notes from saturday meeting:

from handout, page 5, point 1: (to follow)
there are thousands of people who would argue differently. many people's lives were changed. this was not their experience. dr. steven's lived differently than what is presented on that site (discussggwo)'
no one is disputing things that recently took place in baltimore, and you can't pre-impose that on everything else. there has to be viable issues.
if there was ever adultery, then has anyone seen this? who has witnessed this? if so, then why did I get taught to counsel women with the door open?
what we do know is that there was a man who had a sickness or whatever, and his wife had headaches, and there was some abuse. because he is so well loved, people gave him a broad-based liberality...

point 2: he just read it and moved on to

point 3: lot's of good things about church in baltimore. tp has a letter from a guy who recanted his involvement with the wm report. 1 flaw with stevens: people could jump in the car, he lived among his people. he was available, accessible. rap at restaurants, they would shut the place down and be absolutely, totally open and available at all times to all people. franklin grahan came, but he left. pastor was always around for people.

question from sk: she was at falwell's college and it took months to see him. he was not accessible. in alaska she met stevens and the teaching was phenomenal, at lenox many pastors would be so accessible, so friendly, vital, amazing ministry, cut short for time....

comment from jh: he saw that aspect from baltimore about accessibility, but there was pastor worship too. beautiful people would serve God whether stevens was there or not.

et: was there good stuff going on with the bad stuff?

next post: #5

Well, here we go again - the point is that good things happened DESPITE the system. Mussolini made the trains run on time, too.

Recently?!? Has the space/time continuum derailed? GGWO has a decades old, long standing history of wrong-doing.

They're the same exact issues that were identified by YOU and your buddies at Sandy Cove. Do you have amnesia? Or were you lying then? Or are you lying now?

Did you read A Secretary's Story? (Can someone pull up that link to FN and post it here?) In all honesty, what in the world do you need? To be the third in a ménage à trois?

Rich, can you clarify to whom this is referring? Is it Carl?

....(THUD)...oh, sorry...that was me falling off my chair...that was the first time I've ever seen the a-word used...you know, A-B-U-S-E. Isn't this a little like saying, "I only hit her with an OPEN hand?"

So, repetative, on-going sinful behaviour can be given a pass if you are well-loved? I like that line..."broad-based liberality". Yeah, it was "broad-based" alright...

How far do you think you'd get with *your* wife if she caught you in an adulterous relationship and you told her you deserved "broad-based liberality" because you are so loved?

Lots of good stuff was going on in Jonestown, right up until they opened fire.

Rich, can you provide the name of the person who wrote this letter? If my memory serves me correctly, this may have been Marty O'Brien. Can anyone confirm this?

Regardless - yes, okay, that's ONE. So the Walter Martin report is nullified by a letter written by ONE person. Have you ever heard of "12 Inc."?

First off, so what if Carl was accessible? How in the wide world of sports (OMG, I'm turning into a Martian, LOL) does accessiblity relate to the spiritual health of a ministry or it's leader?

But with that being neither here not there - okay, ready folks - I think this might be a first for me - BULLSHIT! That's right, I said BULLSHIT! If there is anyone who thinks that this is true then they are seriously out of touch with reality. He was available to CERTAIN people. CERTAIN people would be aware of CERTAIN things like raps, after-raps, after-after-raps, after-after-after raps. (Okay, I admit to being sarcastic - forgive me, I'm human...and BTW, *never* speak of it again or else *you* will be held responsible for *my* sin of sarcasm.) If Franklin Graham came within spitting distance or Carl, he must have been very discerning - not to have ever come back. Assuredly, his father's ministry was when they chose not to allow TBS representative participate in their crusade way back when.

point 5: he read a long statement about how he has an education at plu and nw baptist. the board is not detached. decisions are made tranparently and he doesn't impose himself on any ministries. the board has never made hidden decisions, especially with properties. all the people involved with the various trasactions, or affected by it, were informed and involved.
the leadership has always tried to keep everyone informed and transparent to each other.

pont 6: name changed from bs to gg in 1991. everyone agreed it was the right thing to do. it was because we were affiliated and we agreed with ggwo. the second time we changed our name was because we disagreed. dr. stevens needed help. baltimore was behaving poorly with how to handle him. 70 elders agreed that we needed to disaffiliate. we can't undress the man here. we can't go back and drag out things that happened 30 yars ago that we can't prove.
to baltimore: he said that because they didn't deal with improper behavior and teaching, then all of the lies and the truth will get mixed together and no one would be able to distinguish between the two.

jc: sandy cove opened up questions and the bible to correct all of the problems in ggwo. integrity was tremendous. problems were addressed.

gg: read a statement about lies, slander and gossip.

et: disagreement is inevitable. we haven't been the best at handling this.

ka: prison ministry 20 plus years. got a call from tp about videos and dm. now another call from jc, asking what her intentions were. why didn't she get the call about her ministry? why didn't she get invited to the meeting about her ministry?

jc: there was debate about who's ministry it was.

tp: we will meet with any of you as a board. don't ask questions about private issues.

rk: what are private issues?

jc: this meeting is for our church. we need to reschedule if you want to talk about this later. we made an offer to meet with you, and you missed your day in court. you guys are putting crap on that website. we are addressing the issues that you all brought up on that website.

tk: I am tired of you guys. these men are called of God. that website is evil. it is wrong. would Jesus do that? I don't think so. I don't agree with it. it is wrong. victory is coming. we have gone through a storm. I am hurting because I love this man.

ma: is it fair for tp to talk about us?

et: not here. we need to set up a meeting for this, not here. mark and kim leave.

kg: rant about christianity.

ma: non partisan mediator!

there is a buzz in the place. big argument.

kw: if there are individual issues. take it to the individuals. there are large looming questions. reconciliation is this board's desire. go to people alone. take your questions to the board. if there is some battle, then the one who loses is the lost.

gg: accountability in the board, let's be biblical. they want to put stuff on the website. they cancel meetings, and then they say that tp doesn't want to meet. that's just bs.

p from africa: God is very faithful. He is a big God. they should not scare us. Jesus Christ has never changed. nobody is perfect here. eph 4:3 unity of the Spirit. Endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit. false accusations are always going to come. don't lose courage.

et: about the accusations: this is what we want to respond to. if someone wants to call you and solicit you, we want to prepare you. there are antagonistic people and it is not God. don't be afraid of these people. keep our hearts soft toward these things.

pray. break.

I think I'm going to be sick. The deception looms on- how sad.

TK stood up and pointed his finger at Greg Warren for starting this website.
A few younger students in the back muttered something about integrity.

Question: where is the proof that Greg started this site or this thread for that matter?
He is one of many people that occasionally use this site while signing his real name.

The people that disagree "Missed their day in court".

The ironic thing is that the "courthouse" is now for sale...

For the record - This board was neither created nor is it maintained by anyone with a relationship either past or present to the GGWO affiliated entity located in Tacoma, Washington.

Day in Court? Is Jim Cornwell referring to those meetings that very few people were invited to back in January? Umm.... I was never invited lets have another Jim and Tom.

Joe

Also no one has ever come to me personally! No one has ever thought to even have reconcilliation!

Joseph Aloisio

Ditto for here too Joe.

after the break: I went late. sorry. a lot of people wanted to talk to me. lot's of monologue. I tried to keep it two-way. tp wouldn't talk to me.

they are talking about stevens early years of study, tireless effort,ministry, etc. no one is denying the quirkyness of his behavior. the booklets were all edited, so the weird teachings were edited out. God was moving. tp was there for throne words. it was like heaven.

rp: finally there is an evangelical voice. new england never knew evangelical christianity. there was an incredible hunger for the Word of God. everyone hungered for the Word and showed up with notebooks. the move of God was supernatural and amazing.

jr: this is like a divorce. there are problems in a divorce and it is very emotional. it's exhausting and we're all touched deeply. this happens in churches everywhere. it happens to rachael ray. there is a website dedicated to hating her.

tp: this is the last time we will discuss any of these things. we cannot talk vision until these things are clear. the next meeting will be a vision meeting.

et: we want to encourage an open and transparent environment. we don't want to promote a person, anybody, over Christ.

Why is it that over and over again TP makes the statement "this is the last time we will be discussing any of this" ???? Isnt the point to SOLVE the problems? How is anything ever going to be solved if they persist on stifiling the voices, the problems, and the hurt? This makes no sense.

No, I did not attend the meeting and I am glad. Why? Because I know that it would of just resulted in a WASTE OF GAS! From what has been posted and what we have been heard, the so called "open discussion" was only open on ONE SIDE. People being asked to leave because they asked questions is proof of this! And it baffles my mind how they thought it was FAIR to have a meeting about the website and not expect anybody who left to go.

Also, if you are going to have a meeting for YOUR CHURCH ONLY to discuss the website and how to combat it...maybe you should think about telling all of the people from YOUR CHURCH to quit coming on here and posting disgusting lies. The only time it ever becomes a HATE SITE is when YOUR PEOPLE such as 4 LIFE, GUEST253, TILLIS etc... come on here and HATE! Im not really sure how you think by having a meeting with 41 people that you can somehow COMBAT a website that is WORLD WIDE and by the way, WAS NOT even started by anyone of us or for that matter ANYONE we know!

IF any one would like a compilation of the hateful posts please let me know. I would be more than happy to do some copy and pasting.

Thanks

Megan Aloisio

"IF any one would like a compilation of the hateful posts please let me know. I would be more than happy to do some copy and pasting. "

That is a good idea, perhaps in a separate thread.

I just got back from the big church monologue (meeting). Tom, you just don't get it, the people (except for the devoted head nodders) don't want to listen to you ramble on trying to convince them that nothing is wrong. This website is NOT the problem in your church it IS the result of the problems in your church.. You refuse to acknowlege the real issues, as evidenced by your spin session that you called a church meeting, and therefore your church is falling apart. Have you ever considered that the reason your people get on this site is because they have questions that you refuse to answer honestly. I think instead of TP, i'll call you ToP, because i've never seen so much spin come out of one man in my life. This was an hour and a half or so of lifting up Carl Stevens and defending this ministry, instead of a discussion about these issues.

My question to all who attend LGM that came to the monologue with real questions that you wanted answers to, did your questions get answered or did you leave there feeling like you felt leaving all the other monologues they call meetings? What more do you need to see than what you saw today? There will be no change, no repentance, no nothing. ToP is fulfilling his statement that he made to me on my last meeting with him......I will never change the philosophy of this church, I came out here with 12.....................fill in the blank. Dan

Ps. In the hand out that we were given when we walked in the room, there are 12 accusations listed against LGM. ToP stressed over and over that these accusations are made on the internet by ANONYMOUS people, blah, blah,blah. I would like to say that all 12 of the accusations were taken directly from my posts on this site, posts that i have, and will continue to, put my name to.

The majority of ANONYMOUS PEOPLE are people from LGM. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(sorry... im a little aggravated;)


MEGAN ALOISIO
(im putting my name)
MEGAN ALOISIO
MEGAN ALOISIO
MEGAN MARIE ALOISIO
MEGAN "LULU" ALOISIO
MEGAN"CADOOZIES" ALOISIO
MEGAN"FLIRTATIOUS DEMEANOR" ALOISIO
MEGAN USE TO BE COWAN BUT NOW IS ALOISIO!

There...there should be no confusion!

" tp has a letter from a guy who recanted his involvement with the wm report."

Can someone post the letter?

The CRI report was practically prophetic in it's predictions regarding tbs corruption when the bankruptcy case came along.

By the way...RICH thank you for your updates during the meeting. It was like we were watching a live feed LOL! Great entertainment! AWESOME

et: read points 8 & 9

jh: he never went to a convention until he moved there. the missionaries needed the encouragement of those times . he remembers the people, like the pastor from austria, or some guy with a bicycle ministry in ma. saw a lot of people get built up by that place and the great people there.

mp: reunion. that is the best term to describe convention. you get to see people from the mission field that you loved and served with and had personal relationships with. bill meiswinkel, bible club, needles and urine smell in some of these places where we ministered to kids. we worked long hours, hard jobs, we all needed investment, sharing stories about winning the lost, we looked forward to those times where we could meet..

et: #10

kw: 22 hr drive to tacoma wasn't about chs. it was about hearts getting knit together. friendships, laid down lives, built relationships. it had nothing to do with carl stevens. it was about an amazing work in las vegas, fleck, (other churches around here).

jc: sometimes we felt guilty for not showing up to raps and everything else. who knows mister rogers? some people follow him. don't be fearful of meeting with leaders here. we don't want to promote that here. if some feel that way, we're sorry, and we're working on it?

rc: she didn't see a difference between being excited about chs coming or franklin graham. what's the difference?

mv: billy graham came to aberdeen and everyone got real excited. she never heard of chs before today.

tp: chs was never afraid to be with anybody. his greatest strength was his greatest weakness. he was open to everybody. you couldn't get that kind of access to people like billy graham.

rp: remember the convention when chs was sick? it was one of the greatest convention ever.

et: accusation #11

et: pastor worship etc shows our humanity. devils advocate says you need to repent for that. these things are cleared. it has been acknowledged. these men know these things. they acknowledge this.

mv: cults, brainwashing. she didn't want to leave old church. it needs to be a family issue. cults hold you against your will. not once did she ever feel manipulated. cults pull you in and cut you off. she never saw that here. lgm doesn't even fit the definition.

kk: was in a cult before gg. in ministry for 23 years. 15 years in balt, etc. came here 6 years ago, felt nothing but acceptance. tp never had people following him to his car, got his own plate, no special seat. loved being out here because of so much less pressure from the people who followed chs in balt that she saw or knew of. she saw how people were in balt and it's not here in tacoma. she knows those tendencies from balt and it's not here. very refreshing. thank you for that.

et: take time to go through the materials.

tp: read from something he wrote. 5 men from other org. that teach in the bible college. lunch recently with 10 ministries represented. bond with other pastors (other churches). we once were enclosed. other pastors in this area don't get together much either. there will be more of this in the future. we're not saying there wasn't a sense of exclusivity. God has been rather abrupt with that.

gb: how are we dealing with people who have separated here? I served with these people for years. accusations? what about the people from lgm posting that are just as antagonistic? how can we reconcile? if there will be a meeing, then ok. how will we love them?

tp: the website is a terrible location to discuss these things. it's wrong to do these things. there's not one thing biblical about that. people are solicited. let's do it privately. I think I have repented from this pulpit. we don't know who these people are. that whole media is not ok. the board is open to a private setting and I will repent openly. strip me in front of the whole church. it's wrong. it's not an appropriate way to handle these things. there's not a stitch of Christ in any of it.if I talk with anyone it will be twisted and perverted and put on the internet. no one saw any of the things they accuse chs of these things. we might as well put everyone's sins on there if that's what they want to do.

jh: pastor has no authority in the finances. we have to disclose this to the body. he can't ask for a check. it has to go through too many channels. there isn't any embezzlement or such things like that. there is a spreadsheet now. showing spreadsheet on overhead--56k 2007 income. retirement started in 2003.

(i'll try to get these slides--many contain rebuttals to the accusations made on discussggwo).

jh is showing pastoral salaries from salary.com and some university in abilene study, etc based on 56-64k income for tp. 1 tim passage about paying tp his wage. his salary isn't out of line. think about when pastor and sue came out here. 2 children, no job. worked in nuclear facility for 2.5 years until church could support him. he lost family time, his heart is to be open and transparent. the 125k accusation is a lie.

jc: trying to close

sk: stop drawing lines. no more: I am right. Christ died for all of us. very unhappy with what i've seen in this body and outside of it. people are not loving each other. hate the lines. take out the erasers and start erasing the lines. if someone doesn't love me because of where I go to church, then that is wrong. start loving each other.

tp: concluding remarks. I don't think anyone is saying we don't love anyone. we want tranparency and clarity. we need to bring these things out in the light. look at the evidence and decide for yourself. there needs to be discussion. smetimes people react and sometimes i'm the foremost at that. from here on, this is over. we need to go forward with a vision and stop digging up graves. we're going to move and I agree there shouldn't be lines.
read something he wrote--no one has been marked or ostracized. we are open and honest (oops, he's not reading). people talk and it doesn't represent this church. no generalizing. we do not teach people to go on the internet and say things about others. don't answer a fool in his folly. so we were silent. the there was one wed night message that we addressed the issues of the church. no one in this church is telling anyone not to talk to anyone else. in 26 years i.'ve never been through anything like this. there is no way to know if the posters who claim to be from lgc actually are. they are not using their names, so there's no way to know. just want to be honest and open.

et: thanks for coming. wanted to address these things. we should be open, when it affects one, it affects us all. if there's antagonism, then that's out of bounds. when people become antagonistic, it's wrong and it affects us all, so that's why we are dealing with this here. we want to keep our hearts open and reconcile and pray.

Dr. Lewis also wrote a letter to repent from involvement in GGWO. There is a distinct differnce though because his letter has been posted to several websites. At this time the letter from the CRI member can not be verified.

I think one of the main problems is that when they bring up the word cult, they think of the absolute worst stereotype that there is of it.. They don't think that something else that's not as hard as a completely domineering cult could ever be a cult or have cultic characteristics.

And the point of brainwashing is that they don't know that it even happened. Just like that woman that donated her entire inheritance to TBS in the 80's. She didn't know that she was brainwashed but after she was deprogrammed she finally started to realize what kind of thinking they put her in. I think the main part of why I never really got into that kind of thinking is that I mainly spent my years not even with TP. I was mostly with the children and a lot of times pulled out of church to help with Sunday School. I was never really noticed with the "in" crowd so I was able to see everything with a whole new view.

From page 20 of today's handout:

3. Regarding anonymous posters, it can not just be assumed that negative posts aimed at the ones who have left this church are from people within LGC. There is the strong possibility that some have chosen to use this medium for divisive purposes post these comments to stir things up.

Well that is not true! I know for a 100% fact that LGM 4 Life posts from the dorms and lives there!

Joe

What will change? according to what I saw at the meeting................absolutely nothing.

Must have been quite a sight to see an ass like you trot on in there! :D :lol: ;)

[QUOTE=richklutz,Dec 8 2007, 05:26 PM]tp the website is a terrible location to discuss these things. it's wrong to do these things. there's not one thing biblical about that. people are solicited. let's do it privately. I think I have repented from this pulpit. we don't know who these people are. that whole media is not ok. the board is open to a private setting and I will repent openly. strip me in front of the whole church. it's wrong. it's not an appropriate way to handle these things. there's not a stitch of Christ in any of it.if I talk with anyone it will be twisted and perverted and put on the internet. no one saw any of the things they accuse chs of these things. we might as well put everyone's sins on there if that's what they want to do.

I realize this is second hand knowledge, but if anything like this was said, then doesn't that point to WHO gave the authority for the LGM posters to HAVE AT IT???

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but did Tom Powell defend the ministry against the Doveydenis (SP) court case and the walter martin report? Wow! Actually it was more like a quick defense and them move on to the next subject as if these are trivial things not worthy of time.

OK I was there and I have to say.........I AM MORE CONFUSED NOW THEN WHEN I GOT THERE.

Some one said during the break "well I guess everyone has the right to say what they have to say"

I said..........what except for here? I didn't get a response.

For one I could careless about the last 30 years of this ministry. My questions are not of Carl Stevens or yesterday, its about about our church TODAY and why everyone is leaving.

I don't really see that anything is going to change. Can't have change if we are not willing to get it all out in the open.

You people were shut down rather quickly. How sad that both sides are never going to be heard out in the open. I heard Pastor say NO to that real quick. You can go to him and the board in private but God forbid anyone else hear it. TRUTH hurt that bad?

Did anyone else wonder why Pastor was laughing the whole time? Was he nervous? I mean really what was so funny?

Oh and the thing he said about picking up Pastor Jim from Utah and saved him from a life of Mormonisim........I know for a fact that Pastor knows My family left GG church before because of a statement just like that before......my husband was an active Mormon for years. Should maybe stay focused on your own garbage right now don't ya think? Had he been there today you would never see him again!

Uggh LOL and.........had I not been asking people why they left I never would have seen this site and I would have got to todays meeting more confused then I already am.

Tom, Elliot, Greg Etc. I'm calling BS on you. Name one person that i, Dan Murphy, have ever solicited, just one. In fact instead of just accusing us of soliciting people, name them. Right here.

Greg, i have never wanted to meet with the board, and i have never accused you of not wanting to meet with me. I saw all that i needed to see when i met with Tom, my last day there. I do not ever expect that place to change, especially after that pathetic meeting today. Please if you're going to generalize with statements like 'they this' and 'they that' at least get your facts straight. Aside from that, I would like to say that you are the only board member that i have any respect for, in fact i have a lot of respect for you and consider you a freind, though this whole mess will make that hard.

We cry for you Living Grace Church, wisdom cries out to your Leadership. Apparently they will do anything to protect a control system including spitting out accusations about peoples personal sins if necessary!!! Is it Christ that they follow?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Why does his sacrifice mean nothing to them compared to their control system???

Your private sessions are totally in your control you hear what you want to hear and say what you want to say and do what you want to do....... Come to you in private Ha, what a joke....

Stuborness is worse than witchcraft !!!!! I got this from the BIBLE.

It's incredible to me how the judgemental spirit from that place is always so quick to tell someone else what Jesus would do or not. Guess what I have the same Holy Spirit dwelling in me than any believer & by george Jesus himself is authorizing me to reveal to the veiled eyes of the unsuspecting innocent about the corruption in that place. Sweeping things under the rug & saying ''next meeting is about the vision'' won't hide the stench of the corpse. God will continue to raise it to the top of the heap.

What is so incredible for me to think about is that The Apostle Paul would have definetly used crude paper and a quill (sp?) if he lived in our age. I am sure he would have not actually used a computer, email, blogs etc.

I just can't understand why he would call Peter out the way he did for all to see, hear and read in Galations. I guess putting something to paper isn't just using the tools available for the time it's different because it was on paper not electronic right?

Do you think the Galations had a church monologue I mean meeting to discuss what Paul posted about Peter? I mean really... he didn't go to him alone, and he posted it openly for all to see. Shouldn't he have called a private meeting to discuss this and then determine what the innocent people could know and what they should be protected from? Thank God that Peter Like Tom Powell took the high road and kept silent.

You notice Jesus didn't blog about the Pharisees and since it was pen and ink it was okay for Matthew to post it on the eternal Word of God. Oh but those Pharisees had a great monologue I mean meeting.

Hmm this is confusing to me. It almost seems like ToP and the Borg of Elders behave themselves the same way as Pharisees, Judaizers etc..

Mark was 100% right! This mess requires third party intervention.

Preface: the details of his comments leads me to believe that, while not a comprehensive transcript of every word spoken, I believe that the words Rich uses are quotes and not paraphrases. Rich: yes? no?

Thanks for such great notes!

That is irrelevant.

If you can find thousands who disagree with my perspective and that of most who post here, fine. That doesn't mean we're wrong. Just that we "argue differently." One big difference? We'll no longer roll over and shut up simply because the "leaders" don't like what we're saying, and try to guilt us into shame and silence.

Dr.? DR.?! Tom, you KNOW that the church long ago admitted that this was not even an honorary title, such as Billy Graham's many honorary degrees. No, this one was bought for a few hundred dollars for the express purpose of sounding impressive. Continuing to use it in reference to Stevens doesn't "honor" him -- it continues to perpetrate a fraud.

Prove it. It's an open forum. SPECIFICALLY come and talk with us, here, where we are, and tell us what's presented here that's incorrect, and tell the truth about it.

Recently?

In June of 2005, at the 2nd Sandy Cove conference (THANK YOU, Tom, for organizing both that and the Chicago meeting and the 1st SC meeting! Those meetings all woke me up from my years of ignorant slumber, opened my eyes, and led to me getting the hell out of that corrupt organization. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.)... June 2005 -- one of Carl Stevens' own sons told me, personally, to my face, that the 1981 and 1983 reports about bs by the apologetic and cult-awareness group, Christian Research Institute, was correct. That CRI was right. He implied that if only his father had heeded their advice and recommendations, so many lives would have been spared the deep pain and sorrow inflicted by his father's "ministry" over the years. He told me this with another of his brothers standing by, nodding agreement.

1981. Referring to events even earlier. Not quite recent history. Do you deny those events occurred? And that the same ministry that was guilty then was the one upon which all the rest was built?

ummmm.... huh? We're not rewriting history, not trying to apply today's standards on the past. The CRI report was CURRENT HISTORY in 1981.

In 1987, a sitting US Judge's comments on proceedings against bs in his court "revealed 'an astonishing saga of clerical deceit, avarice, and subjugation' by Stevens, who 'has abused the trust of the claimant as well as the trust of many good and devout members of the church.'"

1987. Twenty years ago. Why didn't we wake up and smell the freedom 20 years ago?!

What does that singular bit of counseling advice have to do with proving or disproving whether Stevens was an adulterer?

"has anyone seen this?"

1. The Carl Stevens' Legacy begins,
   
   I was a secretary for Carl Stevens from 1978 to 1984.
   
   Even before I became his secretary, I saw many things as an eye witness. In (Mass in 1977-78) there was a room adjacent to the rap room in Fokine. Stevens had a young, leggy brunette, (my closest friend), secretly live in that room at that time. I owned a key to that room. He secretly met with her in that room very often every day. She was available to him almost 24/7. I was in that room, that I saw Carl rolling around in the bed with her, holding and touching each other. His first wife was still alive. In fact, at the time, she was very sick and dying of cancer. [Scott Robinson and I saw it all.] There were times that Scott and I saw her rolling on the floor with him, screaming and laughing, trying to grab his wig off. We were dying of embarrassment. It was wild. This is only two incidents out of hundreds.
   
2. Her story continues at that link, and her husband and others add to the evidence as well.
   
3. For the context on this next personal victim's testimony about Stevens' sexual transgressions, you should read all the posts by "exsec" on this thread. Once you have an idea of who this young lady was, you can then read her personal testimony here. And read the rest of her posts on that thread, including the one where she'll tell you her name so it can't be written off as some anonymous lie.

I know the woman who wrote that. May have even played a small part in helping her on the path that led her to Lenox and the years of evil that followed. I've unsuccessfully tried to contact her personally to repent for that. If you happen to be reading here exsec, I am so sorry! So very, very sorry. NO ONE has the right to do what that evil man did to you. And that he could smile and quote the Bible practically in the same breath... I am so sorry...

Wow, awesome day. It was great to shut down the people who were there to distract the real reason for the meeting. All awesome men of God up front today. People who have left just need to move on. Like we are.
FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im back baby.
FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love the dorms.
FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LGM for LIFE
You are so youthful and foolish.
Someday you will wonder why people in your church who voice a concern need to be "shut down". Maybe you, yourself will be the one with the question someday. Did you hear your pastor today?, because it seems that although he stated he doesn't want people from LGM to post, you are the first to come back and make a foolish statement.
Unfortunately, this is not over. It seems this will never be over. Yes, we may all move on, but the effects of a lying spirit, slanderous pastor (oh, it's okay if it is just to certain people I "trust"), and a body of many who join in ("marking is biblical you know")... leaves a bitter taste in the soul that is hard to remove.
It is time to move on though. Yes.
And for those who have, let go of the past. Vengence is for God alone. We can trust that He knows what He is doing, and why. That is why I know this is not over.

Just thought I would capture the moment.

somebody help me out. Is this Tom on the East coast or the West, I can't tell. :huh: I wasn't there, today, did Schaller fly in for the meeting?

I thought you were personally going to confront us by "getting in our faces".

CLOWN