ok vee, I have a few questions for you.

1. You have been known to say time after time that the ps3 will sell more consoles than the 360, so I would like to know where you got your information that led you to believe this, and I would like you to explain why you believe this.
I on the other hand, will supply you with this:
http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?weekly=1
no, look at the chart, notice the pattern? notice which consoles are winning? an notice which console ISN'T catching up?


2. You claim that compression makes games shittier.
well, would you care to explain what compression is? and how it works? can you tell me what it is about compression that leads you to believe that compression will lead to worse textures and music?
Nintendo is known for their compression, and their consoles have always had great compression capabilities.
I used the mario, crash bandicoot reference, but was told that the two games are too different, so I supply you with this:
Tony Hawk Pro Skare 2:
N64 = 12 mb
PS1 = 350 mb COMPRESSED INTO A .RAR, even larger in it's natural format.
so, 2 identical games, and I have played both, there is no audio or visual difference between the 2.
yet such a huge size difference.
let me bring the gamecube to attention, with you bitching about game sizes, the gamecube did quite well for only having 1.5gb, didn't it? Resident Evil 4 anybody?
Now, I have provided my facts, and information on game compression, I want you to do the same, disprove me.


3. You say that GTA:IV would have been better if it was ps3 exclusive, yet you don't take into account that it was the ps3 that delayed the game, and the ps3 that they're having trouble programming the game for.
The game was on schedule for the october 360 release, but the ps3 delayed it.
if it were ps3 exclusive I don't think R* would of been able to implement most of the stuff included in the game.
Programming a game for an easier console, and then porting it to the more difficult console is the most obvious choice, as the easier console will allow you to work out most of the game in a stress free enviroment, instead of diving headfirst into a difficult console.
the reason SEGA failed as a console developer was because it's consoles were too hard to dev for, the Multiple processors of the dreamcast made it very difficult, and the CELL processor in the ps3 doesn't make things easier.
Now, vee, please explain how making a game ps3 exclusive would have made a game like gtaIV better. But Note that you are not taking capacity into account here, this is based strictly on the Deving side of things, GTAIV already fits on a standard dvd, and would have fit on a standard dvd regardless of what it was programmed for.
so, on the programming side of things, what is it about the ps3 that makes programming games better? and please, supply some facts with this.



I'll leave you with those 3 for now, and will have more later.
I want full answers to these, AND links and facts to back you up.
I want you to convince me that the entire world is wrong, and the entire web is wrong.
every sales figure, and number is wrong. I want you to disprove everybody about everything.

go ahead, make me believe a SINGLE word you say.
but please, stay on topic, don't turn every answer into a rant about blu-rays disk capacity, because there is no arguing over that. we already know bluray won, and the capacity is large.
these questions aren't related to it, and I want to see how you do without blu-ray to fall back on.

GO!

So your anti-P$3 then

so many faults there vette

1. How could you ever know that GTA4 would not have been better, your simply basing it out of the current gta4 , gta4 could have been completely different if it was a ps3 exclusive so that question is just pointless.

2. PS3 has blue-ray support, seeing blue ray won the battle the ps3 should be able to use that as an advantage. Its like saying a new console can be controlled by brainwaves but you cant use that as an argument, because of course that will be better. THAT IS JUST PLAIN STUPID

3. Compression does remove things take for example the mp3, it filters out sounds that cant be heard by the human hear hence saving space, but the sound quality is being lost you just dont recognise it.

THE PS3 IS SIMPLY THE BETTER CONSOLE AND XBOX 360 IS HOLDING IT BACK, THE ONLY TIME I WOULD HAVE AGREED WITH YOU IS SAYING THE PS3 IS OVER PRICED BUT IT NO LONGER IS!

1. the ps3 is more difficult to program for. It's harder to accomplish on the ps3 what can be done easily on the 360. regardless of which is more powerful. the ps3 is the reason for the delay. Now, is they couldn't port the game how do you figure they would of been able to accomplish it from scratch?
the game is being ported from 360, to ps3. now, if it was straight to the ps3, there would of been even more problems, but because the 360 version is working, and the kinks were being worked out ahead of time it allowed for an easier transfer to the ps3.
if they didn't have the 360's developing environment to get the game up and running, a lot of the stuff being put into the game would of probably never made it.

sum it up: they couldn't port the game, yet it would have been better if built from scratch? bullshit.

2. No, the consoles were never competing in the format war, as the ps3 is the only one that had a new format included with it. and the only one that actually required a new format.
can the ps3 use it as an advantage? yes. will a person buying a video game system to play video games give a rats ass? probably not.
the format war had no impact on game sales, but game sales had an impact on the format war, if that makes any sense.

3. I'm not talking media compression. I'm talking about disk compression.
a game programmed for a nintendo console will be 1 eighth the size of the same game programmed for a sony or microsoft console.
and that huge size difference isn't because their games have a huge cut in audio quality. you would only save, maybe, 20mb cutting the audio in a game back.

I'm talking about the games compression as a whole, how the whole thing, in it's final form is compressed, untouched, into a smaller file.

again, I'll mention .cso's, or .dax files on the psp. those both compress the games to considerably smaller sizes but can you notice any difference while playing them? not unless your timing the loading times, and spot the second or so longer you have to wait.


also, you didn't even touch on the hardware sales...
that's my main gripe, how vee can CONSTANTLY say the ps3 will outsell the 360, when the 360 is 7 million ahead.
of course the ps3 will pick up some steam, the 360 has already sold 7 million more, the market for it has shrunken considerably. the ps3's market still has atleast 7 million more possible sales than the 360.
but still, the ps3 will NEVER CATCH UP. I really hope vee understands that.
because he sounds like an idiot everytime he says something.

i never mentioned the ps3 outselling the xbox 360 because i dont know if it will, i have only a gut instinct that it might depending on when the xbox releases its new console.

isnt there media in games, Yes
is the media usually compressed, Yes
is there a slight difference in the quality, Yes
does compression matter so much, Not really

and gta4 may have been delayed or wouldve taking longer to make if it was an exclusive, but were not talking about that, you were simply asking whether it wouldve been better, and i couldnt see it being worse.

its not so much whether it was an exclusive, but if the ps3 would have gotten the special attention then it wouldve been better.

IF it was a ps3 exclusive they wouldn't of had the 360 dev enviroment to work the game out in.
getting the game to where it is, and then some, in a difficult platform is not likely at all.
and to say the game would be better if it were coded from scratch on the ps3 is farfetched, they can't even get the current version working right on the ps3...

You had time to write all of that? :blink:

all of what?
it's not that much, they're just complete thoughts, and I took the time to make my point.

I want to make sure vee gets it perfectly clear, and doesn't have the ability to leave one of his dimwitted, has assed responses.

and he hasnt even replied yet... good arguments both of you. i choose not to pick a side, as they are both great systems in my opinion

but, vette, your cso comment. did you ever compress gta vcs to a cso and try to play it? it lags every so often. or maybe it was just my version :-/

yeah, on streaming games you'll get some lag...for the psp.
but with these newer consoles, the compression is has hardly any dent on the performance, it's such a small command compared to the games themselves.

Well, you have all valid points, and for the most part, I support all of it. But no doubt, the PS3 has better hardware, but it doesn't utilize everything it should quite yet. It does in fact take longer to develop on the PS3, but eventually, it will beat the 360 simply because it has a longer console life before the technology becomes obsolete. The 360 will eventually be outdated before the ps3, just as the original xbox was. It will be forced to do this, because there will be a point where games cannot get any better after a certain point on the 360, because of its limiting hardware. I can see this happening in 2-3 maybe even 4 years. But I think Microsoft will just come out with a new and more advanced console before then.

Thus it may force the Sony to develope a new console just to compete with the xbox 360, and then it would of course have an extra year or so like it did this generation, and it will go through the same cycle. Of course a console that comes out later is going to have the advantage to learn from others mistakes.

Although, after all I have stated, I currently like the xbox 360 more, and I own both now... I don't even use the PSN, because its just simply unconvienient, I may fire it up when Home comes out, to test it out... But until then, I have no games worth playing on live, and really only ever play uncharted, and rachet, which I have beaten and haven't played anything since. I have watched a few blu ray movies but I don't have many of them.

The xbox 360 is most definatly the console to own for at the moment, and all of last year, and the year before. They have been the best console for the last 3 years (maybe a bit less, not sure if the 3 year mark has been hit yet.) and I see one more year or so being on the top. And the eventually the PS3 will catch up in titles (hopefully) and it might actually be played. And maybe that next year it could get back on top. But by then, I think the next generation will be brewing, and it wont matter any how.

so, thats my rant, lol just giving my two cents. Nice job looking up fact though Vette, and I look at the games, and I see 5 PS3 titles on the first page compared to 20 games in there... I'm reffering to this chart: http://vgchartz.com/weekly.php by the way. Anyhow, thats my conclusion.

RVA

will the ps3 eventually outperform the 360, gamewise? yes, I never said it wouldn't, would the ps3 eventually outsell the 360? highly unlikely, at the current rate, it will take the ps3 7 years to catch up, and as we already know, sales drop along the consoles lifespan.
and as the ps3 current 20 thousand a week lead shrinks the time it takes will lengthen for the ps3 to catch up.


also, microsoft is talking with sony to release a blu-ray addon, or possibly a "premium" blu-ray 360.
I figured I'd mention it before vee comes in saying "lolz PWNED! I won teh arguments"
because, like I said before, I'm never argued against blu-ray as a format.

Seeing as you've written an essay, its going to take me some time to reply and gather the facts that are necessary;

Well by that logic, anything thats in the lead will win. Which isnt true. PS3 can catch up.

Heres the most simple way to explain why the PS3 will catch up, so listen:

Hardware wise, PS3 is ahead of its time. By some quite some way, it has the future format, processing power ect to allow it to survive for the next 10 years. Juxtaposed to that, 360 doesnt. DVD is becoming redundant and is limiting everything. Can you see the 360 in 10 years time? I cant, but i sure as hell can see the PS3.

I cant find the exact article. But the Capcom mentioned that the compression of the textures on the 360 version lead to bigger loading times and less detailed textures. I'll find the article asap.

Burnout Paradise runs better on the PS3, as it doesnt have the lagg times and screen tearing that the 360 has due to the extra work it needs to do with the compressed game.

You want me to pull out disk facts? None of the PS3 exclusives to have come out, would fit onto a DVD. With what ever compression you want. This is fully uncompressed audio (sounds better) and uncompressed videos ( looks better). If you dont believe me, i can pull out the articles.

Why can Criteion develop a Burnout for both 360 and PS3 and release them on time, indentically? Because they didnt faf about with the 360 version. They built the PS3 one then ported it. Its PROVEN that thats easier. Its illogical to port from weaker to stronger. So, why cant R* do it?

They've stupidly spent the majority of the time developing for the weaker console, as they had their hands on it earlier. So they could start work earlier. Due to this, they've had to give a bollocks version to the far superior console and just to take the piss, they havent taken into account that their dealing with a new console, that needs to be learnt.

MORON. HALF THE FEATURES THEY COULD HAVE IMPLEMENTED IN THE GAME, THEY WOULDNT BE ABLE TO DO BECAUSE OF THE SHITTY DVD SPACE RESTRICTIONS.

Face it, all PS3 exclusives seem to come out far more superior gameplay wise, then multiplatform games. Due to them being able to harness the power of the PS3. (Uncharted, Warhawk, HS ect).

Dealing with it early on > dealing with it near release date.

Sure. Extra Space. Extra Power. Better Console.

O RLY?
If GTAIV was developed solely for the PS3, it would have uncompressed audio and HDMI 1.2. So no, it wouldnt have fitted on a DVD.

I'd love to; Blu-Ray = 50GB dual layer. DVD = 8.54GB's dual layer.
PS3 = More Powerful 360 = Less powerful

You said you didnt want me to mention Blu-Ray. Thats a huge reason why the PS3 is that much better. Its like me telling you to tell me how much more reliable a 360 is then a PS3. Haha.

Imagine this, if GTAIV was exactly the same as the game we're getting on March 29th, but it was just on Blu-Ray, just for PS3. Then not only would it have MORE in it (eg. more radio stations, more space for scripted cutscenes, better sounding audio, true high definition ect.) Those are just the minor stuff, that they could chuck in. Your forgetting, GTAIV could have been twice as large if they really wanted to.

EDIT:

LOLPWNEDZ!