Loyal members of Living Grace Ministries constantly criticize us on this forum because we allegedly accuse leadership of sin. This thread has been created to demonstrate the following:
1. LGM leadership has claimed that they "repented of all that stuff," but it is all still in practice to this day.
2. LGM leadership has repented only of the things that they have openly addressed to the congregation and the public. Does anybody have an example? I don't.
3. Secretive confession and repentance isn't repentance at all.
4. This organization has misused scriptures and privately interpreted scriptures and taught it's leaders to do the same since it's inception in Maine.
5. We are not talking about personal sin. We are talking about blind obedience to a diseased organization and the compelling evidences of this.

This is not a comprehensive statement about the purpose of this type of information. This thread is only useful if it quotes directly from any of the literature of The Bible Speaks World Outreach/Greater Grace World Outreach and the published or printed text from affiliated branch ministries if applicable, crediting the source. The history of this organization is in no need of exaggeration or embellishment. It is fascinating only if it is factual.

So for my first entry I'll pick The Doctrine of Privacy from page 48 of the Church Leadership and Administration (CLA) handbook compiled and edited by Daniel E. Lewis, D. Th.

"The following is the true doctrine of privacy:"

"1. There should be no meddling with a pastor's marital relationship. Presumption and interfering is not anyone's responsibility. If things happen that are revealed publicly, it is up to the pastor or his wife to seek help from those over him. Whoever witnesses any problems should cover that pastor and his wife by never discussing it with anyone even with the observer's spouse. If the pastor refuses to deal with the problem he may be having, whoever observes the problem should go to the pastor alone in the spirit of meekness and ask if they can help and seek to encourage the pastor to get counsel. If the pastor refuses to seek counsel, the observer then should only go to the one over the pastor for help and then leave it with the overseer of the pastor to deal with the pastor. Constant covering of the pastor and his wife is imperative--no discussion and no revealing to anyone else."

Now I'm not sure about everyone else, but when I read that the observer goes alone to the pastor, it reminds me of Matthew 18:15-18, but why is it that the rest of that passage is ignored in this text? The words of Jesus in Matthew 18 get a lot of attention in that organization, but I think that they have no idea what He said, what He meant, or what He was talking about, and certainly no idea how it applies. This paragraph uses the word "pastor" 11 times and there are only 7 sentences. That is strange all by itself.

It would almost seem that GG/LGM pastors are put in a place above the average Christian. Is the spiritual 'gift' of pastor a higher calling or a more important gift than the others? It certainly is in the GG/LGM circles. I just wonder if it is able to be backed up with scripture? There is no question that in GG/LGM the role of the pastor has been taken way beyond it's biblical description to a level that almost equals worship, for sure idolatry.
i·dol·a·try
1. the religious worship of idols.
2. excessive or blind adoration, reverence, devotion, etc.

This is certainly the case in Tacoma Living Grace Ministries. It is evidenced by the irrational defenses that are given to rational questions and statements. People are defending TP without question or thought because they've been taught by him and Carl Stevens to do so. The majority of the LGM posters on the Tacoma thread have yet to answer any question posed to them regarding the system and culture that is LGM, instead they come back with vague and general statements that are either hurtful or say relatively nothing except "i'm loyal to pastor Powell no matter what". This kind of loyalty is cultish unless it is to Jesus alone. Dan

Return to page 48 and read point # 3...

:)

Thank you OHP. Here is another excerpt from "The true doctrine of privacy" on page 48:

"3. Whatever the Pastor receives for salary or monies given to him are his own private business."

There has been a lot of speculation on this site about the amount of "monies" given to Tom Powell between his base salary and all of the perks associated with it. I have not personally seen the books but there are people that I know and trust that have, and have verified that Tom Powell has a very large sense of entitlement when it comes to the finances of his church. The lgm has modeled itself after the ggwo and an organization that tells it's congregation (which are not members) that they have no business knowing the actual amount given to the pastor out of the budget is definitely hiding something.

When one of my kids is trying to get away with something by hiding it she alerts me because of the evasion tactic, like putting it behind her back and walking backwards with a "nothing is out of the ordinary here" look on her face.

Every time I am told to shut up about the facts that are being uncovered that implicate wrongdoing at the lgm it is another "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" moment and I only get louder and louder in drawing attention to it.

Point III on page #30

:unsure:

Actually the point of the thread is to allow anyone to quote from the text, not just me.

I just read that section of the Leadership book and it's about false shepherds. If you wouldn't mind transcribing it OHP I would be grateful. It's very telling. By the way, for those of you in the system that are guilty of pastoral idolatry, you will be judged by your own words, and that section of the book is no exception.

I will now turn to page 163 and hit just a few verses that the ggwo misused to tell people that it is wrong to enjoy alcohol in moderation. Their stance is total abstinence. I no longer believe in total abstinence because of the blatant misuse of verses like in the following section:

WHEN A CULTURAL PRACTICE COMES IN CONFLICT WITH THE WORD OF GOD, ONE NEEDS TO WEIGH HEAVILY THE IMPORTANCE OF OBEYING GOD. A SERVANT OF GOD REFLECTS THE ONE WHOM HE SERVES. WHAT PLEASES GOD IS ALL THAT MATTERS. REJECTION, DISGUST OR OFFENSE OVER TOTAL ABSTINENCE IS A SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR NOT OFFENDING GOD. JESUS WAS A FRIEND OF SINNERS AND PUBLICANS WITHOUT COMPROMISING HIS FOLLOWING STATEMENTS AND RECORD: (Rebuttal: I wonder if Carl H. Stevens, Jr. knew that he was offending God while making purchases in his favorite liquor store...)

ALCOHOL AND THE BIBLE'S STATEMENTS ABOUT IT

Gen. 9:20-24: Noah became drunk and uncovered in his tent (R: don't have one here, getting drunk is a sin. Before and after this time Noah likely enjoyed moderation. After all, he planted an entire vineyard, so there was more wine to go through, and he probably took it easy from then on. He was about 600 years old at this point, so he knew how to learn from his mistake)

Gen. 27:25: Isaac drank wine. (R: this is a fascinating reason to not drink wine: because Isaac did? I understand Isaac was getting fooled here by Jacob, but the only reason I can think of that it is wrong based on this verse is that the ggwo has no respect for Isaac in the teaching that I remember. So the moral of the story must be something like: don't drink or you'll end up like Isaac?)

Lev 10:9: Conduct prescribed for priests--do not drink wine. (R: Yes the priests were not to drink while on duty. This is true for everyone who drinks. The moral of the story here is: don't drink on the job. In Deut. 14:26-27 the Levites could drink alcohol during celebration times)

Deut 29:2-6: Children of Israel - did not drink wine or similar drink. (R: No they did not, when they were wandering for 40 years in the wilderness with no land of their own and their food provided by God through the manna and they couldn't store it for even just a few hours! You have to be retarded to believe that the people of Israel didn't grow vineyards immediately after settling down in the promised land and celebrate with wine after decades of nomadic wandering, and by the way God encouraged this in Deut. 16:12-14)

Judges 13:4,7,14: Drink no wine or similar drink (R: It's true, that Samson's mother was supposed to abstain during her pregnancy! For crying out loud! Did ggwo leadership honestly believe that we wouldn't look at these verses?!)

I Sam 1:14-15: Hannah did not drink wine or strong drink. (R: For the ggwo leadership to include this passage is totally absurd. OK, at this point I recommend reading this stuff for yourself so that you can see I'm not making it up. Hannah was accused of drunkenness because she was moving her lips during prayer while in anguish over her barren state. She simply told the priest "you are mistaken, I am not drunk.")

Luke 1:15: Jesus Christ would not drink wine or strong drink. (R: This one is my favorite. I won't ruin it for you. Read it for yourself and enjoy a good laugh on me.)

Here's the capstone comment at the end of the text on page 165:

*SECRET DRINKING IS A SIN THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BE FOUND OUT. (R: You think so? Well, if people start using their heads and reading the bible for themselves and stop buying ridiculous logic like that which was presented here, they might see for themselves that what you meant to say was:
**HYPOCRISY IS A SIN THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BE FOUND OUT.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I submit to you that you must study this for yourselves. The bible explicitly states the pros and cons of alcohol consumption, and after reading hundreds of verses on the subject you will find a common theme: Drunkenness is a sin and leads to horrible behavior. Drinking in moderation is acceptable. If you cannot drink without getting drunk, then don't drink at all. It has less to do with Christian testimony as much as it has to do with SELF CONTROL.

Parents of children can give a great gift to their children if they pass on the character traits of MODERATION and SELF CONTROL rather than abstinence because without exception prohibition leads to rebellion.

***Ultimately we have to ask ourselves:
IF THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GGWO MISUSED BIBLE VERSES IN THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT, WHERE ELSE DID THEY MISUSE THE BIBLE TO MISLEAD PEOPLE IN THEIR BELIEFS?

Are you kidding me? This is about the worst case of mistaken identity that I've every seen...

Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day. Page #30 of the official GGWO Leadership manual contains an outline to define the characteristics of FALSE SHEPHERDS.

I present this to our site NOT to single anyone out rather so that you can pray for these men…
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Isaiah 56:10-12 – blindness, ignorant, dumb dogs, sleeping, can’t understand; selfish; looking for their own gain.

Isaiah 9:15 – last in life

Deuteronomy 18:22, 13:5 – don’t follow – they speak lies

Jeremiah 2:8 - don’t know God; unprofitable

Jeremiah 5:31; 14:14; 23:2, 16 – false prophecy; liars

Jeremiah 50:6 - turned people away from truth

Ezekiel 13:2; 22:28; 34:2 – prophesy out of their own hearts, devising lies; feed themselves

Hosea 9:7 – fools, multitude of iniquity; great hatred

Michah 3:5 cause God’s people to err; cry false peace

Zephaniah 3:4 – treacherous, polluted God’s sanctuary; done violence to the law

Zechariah 13:3 – speak lies and should be stopped

Matthew &:15; 24:11 – sheep’s clothing but inwardly ravenous wolves, deceivers

Mark 13:22 – signs and wonders to seduce – deceive even the elect

John 10:12 – hirelings, scatter the sheep