On the Soul Power thread "Who Me" posted Sep 10 2007, 01:43 PM

I think it is important to note that this lack of acknowledging the past may have been recognized initially at Sandy Cove but for Chairman Powell and many of the dwindling IAGM constituents there has been a change of tone and a backing down. To him (chairman Powell) and them there still is a legacy, a special message and purpose and if it weren’t for that darn Schaller guy everything would be copasetic the world would be right and they all would continue to be the elite group of remnant Christians instead of a marginalized group of high control pastors that have lost their identity. Many of these types of messages are being preached at IAGM churches, to me this is more egregious than a behavior that has been consistent for 30 plus years. Because it is like double-disingenuousness (if that is a word?) [I][B][U]

It is a word now! People make the language for what is needed in the times they live in. Of course, an easier one would be nice.

Not sure if this is accurate or not: That IAGM will be shifting down to St. Petersburg, FL and Dan Lewis will be head of it. Anyone hear of this?

Sierra-I think there may be a chapter in a book set aside for you. Very good writing and you nail it with the then and now reality. Imagine the priest's of Israel doing the business of the temple one day, oblivous to the bleak landscape they had created for the poor and marginalized. Imagine the year 587bc and the hords of babylonians that would cart them off as slaves. Imagine being in Babylon 2 years later insisting that if it hadn't been for that darn Nebecanezzar and a his goon's things would be right with the world. Imagine, (bear with me please!) them attempting to conduct business and be viewed the same way they were in Jerusalem! God sent them into Babylon because in service to the Temple they found they no longer needed God. And, woe to those that were less then them. The courtyards were filled with after temple rap sessions. The picture of IAGM is of an elderly actor caking makeup on with old tattered, dated clothing attempting to play a role they were never really good at anyway. Sad caricatures of a deceptive past. Little boys in emperor clothing with little swords and much smaller kingdoms. B film roles without enough sense to realize that some B street stuff is very cool if you only acknowledge it.

Having said all that...thanks for a good insightful post.

I am sure there are some IAGMrs that see and understand this, I guess many of them have chosen to step down from their pulpits and step into normal. My hope is that some will stand up against this nonsense like Paul rebuking Peter and recommend to those that are in power and still living in this arrogant delusion to humble themselves and get help. I doubt geography and a change of administrator will change delusional foolishness and pride. Those that remain should demand a clear stand and statement against GGWO, seek help for all those in their churches who have suffered through spiritual abuse for years as well as get counseling for the serious Kool-Aid addicts.

For those who suffered through this bombshell overseas instead of just trying to keep a splinter group in tact why not come clean and tell them (the overseas people) all the facts when our eyes were truly opened. Help them to make decisions that are best for them and their families. If it is time for them to move on then celebrate that and not view it as a loss for the new kingdom. Helping put things in order might bring in a blessing.

Dan Lewis rightfully and humbly admitted the wrongs of the last 40 years and still that did not change the righteous elite. Are there any Pastors who have looked into and studied spiritual abuse and high control groups? (I certainly didn't see this as a topic on any of the numerous conferences and conventions) What steps have they taken to get help for themselves and the churches they represent? For those who are still there has anyone in leadership acknowledged the truth of the Walter Martin report? Maybe the reason the group and many of the churches are dwindling is because those who remain in leadership have not disavowed themselves from this nonsense, called it what it truly is "High Control Spiritually Abusive Christianity" and possibly God hasn’t blessed it because there remains a lack of honesty and care for the many who have been mistreated and spiritually abused not just from the Home Base but from their own little churches.

I've met with Dan Lewis in recent months. I hadn't seen him in 26 years. I think the IAGM would benefit from a move south and Dan re-creating the model. Or doing the funeral service. I'm not sure if IAGM would be good for him however....

A lot of us are scared & confused.

I would be scared and confused too if I were in IAGM and Dan was supposed to "recreate a model."

IAGM is not a church. The administrator is not the overseer. The only thing Dan can do is facilitate member communication and member decision making. All members are equal while some have more influence than others. I am not sure how many member churches there are anymore. Maybe it only consists of the Board of Representatives and that's it.

My problem which IAGM is that they were too relaxed in their standards at the beginning. All disaffiliates were welcomed, no questions asked. It was more of a fellowship for those with a common "heritage". Many members figured out that they did not need to contribute to or belong to IAGM to fellowship with the other disaffiliates which is really all IAGM offered. It did not really add any value or credibility to their ministries.

If IAGM wants to be credible at this point, they need to do several things. Some would include:

Having an honest outside examination of their teachings and culture and publish the results.
Have their own publicly available ordination standards and require all pastors to be re ordained under those standards. This can include retraining.
Have a real accountability program which includes financial audits and reviews of the pastors.

What is the point of belonging if membership does not really mean anything? Many people go a Calvary Chapel church because they HAVE heard of it. People go to gg and IAGM churches because they HAVE NOT heard of them, because if they had, they would stay away.

Dan would never allow an outside evaluation because they would find out about a lot of stuff he never repented of. But don't worry, he'll be doing a pilgrimage to Lenox Laser eventually anyway.

I think the IAGM board of directors should have a quick vote to restore fellowship with the heritage and make all this nightmare go away. Won't it be nice! Quickly Boys click your heals three times and start saying "There's no place like home, there's no place like home" You can take Toto too!

Imagine squeaking voices but very big men dancing down The Yellow Brick Road to Maryland singing,

"We're off to see the Wizard
the wonderful Wizard of Oz
because, because, because, because...."

I would preach away the hours
(make people) take notes that give me power
If I only had a brain....

Hmm.

I see a video coming! Send us some lyrics and we will see what we can do.

I recently have been pondering the whole wizard of Oz story and how it relates to people who have these types of experiences we have had.

I do have to say however that by the style it looks like those lyrics came from someone who is already in IAGGWOM.

Ultra Poneros Productions

If you would like to join IAGGWOM and become a part of Ultra Poneros drop us a line at IAGGWOM@gmail.com

Wait..... I have to come up with some rules for the organization before you can join!
Maybe some

Good guess.

BTW that is a real email address **IAGGWOM@gmail.com** Persia and Greek in Baltimore drop us a line and anyone else who isn't afraid of being negatively influeced by outside sources.

Well,

Its because we have negatively infected each other so bad we are simultaneously hatching identical cockatrice eggs.

man.. we got to do something with cockatrice eggs. As soon as we do the Family Feud bit we will work on that one.. ok. How bout a veggie tales video like the Giant Fib but we could do one with Cockatrice eggs hatching everywhere growing into serpents

BTW I am the man behind the curtain.
Pay no attention to me!

Obviously it wasn't too hard to guess!

Your hours got cut back at work this week? ;)

I already know the answer

ναι ο καλός φίλος μου

Let us not forget how distraught TP was over Daniel Lewis' repentance letter. "If all these things were so wrong back then, WHY DIDN'T HE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT THEN!!!!!!!! (Tom's words). IAGM is nothing more than the new GGWO.
As for these pastors, they need a long sabbatical to heal and recover before they ever lead people again.

Many of these pastors need to thoroughly relearn their theologies and need retraining from healthy non-cultic ministries with a solid balanced knowledge of the Bible. Sadly too many of these pastors are too proud to admit they have a big problem and need to step down for quite a while for retraining. Another reason to avoid the IAGM altogether along with GGWO.

It's really, really good to hear from the Tacoma folks. Thanks for posting. Please keep doing so. The rest of us need to hear from you.

Wait -- WHAT?! I never heard anything about this. I spoke with Dan Lewis several times as he was drafting his letter. Got a copy of it from him when he was still "shopping for a publisher" on FN, Discuss, CarlStevens.org, etc. Along with many others, I encouraged him to publish the letter, and commended him for doing so.

But -- WHAT?! Publication of it bothered TP?! Please tell us more!

(If you never saw it, we are referring to A Declaration of Repentance and a Plea for Forgiveness, by Dan Lewis, dated December 9, 2005.)

I was always taught, believed, and taught others that "repentance" was something you did when you realized you were wrong. You identified exactly WHAT you did and WHY it was wrong. And then you CHANGED your behavior and STOPPED doing what you used to do. Or as Jim Chase used to sing, "those chickens I used to steal, I don't steal 'em no more!"

So if Dan
(1) identified illicit, immoral, unethical and/or unchristian things he had personally done
(2) confessed those actions as sin
(3) asked for forgiveness and
(4) committed to make things right with those he had offended -- which part of that could possibly upset someone committed to preaching the "full counsel of the Word of God"?!

While I agree with the sentiment of the quote attributed to Tom (that ALL those "in the know" should have spoken the truth YEARS ago), what about him? I understood the Sandy Cove documents to mean that he and others thought there were problems in gg which had been there for a long time. Did I totally misunderstand?

Did I do the right thing (leave gg) for the wrong reason? :D

What was Tom disaffiliating from? Does he still believe Carl Stevens is an apostle, as used to be taught in the bs ministry? (If that's the case, maybe he'd like to look up directions to Lenox Laser?)

How about the many, many questions which were asked by "the main leaders of the affiliates" (Tom Powell's words) prior to the first Sandy Cove meeting? Were they legitimate, valid questions? Many (most?) of those questions have never really been fully answered. GG never will answer them. Apparently, IAGM, aka "GG-Lite" will never answer them either...

If you've never read those hundreds of questions, which were the basis for the SC1 meeting, I urge you to at least skim them. Start on page 9 of this pdf file. (That "main leaders" quote above was from page 6 of this document).

If you realize that these questions were being asked by the main leaders of the affiliates, then you can see that by the first SC meeting (actually, long before it), these guys were ADMITTING there were SERIOUS problems in Mecca. If they found the cojenes to ask the questions and acknowledge the problems -- why retreat from that search for the truth?

I think there are areas of our lives (all of us ex-ers and refugees) that will be screwed up forever. We will heal, but we will be scarred and not quite normal in those areas -- forever. I can't think of one of those pastors who should not retire from the pulpit. Now. To stop passing on the kool aide, no matter how hard they "try" to be a good shepherd.

The exggwo pastors need more than a sabbatical. A sabbatical is a rest for a servant of God who has been diligently working for years and needs some time to rest and regenerate.

These men need counseling. Ok, if you are an exggwo pastor, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Follow these steps.

1. Do not get into any type of leadership.

2. Get a REAL job and give your wife and the kids you still have a break.

3. Then get into some sort of counseling.

4. Make friends outside of GGWO. Don't tell them that you were a "pastor."

5. Spend time on your marriage and family. You have probably neglected them.

6. Read the bible regularly and shut up.

7. Learn to listen to people and learn the art of conversation.

8. Don't you dare take your eyes of our merciful God. Because if some of you do, it will kill you or make you live in denial.

9. Say these words ten times a day: "I was wrong." Then use it in applicable situations. You'll be surprised.

10. Do that thing that you always wanted to do. You know what it is. Have fun.

I watched Jennie McCarthy tonight on Larry King Live. I listened to her speak with such passion about her mission to bring hope to families affected by autism. She spoke about the her son and Larry asked if he was cured. She said she did does not use the term "cured." She said it is like being hit by a bus. Are you ever cured? She said her son has "recovered." All of us ex-members were hit by a bus. GG intersected with us and changed our lives forever. As John so aptly said:

"We will heal, but we will be scarred and not quite normal in those areas -- forever."

Maybe we heal, but there is no cure for being hit by the TBS/GGWO bus. I do believe we "recover" All of us, whether we left in 1981 *conspiracy* or the FN exodus or now, are in a process of recovery... recovering life. It is not easy but it is real and free. I do think the leaders in the IAGM had an opportunity to be a part of the recovery effort two years ago and DID NOT seize the moment handed to them as a group of leaders and have hindered the process for many by their lack of insight and courage. But then again the story of the exodus has always been about others, the non-elite leading others out. It would seem the exiles of Tacoma are these men. Greg, you have become your name, the Restorer!


I wrote this *plea* over two years ago to Tom Powell and the other leaders of the new IAGM. This is the consclusion of that post where I equated the fall of communism to a joint effort of the Solidarity Movement in Poland and Ronald Reagan seizing the moment in his "ash heap of history" speech . The IAGM never did seize their moment....


From September 2005:
Wise men consider the history before them for instruction. Ronald Wilson Reagan was a keen observer. We now can look back from our vantage point and call this a historic message. But at the time of this speech, many rebuked him, mocked him and rebuffed him for not being diplomatic. How dare he?? was the cry of many. And why did he dare? He dared because he was keenly intuned to the moment, the landscape.. he had watched the lowly shipyard workers in Poland unite. He saw a lowly electrician brave enough to risk death for freedom and doing the right thing. President Reagan seized the moment.

The leaders of the IAGM are "The Statesmen" of our story. You have the podium and the pulpit. There is no legacy that needs or deserves diplomacy. All of you have gone the diplomatic route for two years. Did it accomplish anything? What has God revealed, but a Evil Empire. We are the lowly shipyard workers of Gdansk, we have loudly protested evil and the systematic destruction of the human spirit, the destroying of families. We have done our part. We did seize the moment.. now it is your turn. History has recorded the effects of Ronald Reagan, The Statesman and the brave shipyard workers changing the course of history. BOTH were needed. What would our world look like today if that speech was not made? Maybe we would have never heard these words, spoken again by The Stateman "Mr. Gorbachev, Tear down this Wall!"

I am sorry.. I didn't sign my name to the last post.

WOW on the bottom of page 12 of the document John Collins linked with his last post. It is under heading B Relational/Behavioral Issues of GGWO Elders in Relation to the Affiliates.
It seems the LGM senior leadership might be guilty of at least 50% of these questions and issues as it pertains to any one that has left the LGM church recently (last two years)

Here is an exerpt of an email that was shared with me after someone I knew left the church. This person told me that it was not a confidential email and didn't mind me sharing it. I have taken out any names that were mentioned but doesn't this sound earily familiar to the concerns expressed in that Sandy Cove document

The more that things change the more they stay the same

Many things that happen in life scar you. But scar tissue is stronger than flesh. If we lived in other parts of the world, we would have suffered war, famine, etc. Yes we got run over by a bus, but we LIVED! And no, we aren't innocent anymore. But we have a lot more wisdom, patience, etc.

I would change/add on Sierra's comments by saying that if I had to do it over again (Leave) I'd ponder old wisdom teachers that work as guides. In the AA tradition they're called sponsors. In the Celtic tradition they are anamchara.

Do you have an anamchara, the Celtic word for “soul friend” or “spiritual director”? Tracy Balzer’s second chapter, in Thin Places, is a delicate and insightful survey of the Celtic practice and how spiritual direction or soul friendship can be developed in our world.

Here are our questions: Do you have any experience with spiritual direction? Either as the director or the one receiving direction? Experience with spiritual friendships or soul friends?


St. Camgall of Bangor, a 7th Century saint, said “it is not good to be your own guide.” Many of us are. Do we need to rethink our independence, our rugged individualism, and consider having an anamchara? St. Brigid, a 6th Century saint, said “a person without a soul friend is like a body without a head.”

A soul friend provides sanctuary — a safe place to reveal, to ponder, and to learn — and confession — so that the words may be heard in an audible way making us more aware of our sins and accountability.

We lack safe places today and we grow restless in spirit — we are afraid to voice our honest questions because of fear of condemnation. An anamchara can help.

Tracy tells the story of a friend who spoke to her students about the “power of the secret” (life) and the need to “break the secret.”
The anamchara asks questions and listens well. In essence, the anamchara enables a person to hear from God, listen to God, and to walk the life of faith better.

It is not good to be your own guide… that statement, at the close of the chapter, was what I was looking for when I left TBS.

"In times of deep change the temptation is to forget who we are, with whom we belong, and the God we serve."

TBS/GG/IAGM(isms) didn't keep their promises. Empires seldom do.

Hi Folks,

For the dear believers in Tacoma, I would urge you to test the waters of the new affilation and bring your grievances to IAGM. Tom Powel professed at SC and Chicago along with many others their willingness to submit to a process - one sorely missing in GGWO, one of the key reasons for IAGM's formation.

If you have addressed your concerns to Tom Powel and made no progress, I would suggest writting or calling Dan Lewis and asking for some form of mediation. If your not comfortable with Dan, there are others that should be available to help you. I think you should test the organization and let them prove themselves.

Did Dan ever repent about how he was with finances????

No, but he lied about how much he got when he sold his home and tried to imply that he was living in a van down by the river in Florida and hadn't bought a sweet little condo.

Does anyone have any facts on this...so if someone from IAGM was reading, they'd realize that you didn't just make that up.

Here's the entire thread:

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/1...html?1125863261

Here's where the information starts to come out:

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show...2733#POST192733

Oh boy...geesh!

You guys need to register so that people can PM or email you.

So this is Wondering no more, Guest. I registered. Your turn.

John, sorry took so long to get back. Yes, TP was distraught over the repentance letter. TP believes that the problems with 'the ministry' have only existed 5-7 years. Therefore for Lewis to stir up these things is not acceptable. Apparently they made an agreement to not stir up more trouble because Lewis is now pilferring money from missionaries in his new position as head of IAGM. Tom,i bleieve spearheaded this appointment. Feels sorry for Lewis for all his years of service to the body of Christ then thrown out on his rear. Maybe we should have asked some of the people whose live were shipwrecked because of Lewis. A rich and wonderful heritage. blah!

I would really like to know if TP spear-headed the Lewis appointment.

As was mentioned on another thread there was a meeting in Tacoma early 2007 (BTW not mentioned to all the IAGM members) to replace Ken (who felt his time was up) and pass the mantle to Dan. TP and Dan have a close friendship. Even though he was disapointed with Dan crying and sobbing and repenting openly at Sandy Cove as well as him sending out the repentence letter a few months later. He feels sorry for Dan being left with nothing. I think he also sees this as an opportunity to have a greater control of direction for the IAGM (Ken and him don't always see eye to eye and Ken is not easily pushed around) by banking on their friendship and his generousity to give him the only paid position in the organization. I doubt there will be any push-back from the administrator.

Ken had $$$ that is why he can not be pushed around.
His ideas and reforms are not new it is however
he can say things that the rest of us would be marked for.

I can't understand why an intelligent man who didn't spend his youth in GGWO would stay...

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Just drink deeply of the kool aid and soon all intelligence will fade away. "Teaching" will replace rational and objective thinking. You'll become a loyalist and do the bidding of your master.