Im confused. I attend LGM. I have noticed attendance going down. I talked to someone about why they left. I started to search the internet. WOW. Im very shocked at what I am reading. Sometimes the truth hurts. I have read enough to make me question why I have left and come back. I read something Rich said....if you have kids forget it.......Thank God for your wife or there would be nothing for the kids.I have seen many things go down hill the past few years. It is sad really.It is sad that this is a dead church where good people will stay. Pastor needs to change his message, his music and relationship with his congregation. Better focus on this neighborhood, and the people he has left. I keep hearing we dont have members then why the town meetings and who elected this board we have?

Click here . Do you agree this is accurate? We have a flawed Chruch Government. Click here and if you spend an hour reading, you will start to understand why this is so. ( I can provide a bound copy if you want one.)

Well I have no idea who you are so where would I get it? Also I read a lot and didnt see anything about Tacoma in there at all. Maybe I didnt read enough. I thought we are seperated from back east anyways. aren't we? There seems to be a lot of turmoil over things that are out of the local churches control. Maybe I am just blind to what goes on. I know there are things going on that are shocking me as I find out. Im wondering how much is truth and how much is not? I guess I am looking for the reason why everyone is leaving. Looking for why I should stay? I read a lot last night on here and see why people are really complaining. I dont see what cant be fixed though. Cant we vote TP out? Also Rich........if you have such a problem then why do you do kids church on Wed nights? Im not defending anyone or the church I am just flat out confused. I have spoke to one person only so that is not enough to make a decidion. I will keep reading though. Im just not one that is big on the gossip train. Looks as if I should be. I was not going to go to the meeting on the 8th looks as if I should. Not that it matters. choices will be made without the voices of us. saw that at the last meeting. The choices were made and we were being informed. I didnt feel as what I had to say mattered anyways. Not really.

Can someone just tell me what the Heck is up so I can quit reading all this stuff? I see a bunch of Christians mad at each other. Who needs enimies we have our own friends?

:( Im really hurt by everyone going. People I have known my whole life almost just to watch everyone go and then not even return an email later. LGM has been my family but when Pastor does something everyone doesnt like the people who are confused like me pay. I agree with a lot that is here, but it is the 1st time I have seen some of it. Pray for my own understanding.

Hello dazed, you sound a lot like me a few months ago. I kept thinking, but why did all of these people have to leave? Why couldn't we all stay & 'fix' the problems. The problems I found out after years of not being able to put my finger on it go a lot deeper than 'fixing'. They really need to be rooted out, acknowledged that they are there by leadership & basically everyone needs to begin a whole new experience with Christ. I can't speak for everyone, they have done a pretty good job at that in the last 190plus pages, but I became more & more grieved in my spirit when I began to see the 'bad' things I saw from time to time were not just by chance, but backed by that very twisted form of leadership practiced that was developed by the Baltimore church--mainly Carl Stevens. It is a hurtful way to treat people & it has been shown to be this over & over through the years. Yet it is still practiced in the Tacoma church--WHY? This is not something that is a surprise to Tom Powell. He adopted this elite form of church government & he has seen from Baltimore & our own church just how harmful it is, yet he chooses not to change it. WHY? It does not represent the true heart of God for all believer priests. I encourage you to keep reading, it is not gossip, it is true to each writers own experience. If you feel overwhelmed with that, then call people who have left. We haven't grown horns, nor will we breath fire down your back. We all love & miss the true hearts of God we knew there. None of us are denying that there are those still there. My family personally felt like we could no longer support a system that is veering so far away from the very nature of God. God doesn't call us to do that either. He has so many aspects of his nature I never touched on in the box we lived in for so long there. It sounds like you are beginning to see clearly. Don't doubt for a second that God is the one that brought you to that place. :)

Also I read a lot and didnt see anything about Tacoma in there at all. Maybe I didnt read enough. I thought we are seperated from back east anyways. aren't we?

I think that the point that was being made is that exactly the same things that were going on in Lenox decades ago are what is going on in Tacoma today.

Cant we vote TP out?

I doubt it. Usually GG churches - and let's face it, most IAGM churches just changed their letterhead, not their theology or practises - do not have MEMBERS.

Im just not one that is big on the gossip train. Looks as if I should be.

Information and knowledge aren't gossip, although that isn't what Carl taught.

I was not going to go to the meeting on the 8th looks as if I should. Not that it matters. choices will be made without the voices of us. saw that at the last meeting. The choices were made and we were being informed. I didnt feel as what I had to say mattered anyways. Not really.

That's because you aren't really a MEMBER.

People I have known my whole life almost just to watch everyone go and then not even return an email later.

That's the rather typical "mark and avoid" behaviour that was learned in Lenox and supported to this day.

Pray for my own understanding.

I will and I'm sure others will, too.

Hi Dazed,

Welcome to the festivities!

Yeah -- lots to take in. Don't worry about trying to get it all at once. Or maybe ever....

I won't try and address all your questions. Concerning one point you raised:

Once upon a time, Tom Powell and a few others started a church named The Bible Speaks. Closely affiliated with TBS in Lenox, MA, the church in Tacoma was proud of their relationships woth Carl Stevens and BS. But as reported in detail here,

Between 1984 and 1985, Elizabeth (Betsy) Dovydenas gave $6.5 million to the Bible Speaks. She also changed her will, leaving her estate to the ministry and disinheriting her husband and children. In 1986 she and her family brought a lawsuit against Carl Stevens and the Bible Speaks, seeking to recover the $6.5 million. The court found in her favor, and this proved to be a pivotal event, as the Bible Speaks declared bankruptcy, lost their property in Lenox MA, and relocated to Baltimore.

At that point as BS became Greater Grace, many other affiliated churches also changed their names. Instead of telling the truth about the lawsuit, the closing down of bs in Lenox and the reasons behind changing their names, they literally began rewriting history. Example: this web page shows you a page from the Greater Grace Church of Tacoma website as it appeared in 2003. Read the "Meet the Pastor" section. it makes repeated references to your pastor's earliest connections with Greater Grace. The problem is -- as presented, its a fabrication. Greater Grace didn't exist until 1987. No one pastored a gg church in the 70's or early 80's.

Pastor Powell wanted the website to reflect his close personal relationship with Carl Stevens & Co., but without the "messy" truth about BS. So -- they covered it up by rewriting history.

Fast forward to a few years ago. Carl Stevens, head of gg, was put out to pasture. Many of his "spiritual sons" didn't like the new man in charge. Once it was a done deal that there was a new sheriff in Baltimore, they began disaffiliating from gg. Still pledging allegiance to Carl Stevens, but not to the new folks running his kingdom.

So -- GGC-Tacoma had another name change. The current LGM website's Meet Pastor TP page tells a story similar to the 2003 version, but -- not only no mention of bs -- now gg is gone as well. hmmmm....

Today, LGM-Tacoma is pretty well separated from gg-Baltimore and other gg churches. Technically anyway. I think. Who knows? They're all pretty closed mouthed about such things.

Spiritually, as far as I can tell, many of those former bs/gg pastors are still unwilling to acknowledge the truth about the lawsuit from 20 years ago, and the many other truths indicating bs/gg was built upon a false foundation from its very earliest times. Many still state that "there was much good that happened" and use such claims as a reason to defend the corruption that was bs and still is gg. (Literacy increased in the Soviet Union under communism. The communists used it as a "proof" as to how good communism was for the people. I guess, so long as you weren't one of the millions they murdered along the way...)

take your time. And please, please, please: dare to think for yourself. If you ask a question and aren't satisfied with the answer, ask again. And again. And 20 times if necessary. Don't let your questions and thoughts be silenced by someone implying that thinking and questioning is evil. The truth is never afraid of an honest question.

1. IF you want the info that he's talking about, just click on his name, then click on the PM button, then send him an email requesting the info.
2. What you have read up to this point about GGWO and Carl Stevens is very applicable to Tacoma and Tom Powell, since Tom Powell was a close disciple of Carl Stevens and Tom built his church after the model of GGWO, and Tom uses the same discipleship methods of Carl, which are very cultish at best.
3.The separation from back east was a sham. LGM separated from Tom Schaller, not Carl Stevens. Tom Powell still holds Carl Stevens in high esteem, i'm sure if you were to go to his house you'd see that portrait of Carl that used to be hung on his office wall, hung up somewhere in his house. The separation was only done so that LGM wouldn't be hurt by the fallout of the latest disgrace of Carl Stevens. Tom still holds close the teachings of Carl Stevens, though in word, he has rejected some of the more blatent ones, but not in deed.
4.What things are shocking you? How bad are they? How much will you need to see before you'll go to your pastor and confront him, as many of us did? When he marks you as a rebel, and begins to talk about you to his leadership, will you finally say, "that's enough for me, i'm out of here?"
5. You need only read the 200 pages of discuss Tacoma to find the reasons why many of us have left.
6.Why should you stay if your not in agreement with the system? Loyalty to Christ is good, don't mistake loyalty to Christ with loyalty to a church or a pastor.
7. Everything wrong can be fixed, but only if it is admitted of and repented of. This I don't see happening, simply because the pastor who controls the church (the board is just a bunch of yes men, of whom i was one) is hard headed and resolute that he will not change the Stevenistic philosophy of the church. Read WWW.carlstevens.org.
8. I'd love to see anyone suggest voting Tom out of his office. That person will be the next hot topic in closed door slandering.
9. Rich doesn't do kids church on wed. night. He only sets up for his wife who still goes there. Trust me, like me, he wouldn't step foot in that place if he had a choice.
10. Maybe you should speak to some who have left and get the real reasons that they left that place.
11. Why would you want to give and serve in a place that you have absolutely no say in what goes on, or where your money is spent, or even what the pastor makes for a salary?
12. No one here is mad at anyone that attends LGM, only that the pastor will not be open and honest about the history of his church and the man who founded it. That he will not admit that he learned all his Christian foundation from that man who is a very wicked man. B)
Enough for now. Seek and you shall find. Dan

Well I sure am getting what I asked for here. I am grateful for all of the insight to what I am involved in. Since I still attend LGM and will be sitting there tomorrow evening with my family I won't say who I am here. I am not ashamed of asking questions and getting answers but Id rather not be pin pointed at church. However...I took out my list of phone #'s Dan to call and guess what.......no one from here is on it. You know the church roster? I had your # and misplaced it. I did shoot an email to your wife with a request to call me. That was only earlier tonight. Was not expecting a call today. Just soon. And to Rich.... I only observed that you have been to the church. I didn't know it was to only set up for Sherry. All of this can be exhausting. Anyone else feel that way?

Just quickly if I misuse a name here when in reply dont take it personal I am confused after all LOL. :wacko:

I am the TRUTH!!!! gawds man for Tacomer!!!!!!
People who leave the best church in the world are OFF!!!
Stay because of ME YOUR PASTOR 4 LIFE!!!!
I am the ULTIMATE AUTHORITY nobody questions me.
Vote???? Vote???? Do you think church is a democracy??? Are you kidding? I am your church it is ALL ABOUT ME. PASTOR WORSHIP!!!

PASTOR WORSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM gawds MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is'nt this fun????.............................................
Is'nt this fun???? ............................................................

Show me the money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Dazed, I am not going to say who is who here but a lot of the people are still in the phone book.

Not a problem dazed. Yes, I have felt that way. I was there for almost 20 years and leaving was not immediate for me. I remember walking in to the main chapel and dreading sitting there to listen to a message that not only wasn't edifying to me, but was more of a drain of what little spiritual energy I had left.

Pastor Powell lost a huge part of his life when Carl Stevens fell because he was an honored and beloved son in the world of The Bible Speaks/Greater Grace World Outreach. He's literally lost and floundering without his spiritual father to guide him. It's sad and we should all remember to pray for him. He is living in fear and terror at all times, and pretending that everything is fine is hurting him more than he knows. I don't know how he does it. It can't go on like this forever.

Dazed, you got mail.

Rich brings up a good point. TP is really lost without Stevens. Don't look for any change of heart or repentance for a LONG time. It may come, but not without a long process probably after years.

The TP you knew that you could look up to, that would take care of things, that had the answers has left the building. The this guy is in total defense mode. He can't think at this point and reason the facts. His whole world as he's known it most of his adult life has melted away. He probably didn't realize how much he depended on Stevens.

If you approach this guy, forget the self-assured man you knew. He may look pretty much the same, but he's a mess inside.

Imagine being a pastor all these years and finding out you really don't have a mature relationship with the God that you have been preaching about all these years. It's really sad. I pray that he gets help.

Thank you Sierra, Rich, and others. The trolls that post here frequently (wrongly) believe that this a non-stop bash-fest for TP. He is more likely than not as confused and depressed as anyone here. He has a lot of unkind and misleading behavior to answer for of is own. However when Pastah Stevens' corruption was made public, TP in essence died spiritually and now the Holy Spirirt has been quenched at LGM.

Thank you guys for giving me some insight. It has helped me see where I am right now. Not sure I am ready to rush out. However I do know I will not be getting much out of service with all of this on my mind so heavily.

Thank you so much everyone here for your tender spirits towards TP, OHP, Sierra, Rich, Dan your hearts really are for true repentence & restoration. I can think back in the days when we would go to conventions & feel so special because of the high position TP was given by CHS. It was sort of like cheerleaders supporting our honored quarter back. We were proud of the relationship--he was honored--therefore we were honored to be under him. When that all came crashing down after LGM chose to split from the mother ship is when God started speaking so clearly to hearts that this is not what a relationship to HIM should be about. When the master manipulator fell, the dominoes followed in a hard crashing way. It truly is a sad way to come to the realization that God was not in that elite man honoring system. Realize it Tom, it's not too late.

Please come again

No need to rush at all.

We know exactly what you are talking about.

[FONT=Geneva][SIZE=7][COLOR=blue]

I will be back no worries there. Seems as though I can't read enough to quench what I'm searching out.

It's very simple dazed, if you do not sense Christ in the church you are going to, seek him to quench what is missing.

Went to service last night with an open heart. I tried to go there with out being too judge mental. That was not easy. At one point I was almost laughing out loud. I wonder if pastor believes in what he says himself. I will honestly say I didn't get too much out of anything he had to say just because I had so many things rushing through my head.

Rich, saw you setting up for Sherry. Really wanted to talk to you BUT thought maybe that was not the time or place.

At this point I am feeling a lot of guilt for questioning stuff. I know this might be a struggle for me for a while. I know God brought me to this point and has made some things clear to me in the past few days.

My spouse who is a bit confused at my thinking right now is even starting to see the light. He thought lasts nights message was a priming for the Saturday meeting. You have to understand that I have always always felt lead to be at BS, GG, LGM whatever we are calling ourselves these days. So for me to want to even consider leaving has my husband really asking questions too. Please keep praying for us. We have a whole family that would be impacted by a choice to move on. @ this point I feel like we are being programmed or primmed for what Pastor wants. I know we are not in a healthy place. God Bless.

Hi Dazed,

I lived in Finland for three years at the height of the Cold War. On a visit to Moscow once, I remember a really strange question a young man asked me, "Are there a lot of disasters in the United States?"

Eventually, I understood why a Soviet citizen might think this. Pravda ("truth") was a leading, nationally distributed newspaper at the time. I think each daily edition was all of eight pages long. Every day, 1/4-1/2 of the back page was dedicated to a disaster somewhere in the US. Weather, crime, accidents, etc. Every night, the 10:00 pm TV news ended with a report of a disaster in the US. (This from a country that didn't even tell anyone when they experienced the worst nuclear power plant accident / meltdown in history).

The Soviet government controlled media seldom if ever reported the truth about any domestic disasters, while never missing an opportunity to report on tragedies in the States. No wonder that young man asked that odd question...

In the gg system, the happy pills they dish out tell us that acknowledging the truth about their system is often wrong, sinful, carnal, critical, and reveals a lack of faith. While gladly pointing out the transgressions of the dissidents who dare speak out.

What nonsense! What evil lies!

They present their teachings wrapped in Bible verses, which are often misquoted or twisted out of context. The person in the pew too often assumes, "well, he is the pastor, he did go to Bible school, he really knows the Bible (mistaking quoting verses with true knowledge) -- he must be right. So this red flag of a question? I better hide it before someone sees it and thinks I'm wicked, carnal, backslidden and faithless." Next thing you know, you have enough flags to decorate the United Nations building. Except -- they're all red...

The truth is never afraid of an honest question.

How does the church support itself? i.e.: who pays the bills? The mortgage, utilities, insurance, salaries, supplies, etc.? You do. If you're to be a good steward of your money, you have every right to ask questions -- and to be given honest answers. No answers? Okay -- then no more money.

If you were about to entrust your child to the care of a stranger, you'd be within your rights to ask questions about their past, such as "any criminal record related to sex crimes involving children?"

If you're entrusting your time, emotions, finances and the care and feeding of your soul to an entity (church, preacher, whatever), you are within your rights to ask questions concerning their qualifications.

You are guilty of nothing for daring to have and ask questions! And if they're guilty of nothing, they should be perfectly happy and willing to answer you.

Dazed, believe me I know how hard this is for your family--so has it been for all of us. Pray & gently bring to your husbands attention that God is not the author of confusion, lies, manipulation, grief of his spirit etc. God is gracious, loving, provides clarity, peace in the soul, & truth. God can be found elsewhere. Don't let human mistakes, false shepherds, and bad church experiences keep you from seeking HIM out. LOL

Being told you should simply give the money, "trust God", sit down, shut up and not ask questions is twisted logic. The Bible says you should "prove (test) all things, and then hang on to that which is good."

As Ronald Reagan said in relationship to peace treaties with the Soviets. "Trust. And verify."

Since God's not signing the checks, trusting any PEOPLE because they tell you to trust God is sort of twisted logic, isn't it?

Telling us "look how many souls are being saved -- trust us!" is just as twisted.

Does the annual church report document exactly how many professions of faith were made? Does it explain how much money was spent on this outreach so you can determine if those signing the checks are being good stewards with your money? Or is it all just a warm fuzzy feeling you're supposed to have because someone smiled and said, "You can trust me"?

I'm only using finances as an example. The same principles apply with your time, in kind donations, etc.

Turn it around -- why can't THEY trust YOU with the facts and documentation to answer your questions? Allowing you to prove whether it's as good as they say. To verify they're actually doing what they say they are?

Baltimore folks help us out here. It's the ''why are you looking into why people have left'' attitude & ''just keep your eyes focused on Christ'' twist that is being perpetrated perpetually to people who have ''questions''.

The church spends money on outreach?

At this point I am feeling a lot of guilt for questioning stuff. I know this might be a struggle for me for a while. I know God brought me to this point and has made some things clear to me in the past few days. [COLOR=purple] Dear Dazed, So you are feeling guilty for something that the Holy Spirit is doing in your heart??? You just said it yourself, "I know God has brought me to this point". The guilt for having honest questions is just old programming that told us we couldn't have any other thought than what we were programmed to think from the Almighty Pulpit.
The Word of God says that the heart of the discerning seeks out wisdom.
You revealed very clearly in your last post that in so many words, you do not trust everything that you are being told, nor the motives behind the actions. Why would you want to continue to support a system that you cannot trust to be fully above the table?
My spouse who is a bit confused at my thinking right now is even starting to see the light. He thought lasts nights message was a priming for the Saturday meeting. You have to understand that I have always always felt lead to be at BS, GG, LGM whatever we are calling ourselves these days. So for me to want to even consider leaving has my husband really asking questions too. [COLOR=purple]Believe me, we were all where you are at. We all thought we'd be in that place for life--of course-- that is what we were told was the will of God, where else would we go when we were the "best" Christianity had to offer. A light bulb aha moment for me was when I realized that I am "called" to Jesus Christ. HE is the head of the church. I am to live in obedience to HIM. Meaning that I seek his wisdom and direction for my life and he will guide me as to where to join with others to worship Him, and BINGO, that place might change many times over the course of my life!
Please keep praying for us. We have a whole family that would be impacted by a choice to move on. [COLOR=purple]Believe me, we know what you are talking about; practically our whole family was in that place with now only one still holding on by her finger nails!
@ this point I feel like we are being programmed or primmed for what Pastor wants. [COLOR=purple] This has been going on MUCH longer than any of us would imagine. By the way, how does that feel- to be being manipulated I mean, that is what "programmed and primed" means you know.
I know we are not in a healthy place. [COLOR=purple] When you finally make the move, of which you are certain to as there is no going back once you can no longer trust the leadership, you will see the contrast SO starkly you'll shake your head and wonder why you didn't see it sooner. Sister in Christ, how could it do your family anything but an eternal blessing, to get them out of an unhealthy place?? We so often don't want to rock the boat, but it NEEDS to get rocked sometimes in our lives in order to get us to a better place-- and guess who is doing the rocking my friend?--you said it earlier, "I know God has brought me to this point".
God Bless. [COLOR=purple]He is. Now that we are in a place in our lives where He'll get the glory. Keep asking questions and don't be afraid to be vocal about it-- I wish I had been more vocal. Just watch what happens when you are though! I don't mean for any of this to sound scolding in any way; I just recognize your thought patterns and am wanting to point out that you are essentially answering a lot of your own questions. My biggest advice-- go to God and seek "does he want us to stay in this place or does he want us to go?" It isn't a matter of your opinion; its an obedience issue. This is God's decision. You'll save yourself a lot of grief if you keep the decision in God's lap and not your own. "But my friends are all there," many people have said. I say, so you are going to stay in a place because of your friends when God has clearly placed it on your heart that you have no peace here anymore? That is disobedience and placing your relationship with people above your relationship with God. Don't worry, there are a lot of great people "out there" that will add so much to your life, and many of the people you thought were friends will write you off faster than you can blink if you leave.
Anyway, I won't keep going on here, but do yourself a favor and shorten your exit time and save yourself some grief. Read www.carlstevens.org This is your churches heritage. Does it line up with the Bible? Is it something you want to uphold and promote and explain to your children someday? Does it remind you of Jesus?
Read the Walter Martin report. Read Tacoma 1 and Tacoma 2 for the reasons people left. the Truth is never afraid of an honest question. Seek God as His child, do what he tells you to do and do it quickly. Delayed obedience is disobedience-- just watch my 2 year old--Ha
God bless you too as you seek Him alone. He may reduce your life to just Him and you for awhile and that's ok, don't be afraid of that, its a good thing. And there are untold blessings ahead for those who walk in obedience to Him, not a man made system. :)

Wow am I in trouble? LOL. I'm kidding.

i'm confused too...i see the problem, i know the solution but something pulls me back :(

Bat-Ela, It is important for you, me, and everyone else to understand that this 'called to a particular local assembly', 'to one local pastor' stuff is not a Biblical teaching. The decision to stay or go is yours completely, as you pray and ask for God's wisdom. If you are not happy with the church you are in, if you are not getting the answers you are seeking, if you feel that you'd leave but you'd feel like your copping out, just remember, this is only a church, not Jesus. Though LGM puts dedication to the local church on par with Jesus Himself, you should not be swayed by this. The local church is not supposed to be a burden to your soul, but a benefit. Every church has problems, but if the church is supposed to be the beacon of light to the world, then their problems shouldn't include, lying, deceit, covering up of perversion, slandering etc. These should not be associated with church leadership, it they are they should be openly repented of and disassociated from, UNLiKE THE MEETING SAT. There are many wonderful churches out there that are touching to world around them for Christ, they are, in my opinion, far more effective than GGWO/LGM has every dreamed of being. Once on the outside, you'll see just how ineffective and small minded GGWO/LGM really is.
DAN MURPHY

Bat, unfortunately sometimes the things that keep us from going is the fear that what has been said by ex-GGWOers is true. Will you be marked, will all of your friends think you are the spawn of satan, will you be leary of trust, will you be infected, the list goes on & on. I ask you, are these behaviours of the loving God in the Bible? God never shuts a door, but as we have seen so clearly, the door has been shut to non members in particular from ever returning & being restored. That is just not right! Does God call us to endure corruption in the hope that it will change? Does God look lightly on corruption? I truly believe the leadership at LGM has lived this way for so long, they can't even see anything wrong with it. It will be God's timing to reveal it clearly to them. Do we have to stay on the Titanic until that happens? Ask God some hard questions you are feeling & listen to HIS responses alone.

I can honestly say for years before finally leaving I would pray about being confused. Since I have left that prayer is no longer needed. I am no longer confused. The light has finally come on & things are very clear. My God is the hope of all glory!

I can not but say AMEN to that! Life IS wonderful outside of cults and in Christ. When I was in the GGWO I really did not experience the truth in John 10:7-15 about the sheep and the 2 kind of shepherds. Now I understand the passage much better and I enjoy the pasture, the life, the freedom and the true Good Shepherd who knows me.

This is my 86th post to the forum. When I joined to the DiGGWO on 8 June -06, I became the member nr 86. Statistics is amazing :D

Mr. Pentti Perttula
Pori, Finland, Europe

Bat-Ela I like your name! Hebrew for Daughter of God.

I was in your shoes about a year ago and it didn't hit me until this past summer when Tom Powell gave me the nudge that I needed to get out the doors and I can say that I am actually a lot more free then I have ever really felt in my entire life. God is faithful that I pretty much all I know. Trust God let the Holy Spirit lead you. When I left Living Grace Ministries I really took the time to research what I had been under my whole life and I was not happy when I read all the information on TBS/GGWO/LGM/IAGM from many different people. I hope you take the time to research what you are apart of and be prayerful of what the Spirit wants from you.


Joe

Thank you Joe for the advice,i'll keep this in prayer...and yeah,my name means that well,my nickname cause for obvious reasons i ca'nt use mine...not yet but someday ...hopefully soon :rolleyes:

No Problem, any time. Take your time if you need too.

Joe

I'm confused too... and even more when tonight got an e-mail from a friend that their family is leaving too.... I've been on this site reading for 3 hours now... still don't quiet get what is going on. On some other forums former attendies of LGM said they are being discussed and gossiped and slandered...... I haven't heard any of that .. But of course i don't like to gossip (learned in my life , there are always two sides of the story) . And from what I understood from reading posts nobody here points out the problem just encourages us "the confused ones" to seek on our own. As To Dr.S. from my very beginning of bein g involved with GG tacoma never understood why it was so important to go to Baltimore and all that ra-ra about the summer conventions. always been skeptical about that.


Joe would you mind if I ask why you were pointed to the door? If tits too personal just ignore my ?.

"Confused" Check your email.



Joe

Did, no e-mails...

Umm........ That's weird. It may take a while I notice that, that happens sometimes. If not let me know.

Joe