.'

Psalm 30:9,10 'What profit [is there] in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth? Hear, O LORD, and have mercy upon me: LORD, be thou my helper.'

Psalm 40:2-4 'He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth, [even] praise unto our God: many shall see [it], and fear, and shall trust in the LORD. Blessed [is] that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.'

I hope this will encourage you and help you in your grave dilemma.

Nobody wants to listen to what I have to say. Wah!

More from Guest300

Uh, isn't that the way *real* church is supposed to be? You know...the priesthood of believers and all.

I think that there are some that are in dire need of this teaching.

I'm confused, doesn't God love us unconditionally? Didn't Jesus love people unconditionally?

As for the rest of it - I won't respond to that Stevenseque method of personal attack. It can stand on it's own for everyone to see.

Mt 15:18 "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."